If I have a C128 is there any need for a C64?

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

I owned a C64 like many back in the day, was just wondering, other than the collecting standpoint if I were to aquire a C128 first would there be any practical reason to still get a C64 afterwards? THANKS.

[Rybags]

Not really.

 

Apparently there was the odd program that inadvertently overwrote the VIC control register that handles CPU speed and caused problems but those sorts of things would have been resolved decades ago.

 

But, so far as hardware mods and upgrades go - not sure if all of them will work on the 128.

 

If you're just planning to play games with it, then may as well buy one and forget the other.

[nathanallan]

The 128 had complete backwards compatibility with the 64. So yeah, I guess if you had a 128, the 64 would no longer be necessary. I'm trying to think of something that the 64 had over the 128 and can't.

 

Nathan

[2600Lives]

Just make sure you boot the 128 in 64 mode, and it should do everything the original 64 could do. Even the Magic Voice should work properly.

[lhfreak]

I still have my 128 from the day and there IS one game that didn't work on it. I can't remember the name, but it was by SSI. The game just wouldn't load on it no matter what. It DID work on my friends C64 though. I'm thinking it was called Gemstone Healer or something like that.

 

Other than that, I would say there is no reason to get a C64 if you already have a 128.

[+remowilliams]

Just make sure you boot the 128 in 64 mode, and it should do everything the original 64 could do

Pretty much. I even just tried it recently with my 1541 Ultimate and it worked like a charm.

[nathanallan]

All that said, I would still keep the 64 to be able to network them over the round serial ports they use. If you have both, use them both. If you had to choose I'd get a 128.

 

The c64 mode is like having an upgraded c64 witht eh extra ram and sound chip.

 

Nathan

[Ze_ro]

The c64 mode is like having an upgraded c64 witht eh extra ram and sound chip.

Eh? There's no extra sound chip in the 128. In fact, some of the most extreme hardcore will tell you that the SID chip that was put in the 128 (and some later 64's I think) was slightly inferior for one reason or another... but I can't tell the difference. Also, I don't think the extra RAM in the 128 is easily accessible in 64 mode.

 

I've used a C128 for over 10 years instead of a 64, and I've never had any problem, nor wanted to hook up one of my 64's instead.

 

--Zero

[shadow460]

I still have my 128 from the day and there IS one game that didn't work on it. I can't remember the name, but it was by SSI. The game just wouldn't load on it no matter what. It DID work on my friends C64 though. I'm thinking it was called Gemstone Healer or something like that.

 

Other than that, I would say there is no reason to get a C64 if you already have a 128.

 

Gemstone Warrior, perhaps?

[lhfreak]

I still have my 128 from the day and there IS one game that didn't work on it. I can't remember the name, but it was by SSI. The game just wouldn't load on it no matter what. It DID work on my friends C64 though. I'm thinking it was called Gemstone Healer or something like that.

 

Other than that, I would say there is no reason to get a C64 if you already have a 128.

 

Gemstone Warrior, perhaps?

 

 

YES...thats it! Thanks! I even took back the first one I bought and exchanged it because I thought it was the disk itself that had a screw up in manufacturing.....nope....the new one didn't work either.....only on an original 64 would it work.

[Artlover]

There was some obscure little music demo that doesn't work right on a C-128 in C64 mode either. Can't remember the name of it tho.

 

If you boot in C64 mode (hold C= key down while powering up), you didn't have access to any of the extra memory or anything, it was in theory exactly like a real C64. If you powered up to C128 mode then did a GO64 command, it would go into C64 mode, but leave a couple of port registers open so you could backdoor into things like the VDC memory. Wasn't very practical beyond novelty (tho I recall there was a VDC ramdisk wedge for the C64 mode). Eitherway you still have the rare compatability issues.

 

As far as the sounds goes. It's not so much a difference between the 6581 & 8580 Sid chips as much as it was the filter values used on the C128 mobo's. That's not to say there aren't differences, but they are generaly insignifigant in any real world use. Only signifigant difference is Vdd voltage. 12v on C64, 9v on C-128/C64C. Despite this you can still drop a 6581 on the C128/C64C mobo and it will work. As a matter of fact, many C-128's came with 6581's from CBM. (Tho you can't put a 8580 in a regular C64 for long before it fails and takes the VIC and stuff out with it).

 

C-128's (atleast all mine) suffer from the same infamous sparkle problem alot of C64's suffered from.

 

All in all, to be honest, C-128 is probably enough. I have both and still went to the 128 first all the time. But if you come across a regular old style C64 for cheap, it probably wouldn't hurt to snag it.

[Tempest]

I still have my 128 from the day and there IS one game that didn't work on it. I can't remember the name, but it was by SSI. The game just wouldn't load on it no matter what. It DID work on my friends C64 though. I'm thinking it was called Gemstone Healer or something like that.

 

Other than that, I would say there is no reason to get a C64 if you already have a 128.

 

Gemstone Warrior, perhaps?

 

 

YES...thats it! Thanks! I even took back the first one I bought and exchanged it because I thought it was the disk itself that had a screw up in manufacturing.....nope....the new one didn't work either.....only on an original 64 would it work.

Actually there is a Gemstone Healer as well. Gemstone Warrior was the first game, Gemstone Healer was the sequel.

 

Tempest

[R.Cade]

There are a few games that don't work on the 128 because some extra 128 registers are exposed that are trampled on "accidentally" by programmers. I'm not sure anyone has ever made a list or done any fixes because there are very few.

 

Another one I know doesn't work is "Scrolls of Abadon".

Edited October 6, 2008 by R.Cade

[lhfreak]

I still have my 128 from the day and there IS one game that didn't work on it. I can't remember the name, but it was by SSI. The game just wouldn't load on it no matter what. It DID work on my friends C64 though. I'm thinking it was called Gemstone Healer or something like that.

 

Other than that, I would say there is no reason to get a C64 if you already have a 128.

 

Gemstone Warrior, perhaps?

 

 

YES...thats it! Thanks! I even took back the first one I bought and exchanged it because I thought it was the disk itself that had a screw up in manufacturing.....nope....the new one didn't work either.....only on an original 64 would it work.

Actually there is a Gemstone Healer as well. Gemstone Warrior was the first game, Gemstone Healer was the sequel.

 

Tempest

 

You are absolutely correct....It IS Gemstone Warrior that I had...I never bought the sequal because I couldnt play the first one and anyway, it may not work either!

[Video]

Doesn't the c=128 have some extra hardware goodies (like a 3.5 drive and maybe a hard disc?) Just thinking. Though that wouldn't interfere with the 64 mode.

 

I always thought it shoule have had a manual switch to tell it to always boot in 128 or in 64, rather than the key, cause honestly, I don't think I have a single 128 spacific game or app, so I always used the 64 mode. (of course3, I had a 64, so who cared?)

 

Oh, does the 128 have a cart port, and will it work with 64 games? I was wondering cause you basically plug the cart in and turnt he system on, and wondered if tyhat caused problems cause the system was already on and changed to 64 on the 128

[Artlover]

Doesn't the c=128 have some extra hardware goodies (like a 3.5 drive and maybe a hard disc?) Just thinking. Though that wouldn't interfere with the 64 mode.

Nope. The stuff is not computer specific, only cbm serial port specific. You can use a 1581 3.5" drive on a Vic-20 if you want.

 

Only differences was the C-128 version of the serial port made use of a formerly unused serial line that could be taken advantage of by things like the 1571 & 1581 drives for faster speed if you used a serial cable that had all the pins wired. If drives that could use it didn't see it, they just worked in normal speed. Same with the CMD HDD's and stuff.

 

Oh, does the 128 have a cart port, and will it work with 64 games? I was wondering cause you basically plug the cart in and turnt he system on, and wondered if tyhat caused problems cause the system was already on and changed to 64 on the 128

Yes it has a cart port. No, it doesn't cause problems. If it's a C64 cart, it comes up in C64 mode.

[Ze_ro]

Only differences was the C-128 version of the serial port made use of a formerly unused serial line that could be taken advantage of by things like the 1571 & 1581 drives for faster speed if you used a serial cable that had all the pins wired. If drives that could use it didn't see it, they just worked in normal speed. Same with the CMD HDD's and stuff.

When you hook a 1571 to a regular C64, it defaults to running in 1541 emulation mode... but there is a command you can send to the drive that puts it back in 1571 mode. I don't recall if this allows burst transfers, but at the very least, you do gain the ability to read double sided disks.

 

--Zero

[Artlover]

When you hook a 1571 to a regular C64, it defaults to running in 1541 emulation mode... but there is a command you can send to the drive that puts it back in 1571 mode.

OPEN 15,8,15,"U0>M1":CLOSE15

 

I don't recall if this allows burst transfers, but at the very least, you do gain the ability to read double sided disks.

In theory, burst should be possible on the 64/1571. There was a nifty little C64 fastload wedge for the 1581 that enabled burst transfers. Did something to software emulate burst mode hardware timings or something to that effect. Don't quite remember the details, been a few years. It was fast as shit tho. Only worked with the 1581 tho.

[thrax]

Re: Gemstone Warrior

 

I had both the games (Warrior and Healer) for the apple II and my Gemstone Warrior was defective. I kept exchanging it with the store multiple times before I got a working copy. No other software i bought at the time did i have to exchange that many times. I wouldn't use that one game which had software problems on multiple platforms as a the sole reason not to persue it.

PS the game itself was good when it finally worked but the sequel wasn't worth it.