UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Cute,Not quite what I was expecting Um, it said stitched together schematics of the 600XL (comprised of the publicly available 11 page schematics put together by Jerzy, consolidated into one image document)....What were you expecting, to be sucked into the computer like in 'Lawnmower Man' or something? =) You must be thinking 'BREADBOX', that would be the 'Commodore SX64'... ha. (neat little box, I always wondered what incompetent marketer decided to label it "Commodore SUCKS64"... could only have been worse if it was '64SX'... ha... Commodore themselves were their own worst enemy). I guess that you must be talking about general future upgrade plans, and that's fine, but they should go into the '(Re)Build an Atari' thread... this way we keep everything in a place that will make it easier to find later, when we need it. It will also keep this thread easier to follow for 600X development. Once we begin getting somewhere, I'll start a separate thread for 600X-specific upgrades, but for now, just put them in (Re)Build Atari, with a mention of future 600X compatibility built into the design. I would like to see any Atari System schematics (from Atari themselves), besides the 400/800 which are in the Hardware Manual. If you do scan them, please make sure that they are scanned at a very hi-resolution. Schematics become nearly possible to read if they are too lo-res. Feel free to post them in this thread, since it will be helpful with reverse engineering the 600XL. In the mean time, anyone interested in contributing to the 600X project can work on modifying existing upgrades, to make them work with the 600XL, since this will be our base machine for compatibility purposes. It would be good to have a well-defined list of 600XL upgrades, as well. I'm going to start another thread for pre-existing 600XL-specific upgrades. This way it won't get too cluttered in here. Did anyone total up those yellow #s on the color image yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Status Update: Completed Component List from Page 1 of the Schematics. More to follow, stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 OK, pages 1-4 of Jerzy's schematics have been directly transcribed to the component list. Feel free to add any descriptions or notes of importance to the IC numbers & component values, and re-post them, so they may be integrated into the final document. ========================================================= ATARI 600XL COMPONENT LIST: ========================================================= RESISTORS --------------------------------------------------------- R1: 1K PAGE 2 R2: 1K PAGE 2 R3: 3K PAGE 2 R4: 3K PAGE 2 R5: 3K PAGE 4 R6: 3k PAGE 1 R7: 3K PAGE 1 R8: 3k PAGE 1 R9: 3k PAGE 1 R10: R11: R12: R13: R14: R15: R16: R17: R18: ?33 PAGE 4 R19: 33 PAGE 4 R20: 33 PAGE 4 R21: 33 PAGE 4 R22: 33 PAGE 4 R23: 33 PAGE 4 R24: ?33 PAGE 4 R25: ?33 PAGE 4 R26: R27: R28: R29: R30: R31: R32: R33: R34: 3k PAGE 1 R35: 3k PAGE 1 R36: 33 PAGE 4 R37: 3K PAGE 4 R38: 33 PAGE 4 R39: R40: 33k PAGE 3 R41: 680 PAGE 3 R42: 1k PAGE 3 R43: .5M R44: R45: R46: R47: !27 PAGE 1 also separately labed as 470 R48: 100 PAGE 1 R49: 220 PAGE 1 R50: 100 PAGE 1 R51: 7k5 PAGE 1 R52: R53: 1k PAGE 3 R54: 1k PAGE 3 R55: 1k PAGE 3 R56: 1k PAGE 3 R57: 1k PAGE 3 R58: R59: 1k6 PAGE 3 R60: 36k PAGE 3 R61: R62: R63: 18k PAGE 3 R64: 9k1 PAGE 3 R65: 4k7 PAGE 3 R66: 750 PAGE 3 R67: R68: R69: R70: R71: 470 PAGE 1 R72: R73: R74: R75: R76: R77: R78: R79: R80: R81: R82: R83: R84: R85: R86: R87: R88: R89: R90: R91: R92: R93: R94: R95: R96: R97: 1k PAGE 3 R98: R99: R100: R101: R102: R103: R104: R105: R106: R107: R108: R109: R110: R111: R112: R113: R114: R115: R116: R117: R118: 6k8 PAGE 1 R119: 10k PAGE 1 R120: 1k PAGE 1 R121: 4k7 PAGE 1 R122: R123: 100 PAGE 3 R124: 75 PAGE 3 R125: 1k2 PAGE 3 R126: 10k PAGE 3 R127: 2k PAGE 3 R128: 6k2 PAGE 3 R129: 1k PAGE 3 R130: 2K2 PAGE 3 R131: 1k PAGE 3 R132: R133: 3k3 PAGE 3 R134: 10k PAGE 3 R135: 240 PAGE 3 R136: 100 PAGE 3 R137: 75 PAGE 3 R138: 3k PAGE 3 R139: R140: 10k PAGE 3 R141: 4k7 R142: R143: R144: R145: R146: R147: R148: R149: R150: --------------------------------------------------------- CAPACITORS --------------------------------------------------------- C1: C2: C3: C4: C5: C6: C7: C8: C9: C10: C11: C12: C13: C14: C15: C16: .1 PAGE 2 C17: .1 PAGE 2 C18: .1 PAGE 2 C19: .1 PAGE 2 C20: .1 PAGE 2 C21: C22: C23: C24: C25: C26: C27: C28: C29: .1 PAGE 1 C30: .1 PAGE 1 C31: C32: C33: C34: C35: .1 PAGE 4 C36: C37: C38: .1 PAGE 3 C39: 68pF PAGE 3 C40: 220pF PAGE 3 C41: .001 PAGE 3 C42: .001 PAGE 3 C43: C44: C45: C46: .1 PAGE 4 C47: C48: .1 PAGE 1 also appears on PAGE 3 C49: C50: C51: C52: C53: C54: C55: C56: C57: C58: C59: C60: C61: C62: C63: C64: C65: C66: C67: C68: C69: C70: C71: C72: C73: C74: C75: C76: C77: C78: C79: C80: C81: C82: C83: C84: C85: C86: C87: C88: C89: C90: C91: C92: C93: C94: C95: C96: C97: C98: C99: C100: C101: C102: C103: C104: 820pF PAGE 1 C105: .1 PAGE 1 C106: 22pF PAGE 1 C107: 56pF C108: C109: 180pF PAGE 3 C110: 100Pf PAGE 3 C111: 3P9 PAGE 3 C112: 1nF PAGE 3 C113: 100pF PAGE 3 C114: C115: 10uF PAGE 3 C116: C117: C118: C119: C120: C121: C122: C123: C124: C125: --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- L1: PAGE 1 L2: L3: L4: L5: L6: L7: L8: L9: L10: L11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 L12: PAGE 3 L13: 100uH PAGE 3 L14: 820uH PAGE 3 --------------------------------------------------------- CONNECTORS --------------------------------------------------------- J1: J2: J3: J4: J5: J6: J7: J8: J9: J10: --------------------------------------------------------- ICs --------------------------------------------------------- U1: 74LS138 PAGE 2 U2: PAL16L8 PAGE 2 U3: OS ROM PAGE 2 U4: BASIC PAGE 2 U5: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U6: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U7C: 74LS08 U8: U9: ANTIC PAGE 1 U10: SALLY-6502 PAGE 1 U11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 U11: 4416 PAGE 4 *U11 APPEARS TWICE U12: 4416 PAGE 4 U13: CO60472 PAGE 4 U14A: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U14F: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U15A: LS375 PAGE 4 U15B: LS375B PAGE 4 U16: XLLS51 PAGE 4 U17: GTIA PAGE 3 U18A: 74LS08 PAGE 1 U18B: LS08 PAGE 1 u18B: 74S32 PAGE 4 *U18b APPEARS TWICE U18C: 74S32 PAGE 4 U18D: 74LS08 PAGE 3 U19: 4050 U20: U21: U22: U23: U24: 74LS74 PAGE 1 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Q1: Q2: PAGE 1 Q3: PAGE 1 Q4: Q5: 2N3904 PAGE 1 Q6: PAGE 3 Q7: Q8: PAGE 3 Q9: PAGE 3 Q10: Q11: Q12: Q13: Q14: Q15: Q16: Q17: Q18: Q19: Q20: --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Y1: PAGE 1 Y2: PAGE 1 ========================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Disregard the above codebox, here is the updated component list draft, covering pages 1-9 of the schematics. The RF modulator (pages 10,11) has not been transcribed yet, but I'm done for today. Take a look through it & add notes. ========================================================= ATARI 600XL COMPONENT LIST: ========================================================= RESISTORS --------------------------------------------------------- R1: 1K PAGE 2 R2: 1K PAGE 2 R3: 3K PAGE 2 R4: 3K PAGE 2 R5: 3K PAGE 4 R6: 3k PAGE 1 R7: 3K PAGE 1 R8: 3k PAGE 1 R9: 3k PAGE 1 R10: 10k PAGE 5 R11: 10k PAGE 5 R12: 10k PAGE 5 R13: 10k PAGE 5 R14: 10k PAGE 5 R15: 10k PAGE 5 R16: 10k PAGE 5 R17: 10k PAGE 5 R18: ?33 PAGE 4 R19: 33 PAGE 4 R20: 33 PAGE 4 R21: 33 PAGE 4 R22: 33 PAGE 4 R23: 33 PAGE 4 R24: ?33 PAGE 4 R25: ?33 PAGE 4 R26: ................... R27: ................... R28: ................... R29: ................... R30: ................... R31: ................... R32: ................... R33: ................... R34: 3k PAGE 1 R35: 3k PAGE 1 R36: 33 PAGE 4 R37: 3K PAGE 4 R38: 33 PAGE 4 R39: ................... R40: 33k PAGE 3 R41: 680 PAGE 3 R42: 1k PAGE 3 R43: .5M R44: 56k PAGE 8 R45: 100 PAGE 8 R46: ................... R47: !27 PAGE 1 also exists as 470 R48: 100 PAGE 1 R49: 220 PAGE 1 R50: 100 PAGE 1 R51: 7k5 PAGE 1 R52: 1k PAGE 6 R53: 1k PAGE 3 R54: 1k PAGE 3 R55: 1k PAGE 3 R56: 1k PAGE 3 R57: 1k PAGE 3 R58: 3k PAGE 6 R59: 1k6 PAGE 3 R60: 36k PAGE 3 R61: ................... R62: ................... R63: 18k PAGE 3 R64: 9k1 PAGE 3 R65: 4k7 PAGE 3 R66: 750 PAGE 3 R67: ................... R68: 3k PAGE 6 R69: 1K8 PAGE 6 R70: 1K8 PAGE 6 R71: 470 PAGE 1 ALSO APPEARS AS: 1K8 PAGE 6 R72: 1K8 PAGE 6 R73: 4k7 PAGE 6 R74: 4k7 PAGE 6 R75: 4k7 PAGE 6 R76: 4k7 PAGE 6 R77: 3k PAGE 5 R78: 3k PAGE 5 R79: 3k PAGE 5 R80: 2k7 PAGE 5 R81: 2k7 PAGE 5 also appears as 4k7 PAGE 6 R82: 4k7 PAGE 5 R83: 4k7 PAGE 5 R84: 3k PAGE 5 R85: ................... R86: ................... R87: ................... R88: ................... R89: ................... R90: ................... R91: ................... R92: ................... R93: ................... R94: R95: 220 PAGE 9 R96: ................... R97: 1k PAGE 3 also appears as 47k PAGE 6 R98: 47K PAGE 6 R99: 100 PAGE 6 R100: ................... R101: ................... R102: ................... R103: ................... R104: ................... R105: ................... R106: R107: 68k PAGE 8 R108: ................... R109: 2K7 PAGE 8 R110: 6K2 PAGE 8 R111: ................... R112: ................... R113: ................... R114: 5k1 PAGE 8 R115: ................... R116: ................... R117: ................... R118: 6k8 PAGE 1 R119: 10k PAGE 1 R120: 1k PAGE 1 R121: 4k7 PAGE 1 R122: 1k PAGE 8 R123: 100 PAGE 3 R124: 75 PAGE 3 R125: 1k2 PAGE 3 R126: 10k PAGE 3 R127: 2k PAGE 3 R128: 6k2 PAGE 3 R129: 1k PAGE 3 R130: 2K2 PAGE 3 R131: 1k PAGE 3 R132: ................... R133: 3k3 PAGE 3 R134: 10k PAGE 3 R135: 240 PAGE 3 R136: 100 PAGE 3 R137: 75 PAGE 3 R138: 3k PAGE 3 R139: ................... R140: 10k PAGE 3 R141: 4k7 R142: ................... R143: ................... R144: ................... R145: ................... R146: ................... R147: ................... R148: ................... R149: ................... R150: ................... --------------------------------------------------------- CAPACITORS --------------------------------------------------------- C1: 22uF PAGE 8 C2: .1 PAGE 8 C3: 1nF PAGE 8 C4: 1nF PAGE 8 C5: 10nF PAGE 8 C6: 22uf PAGE 8 C7: 1nF PAGE 8 C8: 10nF PAGE 8 C9: 1nF PAGE 8 C10: 1nF PAGE 8 C11: 1nF PAGE 8 C12: 1nF PAGE 8 C13: 22nF PAGE 8 C14: .1 PAGE 8 C15: 1nF PAGE 8 C16: .1 PAGE 2 C17: .1 PAGE 2 C18: .1 PAGE 2 C19: .1 PAGE 2 C20: .1 PAGE 2 C21: ................... C22: ................... C23: ................... C24: ................... C25: ................... C26: ................... C27: ................... C28: ................... C29: .1 PAGE 1 C30: .1 PAGE 1 C31: ................... C32: ................... C33: ................... C34: ................... C35: .1 PAGE 4 C36: ................... C37: ................... C38: .1 PAGE 3 C39: 68pF PAGE 3 C40: 220pF PAGE 3 C41: .001 PAGE 3 C42: .001 PAGE 3 C43: ................... C44: 47uF PAGE 8 C45: ................... C46: .1 PAGE 4 C47: ................... C48: .1 PAGE 1 also appears on PAGE 3 C49: ................... C50: .047 PAGE 6 C51: .047 PAGE 6 C52: .001 PAGE 6 C53: .001 PAGE 6 C54: .047 PAGE 6 C55: .047 PAGE 6 C56: .001 PAGE 6 C57: .001 PAGE 6 C58: ................... C59: ................... C60: .1 PAGE 5 C61: 1nF PAGE 8 C62: ................... C63: ................... C64: 22uF PAGE 5 C65: .0001 PAGE 5 C66: .0001 PAGE 5 C67: .0001 PAGE 5 C68: .0001 PAGE 5 C69: .0001 PAGE 5 C70: .0001 PAGE 5 C71: .0001 PAGE 5 C72: .0001 PAGE 5 C73: .0001 PAGE 5 C74: .0001 PAGE 5 C75: .0001 PAGE 5 C76: .0001 PAGE 5 C77: .0001 PAGE 5 C78: ................... C79: ................... C80: ................... C81: ................... C82: .1 PAGE 6 C83: 10uF PAGE 6 C84: ................... C85: ................... C86: ................... C87: 1nF PAGE 6 C88: 1nF PAGE 6 C89: 1nF PAGE 6 C90: 1nF PAGE 6 C91: 1nF PAGE 6 C92: .1 PAGE 6 C93: .1 PAGE 9 C94: ................... C95: 470mF PAGE 8 C96: ................... C97: ................... C98: .047 PAGE 8 C99: ................... C100: ................... C101: ................... C102: ................... C103: 4U7 PAGE 8 C104: 820pF PAGE 1 C105: .1 PAGE 1 C106: 22pF PAGE 1 C107: 56pF C108: ................... C109: 180pF PAGE 3 C110: 100Pf PAGE 3 C111: 3P9 PAGE 3 C112: 1nF PAGE 3 C113: 100pF PAGE 3 C114: ................... C115: 10uF PAGE 3 C116: ................... C117: ................... C118: ................... C119: ................... C120: ................... C121: ................... C122: ................... C123: ................... C124: ................... C125: ................... --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- L1: PAGE 1 L2: ................... L3: ................... L4: ................... L5: ................... L6: ?10uH PAGE 5 L7: 10uH PAGE 5 L8: PAGE 9 L9: 10uH PAGE 6 L10: ................... L11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 L12: PAGE 3 L13: 100uH PAGE 3 L14: 820uH PAGE 3 --------------------------------------------------------- CONNECTORS --------------------------------------------------------- J1: SIO PORT PAGE 9 J2: ................... J3: ................... J4: PAGE 8 J5: JOYSTICK DB9M PAGE 9 J6: JOYSTICK DB9M PAGE 9 J7: MONITOR PORT PAGE 9 J8: ................... J9: ................... J10: ................... --------------------------------------------------------- ICs --------------------------------------------------------- U1: 74LS138 PAGE 2 U2: PAL16L8 PAGE 2 U3: OS ROM PAGE 2 U4: BASIC PAGE 2 U5: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U6: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U7C: 74LS08 U8B: LM358 PAGE 8 U9: ANTIC PAGE 1 U10: SALLY-6502 PAGE 1 U11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 U11: 4416 PAGE 4 *U11 APPEARS TWICE U12: 4416 PAGE 4 U13: CO60472 PAGE 4 U14A: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U14F: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U15A: LS375 PAGE 4 U15B: LS375B PAGE 4 U16: XLLS51 PAGE 4 U17: GTIA PAGE 3 U17B: 74LS14 PAGE 8 U17C: 74LS14 PAGE 8 U18A: 74LS08 PAGE 1 U18B: LS08 PAGE 1 u18B: 74S32 PAGE 4 *U18b APPEARS TWICE U18C: 74S32 PAGE 4 U18D: 74LS08 PAGE 3 U19: 4050 U20: POKEY PAGE 6 U21: PIA PAGE 5 U22: 4051 PAGE 6 U23: 4051 PAGE 6 U24: 74LS74 PAGE 1 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Q1: ................... Q2: PAGE 1 Q3: PAGE 1 Q4: ................... Q5: 2N3904 PAGE 1 Q6: PAGE 3 Q7: ................... Q8: PAGE 3 Q9: PAGE 3 Q10: ................... Q11: ................... Q12: ................... Q13: ................... Q14: ................... Q15: ................... Q16: ................... Q17: ................... Q18: ................... Q19: ................... Q20: ................... --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- D1: LED PAGE 7 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- S1: POWER SWTCH PAGE 8 --------------------------------------------------------- CR3: PAGE 8 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- W1: PAGE 6 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Y1: PAGE 1 Y2: PAGE 1 ========================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 This is awesome UNIXcoffee928! Something that I'd be interested in building on a breadboard... Though... I'd still like to make it a full project and breadboard Antic, Pokey and GTIA... Are the schematics for those chips available anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 To clarify my last post: Not for your project UnixCoffee... But on my end for myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Yes, the chipset schematics are available. I have them archived, I'll have to dig them out & post them From what I remember about them, POKEY was the only one that was not very clear, because it was a handwritten schematic. I will warn you that the complexity of such an undertaking might be a bit, um... daunting. each of the chips themselves will end up taking up quite a bit of table-space, so you will need to prepare a work area SPECIFICALLY for doing the bread-boarding. My suggestion would be to do one IC at a time, beginning with the POKEY, since as far as I recall, this IC is the one that was giving everyone trouble, because it is handwritten. Even if you were to only do the POKEY, I think that it would be a huge milestone. People could then accurately apply your work to a FPGA description language, so we can have multi-POKEYS on one FPGA. & that would be REALLY cool! If you were to breadboard out each of the IC's, then the FPGA hackers here could put them all on one FPGA. The effect of such an undertaking would be nothing short of amazing... I will start a separate thread, right now, entitled, " POKEY on a Breadboard". While I'm at it, I'll make "ANTIC on a Breadboard" , "GTIA on a Breadboard ", "PIA on a Breadboard ", & "SALLY on a Breadboard " threads as well. They should be kept separate, so the threads don't get convoluted. I'd like you, dwhyte, to take over those threads from there, so I can stay focused here. I highly recommend the 'Context' text editor for the PC. It is highly configurable, and allows for both horizontal & VERTICAL selection of text for cut copy & paste. It is a breeze to create "syntax highlighters' for anything that you are working on, and you can set different fonts, colors, & setups based on file-type. It is also very easy to use as a drop in replacement for Notepad, so you can output directly from your Atari emulator's Printer port, right into a new file TAB in 'Context'. Since I was working in Windoze when I created the list, I used the Atari800Win emulator to do my scripting to automate my numbering. I thought that it was only right to Make the New Atari from an Atari...ha. Here's the short BASIC program I wrote that will automagically generate a textfile with consecutive numbering for Atari hardware components (just vertically select, cut & paste with Context, when building your file): 10 OPEN #3,8,O,"P:" 15 FOR X=1 TO 150 20 PRINT #3;"R";X;":","C";X;":" 25 NEXT X:? #3 30 FOR X=1 TO 15 40 PRINT #3;"L";X;":","J";X;":","Y";X;":" 45 NEXT X:? #3 55 FOR X=1 TO 25 60 PRINT #3;"U";X;":","Q";X;":" 65 NEXT X 90 CLOSE #3 The Atari emulator is actually very handy for doing little chores like that. From there on, you are just transcribing values from the schematics to the textfile. Best of Luck with this, we are kinda 'taking the bull by the horns' by taking such a brute-force reverse-engineering initiative. All of this work will totally make new stuff happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 What memory amount you plan on using? People have using 512K on a single chip and someone of been able to wire in SIMMs into an Atari system. Either is possible through the PIA chip, with a FREDDIE, would gain separate ANTIC access and be compatible with 130XE software. You could make a more compact system either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Just to be sure, is your atari going to look like this?: If you're goal is to put an atari on an FPGA (I assume), then is this stage really necessary? Are FPGA development-tools not the easier way to go? When I designed something (long time ago...) and needed lots of logic IC's, I just put the thing on a microcontroller (would be an FPGA in your case), saving me a lot of soldering and buying components etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Aren't there emulators available that makes the FPGA dev process easier? Something like Antic shouldn't be too much trouble to debug... the only outputs it generates are Refresh, AN0-AN2, RDY, and (by proxy) the PMG Data which appears on the bus at the correct time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Aren't there emulators available that makes the FPGA dev process easier? mmh... If emulator source code could be translated to VHDL source code... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward1469 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Here's an Updated page 2 there were Several Errors on Jerzy's Drawing: OK, pages 1-4 of Jerzy's schematics have been directly transcribed to the component list. Feel free to add any descriptions or notes of importance to the IC numbers & component values, and re-post them, so they may be integrated into the final document. ========================================================= ATARI 600XL COMPONENT LIST: ========================================================= RESISTORS --------------------------------------------------------- R1: 1K PAGE 2 R2: 1K PAGE 2 R3: 3K PAGE 2 R4: 3K PAGE 2 R5: 3K PAGE 4 R6: 3k PAGE 1 R7: 3K PAGE 1 R8: 3k PAGE 1 R9: 3k PAGE 1 R10: R11: R12: R13: R14: R15: R16: R17: R18: ?33 PAGE 4 R19: 33 PAGE 4 R20: 33 PAGE 4 R21: 33 PAGE 4 R22: 33 PAGE 4 R23: 33 PAGE 4 R24: ?33 PAGE 4 R25: ?33 PAGE 4 R26: R27: R28: R29: R30: R31: R32: R33: R34: 3k PAGE 1 R35: 3k PAGE 1 R36: 33 PAGE 4 R37: 3K PAGE 4 R38: 33 PAGE 4 R39: R40: 33k PAGE 3 R41: 680 PAGE 3 R42: 1k PAGE 3 R43: .5M R44: R45: R46: R47: !27 PAGE 1 also separately labed as 470 R48: 100 PAGE 1 R49: 220 PAGE 1 R50: 100 PAGE 1 R51: 7k5 PAGE 1 R52: R53: 1k PAGE 3 R54: 1k PAGE 3 R55: 1k PAGE 3 R56: 1k PAGE 3 R57: 1k PAGE 3 R58: R59: 1k6 PAGE 3 R60: 36k PAGE 3 R61: R62: R63: 18k PAGE 3 R64: 9k1 PAGE 3 R65: 4k7 PAGE 3 R66: 750 PAGE 3 R67: R68: R69: R70: R71: 470 PAGE 1 R72: R73: R74: R75: R76: R77: R78: R79: R80: R81: R82: R83: R84: R85: R86: R87: R88: R89: R90: R91: R92: R93: R94: R95: R96: R97: 1k PAGE 3 R98: R99: R100: R101: R102: R103: R104: R105: R106: R107: R108: R109: R110: R111: R112: R113: R114: R115: R116: R117: R118: 6k8 PAGE 1 R119: 10k PAGE 1 R120: 1k PAGE 1 R121: 4k7 PAGE 1 R122: R123: 100 PAGE 3 R124: 75 PAGE 3 R125: 1k2 PAGE 3 R126: 10k PAGE 3 R127: 2k PAGE 3 R128: 6k2 PAGE 3 R129: 1k PAGE 3 R130: 2K2 PAGE 3 R131: 1k PAGE 3 R132: R133: 3k3 PAGE 3 R134: 10k PAGE 3 R135: 240 PAGE 3 R136: 100 PAGE 3 R137: 75 PAGE 3 R138: 3k PAGE 3 R139: R140: 10k PAGE 3 R141: 4k7 R142: R143: R144: R145: R146: R147: R148: R149: R150: --------------------------------------------------------- CAPACITORS --------------------------------------------------------- C1: C2: C3: C4: C5: C6: C7: C8: C9: C10: C11: C12: C13: C14: C15: C16: .1 PAGE 2 C17: .1 PAGE 2 C18: .1 PAGE 2 C19: .1 PAGE 2 C20: .1 PAGE 2 C21: C22: C23: C24: C25: C26: C27: C28: C29: .1 PAGE 1 C30: .1 PAGE 1 C31: C32: C33: C34: C35: .1 PAGE 4 C36: C37: C38: .1 PAGE 3 C39: 68pF PAGE 3 C40: 220pF PAGE 3 C41: .001 PAGE 3 C42: .001 PAGE 3 C43: C44: C45: C46: .1 PAGE 4 C47: C48: .1 PAGE 1 also appears on PAGE 3 C49: C50: C51: C52: C53: C54: C55: C56: C57: C58: C59: C60: C61: C62: C63: C64: C65: C66: C67: C68: C69: C70: C71: C72: C73: C74: C75: C76: C77: C78: C79: C80: C81: C82: C83: C84: C85: C86: C87: C88: C89: C90: C91: C92: C93: C94: C95: C96: C97: C98: C99: C100: C101: C102: C103: C104: 820pF PAGE 1 C105: .1 PAGE 1 C106: 22pF PAGE 1 C107: 56pF C108: C109: 180pF PAGE 3 C110: 100Pf PAGE 3 C111: 3P9 PAGE 3 C112: 1nF PAGE 3 C113: 100pF PAGE 3 C114: C115: 10uF PAGE 3 C116: C117: C118: C119: C120: C121: C122: C123: C124: C125: --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- L1: PAGE 1 L2: L3: L4: L5: L6: L7: L8: L9: L10: L11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 L12: PAGE 3 L13: 100uH PAGE 3 L14: 820uH PAGE 3 --------------------------------------------------------- CONNECTORS --------------------------------------------------------- J1: J2: J3: J4: J5: J6: J7: J8: J9: J10: --------------------------------------------------------- ICs --------------------------------------------------------- U1: 74LS138 PAGE 2 U2: PAL16L8 PAGE 2 U3: OS ROM PAGE 2 U4: BASIC PAGE 2 U5: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U6: 74LS158 PAGE 4 U7C: 74LS08 U8: U9: ANTIC PAGE 1 U10: SALLY-6502 PAGE 1 U11: 1.5uH PAGE 1 U11: 4416 PAGE 4 *U11 APPEARS TWICE U12: 4416 PAGE 4 U13: CO60472 PAGE 4 U14A: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U14F: 74LS14 PAGE 4 U15A: LS375 PAGE 4 U15B: LS375B PAGE 4 U16: XLLS51 PAGE 4 U17: GTIA PAGE 3 U18A: 74LS08 PAGE 1 U18B: LS08 PAGE 1 u18B: 74S32 PAGE 4 *U18b APPEARS TWICE U18C: 74S32 PAGE 4 U18D: 74LS08 PAGE 3 U19: 4050 U20: U21: U22: U23: U24: 74LS74 PAGE 1 --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Q1: Q2: PAGE 1 Q3: PAGE 1 Q4: Q5: 2N3904 PAGE 1 Q6: PAGE 3 Q7: Q8: PAGE 3 Q9: PAGE 3 Q10: Q11: Q12: Q13: Q14: Q15: Q16: Q17: Q18: Q19: Q20: --------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Y1: PAGE 1 Y2: PAGE 1 ========================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Has anyone ever re-built an Atari on a breadboard? If we came up with a well-documented way of doing this efficiently, it might really open up future expansion for the platform. As I already wrote in the Sally-on-a-breadboard topic (though slightly off-topic there), veroboarding an A8 only makes sense if you're (as you state) planning to greatly enhance/expand the hardware (while maintaining backward compatibility). For example take a look at what Georg Braun designed based on the original Amiga 1000, at http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/a1kboard.htm (text only in German) A few months ago a group of enthusiasts took this project one step further, and had a small production run of this mainboard. Find out about the progress they're making at http://www.gba1000.info/index.asp (text in English). re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Has anyone ever re-built an Atari on a breadboard? If we came up with a well-documented way of doing this efficiently, it might really open up future expansion for the platform. As I already wrote in the Sally-on-a-breadboard topic (though slightly off-topic there), veroboarding an A8 only makes sense if you're (as you state) planning to greatly enhance/expand the hardware (while maintaining backward compatibility). For example take a look at what Georg Braun designed based on the original Amiga 1000, at http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/a1kboard.htm (text only in German) A few months ago a group of enthusiasts took this project one step further, and had a small production run of this mainboard. Find out about the progress they're making at http://www.gba1000.info/index.asp (text in English). re-atari WOW!!!! I still have my original A1000, and a spare. I know what I'll be doing with the spare now... ha! Those were some beautiful systems to own 21 years ago, and in my opinion, they still are one of nicest looking computer cases, cooler pizzaboxes than Sun ever made, & the keyboard stows away nicely, clearing desk-space. The A4000T was the other beautiful Amiga. All of the other Amigas were quite functional, but not as aesthetically pleasing. & Yes, I believe the point that many users on Atariage missed is that the "on a Breadboard" threads were put together in an effort to have a standardized knowledge-base for progressing the Atari 8-Bit technology, by better defining the system, and it's chipset on a breadboard, metaphorically. Through a reverse engineering process such as this, all of the question-marks can be eliminated, and with the knowledge gleamed from such an endeavor, progress toward a more sophisticated Atari 8-Bit can occur in a much more standardized fashion. This should be readily apparent to anyone who has read this entire thread. It is very cool that the Amiga users ran with this concept & produced the GB A1000. Once more users here become as mature as their Cheddar, maybe then we can continue to work towards something that we can all be proud of. While at first an amusing bit of absurdist-criticism, the "Cheese on a Breadbord" thread has turned into something both outlandish & spite-ridden. Not that I can't take a joke, but, really now, warerat calling me a "tool on a skateboard" is a bit much. Who is nasty like that? He obviously would not say that to me at a conference table in person. Quite frankly, if ANYONE called me "a tool" in person, anywhere, they would spend an awful lot of time collecting their teeth from the floor, that's just the way it goes when people deliberately use fighting-words. People who do such things are, of course safe & snug in their homes typing away, and that's that, however, I do recommend that Mr. warerat verbally tries his words on for size outside of his home with random strangers. I spent quite a bit of time organizing information, and presenting it in a clear & orderly fashion, even taking the time to provide hypertext links, to make the threads convenient to navigate, to help facilitate the research that will only help to benefit the Atari Community. All of this takes time. Mocking me personally for taking the first steps by using a text editor & a graphics editor to visualize concepts serves what purpose exactly? I'll tell you what it does do, it makes it not fun. I've been a technical computer user for 30 years, a senior UNIX sys admin, software engineer, and practitioner of all sorts of hackery, I've maintained large datacenters with biometric entry portals, worked with AI, VR and many other forms of sophisticated technology. I've worked in supercomputing environments, and devoted a lot of years to studying HPC system architecture, defense systems, and system security. Its rather ludicrous for me to see a bunch of users here deriding me for trying to make positive things happen because I suggested to apply well known reverse engineering concepts and commonly accepted performance-oriented system architecture topologies. The only logical conclusion that I see is that these users don't want progress to occur. It takes time, as well as effort to create good documentation. Failure to properly document any technical endeavor is often the primary reason why projects fail or become unmaintainable during the course of their lifecycle. Encouraging research encourages development; there are many fine minds on this site, each with their own special abilities, so, by far, it is much better for the community, on a whole, to applaud progressive research, which allows everyone to contribute ideas based on their own forte, rather than to dismiss them by disallowing and eliminating their opportunity for creative input. To do so hurts everyone. If you agree with what I'm saying, do take the time to say so to the cheesetrolls. Thanks again for your interest, even amidst the fervent adversity, many fine ideas have come to light in the posts to these threads, and I find it very fascinating to see such interesting topics as de-capping, and hearing how others have creatively hacked pre-existing technologies to make something new & more advanced. L8R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 While at first an amusing bit of absurdist-criticism, the "Cheese on a Breadbord" thread has turned into something both outlandish & spite-ridden. Not that I can't take a joke, but, really now, warerat calling me a "tool on a skateboard" is a bit much. Who is nasty like that? He obviously would not say that to me at a conference table in person. Quite frankly, if ANYONE called me "a tool" in person, anywhere, they would spend an awful lot of time collecting their teeth from the floor, that's just the way it goes when people deliberately use fighting-words. People who do such things are, of course safe & snug in their homes typing away, and that's that, however, I do recommend that Mr. warerat verbally tries his words on for size outside of his home with random strangers. First, you don't impress or intimidate me with your "I'm an ass kicker guy" facade. And if you carry on in the outside world like you do here, that word should not be new to you. Apparently it's not the first time, or maybe it just hits home. News flash just in: I'm man enough to call you a tool to your face if you deserve it (read: I can dish it as well as take it, whatever the outcome), but I'm also man enough to say I went overboard. I've been called names before, but maybe I'm just more thick-skinned than you and don't have to go crying to an online community for support. I'll be in the northeast in December and will by glad to stop by in NJ and have a beer with you if you'd like. I'll even buy you one and we can talk about that time machine you would like to have. Quit whining, turn on Skinny Puppy and smoke a clove or something. I'm nasty? Is that why you have "IRATE" in your avatar? Is there some inadequacy you'd like to discuss? Did you get spanked with retarded emoticons as a budding developer? I've been a technical computer user for 30 years, a senior UNIX sys admin, software engineer, and practitioner of all sorts of hackery, I've maintained large datacenters with biometric entry portals, worked with AI, VR and many other forms of sophisticated technology. I've worked in supercomputing environments, and devoted a lot of years to studying HPC system architecture, defense systems, and system security. Its rather ludicrous for me to see a bunch of users here deriding me for trying to make positive things happen because I suggested to apply well known reverse engineering concepts and commonly accepted performance-oriented system architecture topologies. The only logical conclusion that I see is that these users don't want progress to occur. So? I don't care if what you really do is clean mouse balls for the PC help desk and you just use this as an outlet for your self-claimed uber-hacker persona. As you've pulled out your credentials dick looking for gasps of approval and admiration, I'm not going to bite (your dick) and pull my pants down too. I'll just say that instead of "maintaining, working with, and studying" I've "architected and implemented" many of the same "sophisticated" technology you mention for a Fortune 500 company. UNIX and HPC. Practioner? My god, is there no end to your ego? Will I reach that coolness factor with you if I send you my SF86 questionnaire? Dude, get a grip. This is an Atari 8-bit, not some parallel compute node in a Tier-I datacenter with TMR systems all hooked up to Panasas storage. Oh wait, are you going to school me on the etymology of the word "dude" (or it is d00dz in your world?) on how it came from cool skaters and surfer guys and that I'm not hip enough to use it? You insult others who don't have your flowery poetic mastery of English as their first language and then blow it off like it's all a big joke and misunderstanding (Soap Opera, right?). Hey, at least those people CREATE physical things, not vaporous "metaphors" about the design of a machine that's over two decades old. Take down that mirror in the ceiling of your bedroom already, your vanity is blinding me. Your hardware ideas are pushing laughable, and yet you have the balls to try to convince me with your credentials? Come on now, get grounded. Better yet, get schooled. It takes time, as well as effort to create good documentation. Failure to properly document any technical endeavor is often the primary reason why projects fail or become unmaintainable during the course of their lifecycle. Encouraging research encourages development; there are many fine minds on this site, each with their own special abilities, so, by far, it is much better for the community, on a whole, to applaud progressive research, which allows everyone to contribute ideas based on their own forte, rather than to dismiss them by disallowing and eliminating their opportunity for creative input. To do so hurts everyone. If you agree with what I'm saying, do take the time to say so to the cheesetrolls. Thanks again for your interest, even amidst the fervent adversity, many fine ideas have come to light in the posts to these threads, and I find it very fascinating to see such interesting topics as de-capping, and hearing how others have creatively hacked pre-existing technologies to make something new & more advanced. L8R. Rather than think some of us are a bunch of jerks for not swallowing your ideas, perhaps you should think why others feel that way. You get an A+++ for enthusiasm. Ideas aren't what are lacking in these forums. Ideas are a dime a dozen, but implementation is priceless. Can I personally build an Atari on a breadboard? Yes, and I wouldn't need to use the design of an existing production machine as a starting point for it. Would I? No. And I'll leave it at that. Nothing to do with me about not having the technical fortitude to do it. But you know what, what ever makes the light turn on for you or anyone for that matter. I'm not here to steal the thunder from your thread. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 There's way to much anger on the forum these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 There's way to much anger on the forum these days... Fair enough. I apologize to UC928 for my outburst and don't mean any malice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 PM received, apology accepted, water under bridge. ...& now for a moment of comedy, to change the mood of things around here: IBM MEMO Abstract: Mouse Balls Available as FRU (Field Replacement Unit) Mouse balls are now available as FRU. Therefore, if a mouse fails to operate or should it perform erratically, it may need a ball replacement. Because of the delicate nature of this procedure, replacement of mouse balls should only be attempted by properly trained personnel. Before proceeding, determine the type of mouse balls by examining the underside of the mouse. Domestic balls will be larger and harder than foreign balls. Ball removal procedures differ depending upon manufacturer of the mouse. Foreign balls can be replaced using the pop-off method. Domestic balls are replaced using the twist-off method. Mouse balls are not usually static sensitive. However, excessive handling can result in sudden discharge. Upon completion of ball replacement, the mouse may be used immediately. It is recommended that each replacer have a pair of spare balls for maintaining optimum customer satisfaction, and that any customer missing his balls should suspect local personnel of removing these necessary items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Here you can find some documents on some of the atari ICs: http://www.retromicro.com/downloads.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 As I already wrote in the Sally-on-a-breadboard topic (though slightly off-topic there), veroboarding an A8 only makes sense if you're (as you state) planning to greatly enhance/expand the hardware (while maintaining backward compatibility). For example take a look at what Georg Braun designed based on the original Amiga 1000, at http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/a1kboard.htm (text only in German) A few months ago a group of enthusiasts took this project one step further, and had a small production run of this mainboard. Find out about the progress they're making at http://www.gba1000.info/index.asp (text in English). I still have my original A1000, and a spare. I know what I'll be doing with the spare now... ha! (...) It is very cool that the Amiga users ran with this concept & produced the GB A1000. Slightly off-topic (yet again): more info about the birth of the GB A1000 is available at http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8947 Georg describes there how he developed this magnificent piece of hardware, and how he got hold of the parts. Quite lengthy (22 pages!) but a good read if you know your way around in German. The images speak for themselves, though. AFAIK there are no more empty PCB's available from the production run, as they had to be pre-ordered. A group of people at a1k.org is now trying to find a manufacturer to machine-solder them the SMD parts to the PCB. Soldering SMD's by hand is not for the faint-hearted and generally no fun at all (speaking from experience). Some parts are quite scarce and will prove difficult to obtain and/or pricey. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) It is very cool that the Amiga users ran with this concept & produced the GB A1000. Wow. there are no words that can describe how great achievement this is! This should really spark the interest for the Atari-breadboard! Edited November 11, 2008 by roland p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 Great News! I have received the Official Atari 600XL Schematics! I have also received several high-resolution 600XL board photos! I'm just waiting for one large full board pic, taken straight on, with even lighting. I should be getting this image soon. The Official Schematic is EXACTLY what we needed here, it is so detailed that there will be no questions... at all. Are there any XML/web developers here? I would like to create an augmented schematic from both, suitable for study by anyone... Meaning, mouse over a component area on the schematic, and have a pop-up of the physical components photograph of that area come up with a right click, via image-mapping. I think that something like this will draw more interested parties, and has the potential to be a neat learning tool for electronics novices. Since we are dealing with one specific machine, this shouldn't be overwhelmingly difficult to do. It would also be nice to be able to middle click, and have the component text available to both read, and copy/paste, in a secondary text box. This would be like a web-oriented use of the type of 'augmented reality' technology that is used by technicians working on jets, but in reverse. If you know it like the back of your hand, & have a few quick links for some code that does this, that would be cool. If not, I'll look some stuff up, and see what I can put together. With something like this available, anyone can check the augmented schematic, and know exactly what we're talking about (on the board) at any time. In the mean-time, I'll do a bit of image-enhancement & tidying/stitching on the new schematic, then I'll post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Have you considered the PAL 600XL, as it has the monitor output already in place, or is that going to complicate things too much. My PAL 600 is on the bench at the moment, I did internal 64k upgrade at the weekend, and hope to do the 32-in-1 OS mod tonight, and the MegaHZ 512K RAM upgrade at the weekend. If you want any pictures let me know before I put it all back together again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 For example take a look at what Georg Braun designed based on the original Amiga 1000, at http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/a1kboard.htm (text only in German) A few months ago a group of enthusiasts took this project one step further, and had a small production run of this mainboard. Find out about the progress they're making at http://www.gba1000.info/index.asp (text in English). Holy crap that's amazing! I'd love to get my hands on one of those. Looks like that will never happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 Have you considered the PAL 600XL, as it has the monitor output already in place, or is that going to complicate things too much.My PAL 600 is on the bench at the moment, I did internal 64k upgrade at the weekend, and hope to do the 32-in-1 OS mod tonight, and the MegaHZ 512K RAM upgrade at the weekend. If you want any pictures let me know before I put it all back together again. Yes, please do! In fact, if you could photo-document those upgrades, it would be perfect for this. I had started a thread called "The definitive list of 600XL upgrades"... that would be the place to put it, so that we have a common reference point. The official 600XL schematics have notes for necessary changes for PAL or NTSC video output. Has anyone ever done an upgrade that has both PAL & NTSC circuits (switchable or possibly simultaneous dual output of the same display)? If we built the 600X to use a video module standard like that, it would be good for all users everywhere. Very cool, Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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