+wood_jl Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Here's one for you to convert to Commodore 64 colors: How would this one look on C64? Someone proceed! Oh... I remember years ago this demo, thank you for posting! If you have the xex file, it would be welcomed to my collection. Darn if I don't have it! I grabbed the image of an Atari.pl site, but I just stumbled on it. I do remember the demo from years ago. Anybody have this demo? Still waiting for someone (Wolfram - where are you when we need you?) to convert it to C64 graphics. I doubt I'm the only one on this thread who would like to see it converted. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Here's one for you to convert to Commodore 64 colors: How would this one look on C64? Someone proceed! Oh... I remember years ago this demo, thank you for posting! If you have the xex file, it would be welcomed to my collection. Darn if I don't have it! I grabbed the image of an Atari.pl site, but I just stumbled on it. I do remember the demo from years ago. Anybody have this demo? Still waiting for someone (Wolfram - where are you when we need you?) to convert it to C64 graphics. I doubt I'm the only one on this thread who would like to see it converted. Anyone else? Me too .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) I'm a C64 user actually, I just love how you can wind the the C64 users; they're getting in a hot bother so easy about their beloved 'gaming machine', especially the Germans. BLASPHEMY!!!! (just kidding) Boy, you did take some friendly fire there, eh? And I thought Atari was "big" in Germany. I wouldn't know. I was in Germany at age 7, so I wasn't really was not able to get first-hand experience back then! Edited April 28, 2009 by wood_jl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 pencils.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Here's one for you to convert to Commodore 64 colors: How would this one look on C64? Someone proceed! Oh... I remember years ago this demo, thank you for posting! If you have the xex file, it would be welcomed to my collection. Darn if I don't have it! I grabbed the image of an Atari.pl site, but I just stumbled on it. I do remember the demo from years ago. Anybody have this demo? Still waiting for someone (Wolfram - where are you when we need you?) to convert it to C64 graphics. I doubt I'm the only one on this thread who would like to see it converted. Anyone else? Me too .... Few quick test to show how it could looks on a C64. In fact, that not so bad, the pencil looks even more reallistic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 In fact, that not so bad, the pencil looks even more reallistic! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Here's one for you to convert to Commodore 64 colors: How would this one look on C64? Someone proceed! I would be very interrested to see it the A800 is able to do the same thing but putting pencils vertically! It would be interresting... as it stands now, it is nice but no very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 So are there any games on the Timex Sinclair 1000 (ZX81) that look better than the Atari version? Maybe we can get some ZX81 fanboys ("color is hard on the eyes!, real keys are harder to clean!") to sign up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 That pencils screen uses Mode 8. I was "WTF!?!" - had to look it up... it's Graphics 3. Must use PMG overlays in parts to form the shapes. Initially looking at it, you'd swear it's in GTIA paletted, or luma mode with PMG overlays. Kinda weird way of doing it. Vertically... PMG overlays in OR mode would probably be the WTG. Maybe a kernal to repeat use on or two of them. So, a possible 31 or so colours per scanline if done in hires multicolour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle boy Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Here's one for you to convert to Commodore 64 colors: How would this one look on C64? Someone proceed! I would be very interrested to see it the A800 is able to do the same thing but putting pencils vertically! It would be interresting... as it stands now, it is nice but no very impressive. Indeed. There's no doubt that the Atari can do some extremely nice horizontal colour bars, displaying a far greater range of colours than the c64 is capable of. showing. But versatility is also a key factor, possibly the most important factor, which is why I'm sure the Atari will have no problem matching the following plane jane standard multicolour c64 effort... Right? Now that I've said that, you guys probably will match it one way or another, you bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Using PMGs in ORed mode (PRIOR=00), you could get 3 pencils per pair of Players = 6 One oncovered = 7. That's using 3 shades for the pencil body. Couple of register changes might make 3 more pencils. One more from the missiles, although the missiles might need to be used to mask the gaps to maintain a constant background colour. Dunno... there's a number of ways to attack it. Of course, leaving TIP and APAC out of the equation since they allow 256 colours anyway. ed - hang on, the ORed mode only works with PF0/1, PL0/1 and PF2/3, PL2/3 pairs. But... there's more than one way to skin a cat... remembering that 23 colours can be had on a scanline without any CPU intervention. Edited April 28, 2009 by Rybags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urborg Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Maybe now try to place pencils oblique It would be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 A new 8 bit test..... PENCILMARK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Indeed. There's no doubt that the Atari can do some extremely nice horizontal colour bars, displaying a far greater range of colours than the c64 is capable of. showing. But versatility is also a key factor, possibly the most important factor, which is why I'm sure the Atari will have no problem matching the following plane jane standard multicolour c64 effort... Right? Now that I've said that, you guys probably will match it one way or another, you bastards! I turned my monitor sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Using PMGs in ORed mode (PRIOR=00), you could get 3 pencils per pair of Players = 6One oncovered = 7. That's using 3 shades for the pencil body. Couple of register changes might make 3 more pencils. One more from the missiles, although the missiles might need to be used to mask the gaps to maintain a constant background colour. Dunno... there's a number of ways to attack it. Of course, leaving TIP and APAC out of the equation since they allow 256 colours anyway. ed - hang on, the ORed mode only works with PF0/1, PL0/1 and PF2/3, PL2/3 pairs. But... there's more than one way to skin a cat... remembering that 23 colours can be had on a scanline without any CPU intervention. For the first attempt I would resist the temptation to do it the "Atari" way with proper shades of a single color, and instead do it with color mixing similar to what is shown. I also noticed that each group of 2 pencils introduces a mostly new set of base colors, so that separation helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Afaik, Peter Sabath had been using these pencils in his "Grafik und Sound Demo" (graphics and sound demo) which originally appeared in 1986 for the german magazine Computer Kontakt. But the demo was not officially released. So he re-worked his demo for Compyshop and also supported the 130XE (no more diskloading during demo parts) - both demos can be found online somewhere... But err, I guess I have seen this effect before (but I am unsure, could also be wrong) in the "Discape Demo" by Anthony Ramos which only uses Atari Basic and some ML subroutines... have to check it out... greetings, Andreas Koch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 If someone would create a DMA HD Interface, we could play MMOs on the Atari ... Does anyone here speak enough crazy to explain to emkay the difference between an MMO and Dragon's Lair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well, I'm a bit lazy here and G2F has too much restrictions.... And, considering the C64 has reduced colours in both directions ... Even if the Atari has this weird restriction in hires, we're not really helpless there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 If someone would create a DMA HD Interface, we could play MMOs on the Atari ... Does anyone here speak enough crazy to explain to emkay the difference between an MMO and Dragon's Lair? I know the difference , a little Who said, that the A8 has to calculate the artificial world? It's only about the graphicsstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Who said, that the A8 has to calculate the artificial world? You did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Well, I'm a bit lazy here and G2F has too much restrictions.... And, considering the C64 has reduced colours in both directions ... Even if the Atari has this weird restriction in hires, we're not really helpless there. Hehehe The horizontal pencils on the C64 are as ugly compared to the A800 horizontal pencils as the A800 vertical pencils are ugly compared to the C64 vertical pencils (you should zoom in the images not just the thumbnails) Edited April 28, 2009 by jvas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Now let the user select a pencil arbitrarily using a light pen and that pencil should HSCROLL out a color clock at a time (while other pencils remain stationary) and when the pencil is removed, the other pencils should collapse in to make the stack smaller. Don't look now, but looks like ANTIC/GTIA have pencil motion hardware built-in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Don't look now, but looks like ANTIC/GTIA have pencil motion hardware built-in! At least hardware support for "HORIZONTAL pencil" motion Edited April 28, 2009 by jvas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 ...Color Memory Scheme = Total strength. A lot can be done with 2 colors per character cell. Speccy guys have this too. Strength. ... Don't see your point here with "total strength". Color memory is at the expense of 40+ DMA cycles per every 8 scanlines. Images don't always need colors every 8*8; it's a waste of color RAM in all the areas where colors are just repeated in the color RAM. A better hardware approach is like the Amiga with its Copper where you make color changes at exact (x,y) video beam locations where you need them. Atari has similar approach but it has a bandwidth limitation to do it as many times as Amiga (or C64 horizontally) but with GPRIOR enabling OR color effects, it can get a bunch of colors in regions where they are needed the most. ...and CPU is a weakness of the C64. What they should have done was clock the CPU up, and provide the extra data per scanline. Or, do it the Color Computer way, and fetch data on the trailing edge of a clock cycle, and not disturb the CPU at all. The coco 3 model fetches up to 160 bytes per scanline, and doesn't touch the CPU at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 In fact, that not so bad, the pencil looks even more reallistic! LOL He must have been joking or perhaps dither and color blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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