Fröhn Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 so we should search further... do we get 20? Think we already have them: I like the list, since most of the titles are top-notch on both computers! Uh what? Most top notch C64 games do not even exist as A8 versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 then, no idea why do you find ... blue max... Overscan, general graphics? CU Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Most top notch C64 games do not even exist as A8 versions. Question of taste. E.g. I still enjoy Kennedy Approach, is there something better on the C64 in this genre? Please feel free to tell us your top-notch list - I like to know! CU Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I like the list, since most of the titles are top-notch on both computers! only a few of them is on lemon64s top list: bruce lee, boulder dash, archon, mule. 3 of these belongs to your debatable list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 then, no idea why do you find ... blue max... Overscan, general graphics? graphics is the same pixel by pixel. I can trade oversan for better sound effect on the c64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Please feel free to tell us your top-notch list - I like to know! lemon64: 8.92 Maniac Mansion 238 8.91 Zak McKracken and ... 186 8.91 Pirates! 210 8.87 Last Ninja 2 273 8.83 Archon: The Light ... 172 8.81 IK+ 303 8.74 Elite 184 8.73 Bruce Lee 270 8.71 Turrican II: The F... 146 8.70 Wasteland 84 8.70 Ultima IV: Quest o... 81 8.69 Project Firestart 108 8.69 Last Ninja, The 242 8.69 Bubble Bobble 272 8.68 Summer Games 2 126 8.67 Turrican 141 8.65 Defender of the Cr... 199 8.62 Emlyn Hughes Inter... 91 8.61 MicroProse Soccer 153 8.61 M.U.L.E. 107 8.56 Leaderboard Golf 153 8.55 Winter Games 196 8.55 Boulder Dash 224 8.54 Great Giana Sister... 234 8.54 Impossible Mission 233 8.52 Creatures 2: Tortu... 112 8.50 World Games 136 8.48 Armalyte 153 8.48 Samurai Warrior: T... 141 8.48 Ultima V: Warriors... 52 8.47 Mayhem in Monsterl... 111 8.46 Alter Ego: Male Ve... 76 8.44 California Games 188 8.43 Montezuma's Reveng... 87 8.42 Summer Games 117 8.42 Bard's Tale, The: ... 79 8.42 Airborne Ranger 83 8.40 Pool of Radiance 50 8.38 Paradroid 172 8.37 Gunship 67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 With some enhanced G2F and scanline interleaved Antic modes, well, something similar could be done. 320x200? It would look like "320x200" . Building a Displaylist for interleaving hires an colour modes. At the hires mode lines, you can multiplex all PM graphics then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I agree about some of those on the above list... What I really would have liked to have seen on the A8 were any of Epyx's "Games" series. It's too bad we only got Summer Games. The Bard's Tale series would have been another nice one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) But THAT is only caused by the fact that more scrolling with sprites Games existed back in the 80s. nobody stopped a8 coders to write lots of 3d games to wash off the poor c64 off the game market. still they produced more 2d games than 3d even when c64 didnt existed. That's caused by the fact that they tried to make C64 stuff on the A8, instead of making the A8 stuff more perfect. Edited November 28, 2008 by emkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) But THAT is only caused by the fact that more scrolling with sprites Games existed back in the 80s. nobody stopped a8 coders to write lots of 3d games to wash off the poor c64 off the game market. still they produced more 2d games than 3d even when c64 didnt existed. That's caused by the fact that they tried to make C64 stuff on the A8, instead of making the A8 stuff more perfect. before the c64 arrived?! wow, they foresaw the future Edited November 28, 2008 by Oswald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) Oswald This thread is NOT about great games on a system, any games, but about the games that are on both where the OP can experience the A8 as having a better game, it is not the point to list a top 20 or 30 C64 games, as many of those are NOT on the A8! As I was trying to say it's MY experiences, not technical isues that color one's choices, so... bruce lee - played first on Atari 8bit, I enjoy the use of color on the Atari (BL is at least pink) better - oh and Yamo's call is forever lodged in my brain from the 800 version - I prefer it. montezuma - likewize the colors sit better with me... IK - again the more subtle colors really make the backgrounds work bettter to my eye... blue max - we will have to agree to differ here, the A8 version looks plays and sounds better to me than the C64 version, I find it's just much more polished on the Atari, overscan, colors etc henry's house - again overall polish, color and feel seem better to me - much prefer A8 pole position - speed and feel for me - it's just not as tight on the C64, the sfx are worse to my ear and it looks lo-res (the track edges are so chunky) dropzone - no contest for me I am afraid, it's so polished and feels and sounds great on the A8, the C64 is competent, but just not as solid feeling or as energetic... sTeVE Edited November 28, 2008 by Jetboot Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 a) compared to last time we are not getting too emotional and personal attacks - thats good Your father is a hamster and your mother smells of elderberries! b) we are discussing in more detail as the details are the important ones (not so general states like 5 sprites vs 8 sprites, 256 colours vs 16 etc...) Yeah, i like the details; these discussions (if you ignore the trolling about how machines look and rubbish like that) are great for learning more about machines. Even a straight list of games can be interesting, because my first reaction is to ask why they're better. I guess that's the reason why TMR and other coders are here still around... (me either)... With me it's just masochism... there have been days i've wondered why, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Oswald This thread is NOT about great games on a system, any games, but about the games that are on both where the OP can experience the A8 as having a better game, it is not the point to list a top 20 or 30 C64 games, as many of those are NOT on the A8! As I was trying to say it's MY experiences, not technical isues that color one's choices, so... bruce lee - played first on Atari 8bit, I enjoy the use of color on the Atari (BL is at least pink) better - oh and Yamo's call is forever lodged in my brain from the 800 version - I prefer it. montezuma - likewize the colors sit better with me... IK - again the more subtle colors really make the backgrounds work bettter to my eye... blue max - we will have to agree to differ here, the A8 version looks plays and sounds better to me than the C64 version, I find it's just much more polished on the Atari, overscan, colors etc henry's house - again overall polish, color and feel seem better to me - much prefer A8 pole position - speed and feel for me - it's just not as tight on the C64, the sfx are worse to my ear and it looks lo-res (the track edges are so chunky) dropzone - no contest for me I am afraid, it's so polished and feels and sounds great on the A8, the C64 is competent, but just not as solid feeling or as energetic... sTeVE Agree on Pole Position - though when they came out (neighbor had a C64) I was po'd that the C64 version looked better, but it drove like a boat on water vs the Atari version I could really perform some pinpoint manuevers. Dig Dug (2nd release) is also better on the 8bit. C64 again looks nicer but gameplay is way off. Dig Dig is a game though that coul easily be fixed on the C64, but the released version is utter garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) Archon, simply because of: The Great American Country Road Race: Pastfinder: HERO: [imghttp://www.lemon64.com/games/screenshots/full/h_e_r_o_06.gif[/img] Edited November 28, 2008 by Heaven/TQA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 it is not the point to list a top 20 or 30 C64 games, as many of those are NOT on the A8! please read the posts -> Irgendwer asked us to post a c64 top games list, so I did. As I was trying to say it's MY experiences, not technical isues that color one's choices, so... well, there's not much sense saying this or that game is better because you played them on this or that machine first. this is the area were comparisons cant be made, comparisons can be mode on nr of colors, speed, etc. exactly vice versa as you put it. (one of your first posts claimed we cant compare the machines empirically, well yes we can just like games, what we cant compare is subjective opinions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 For game comparisions: Mr Robot and his robot factory seemed better on Atari - it lots the rainbow effect on the C64, and for some reason the enemies seemed to colour clash with the ladders. I remember some of the early Atari games being AppleII ports ( I like Bandits for example ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 for some reason the enemies seemed to colour clash with the ladders. they do not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) MULE: Spelunker: River Raid: Pole Position: Edited November 28, 2008 by Heaven/TQA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) Most top notch C64 games do not even exist as A8 versions. So what? Yes, I would also enjoy 'Pirates!' or 'Wasteland' on the Atari, but you cannot compare something that does not exist. We never doubted that the C64 has the bigger selection of programs. (At least you have to agree that in case of 'Wasteland' an 1:1 version would be possible. Where is the 'Dimension X', 'Alley Cat' (the real one which also exists for PCs), 'Yoomp!' for C64? And these are top notch games too. So let's take your list, first 25 entries: 8.92 Maniac Mansion 238 - no Atari version 8.91 Zak McKracken and ... 186 - no Atari version 8.91 Pirates! 210 - no Atari version 8.87 Last Ninja 2 273 - no Atari version 8.83 Archon: The Light ... 172 - comparable or better 8.81 IK+ 303 - no Atari version 8.74 Elite 184 - no Atari version 8.73 Bruce Lee 270 - comparable or better 8.71 Turrican II: The F... 146 - no Atari version 8.70 Wasteland 84 - no Atari version 8.70 Ultima IV: Quest o... 81 - comparable 8.69 Project Firestart 108 - no Atari version 8.69 Last Ninja, The 242 - no Atari version 8.69 Bubble Bobble 272 - no Atari version 8.68 Summer Games 2 126 - comparable 8.67 Turrican 141 - no Atari version 8.65 Defender of the Cr... 199 - no Atari version 8.62 Emlyn Hughes Inter... 91 - no Atari version 8.61 MicroProse Soccer 153 - no Atari version 8.61 M.U.L.E. 107 - comparable or better 8.56 Leaderboard Golf 153 - comparable 8.55 Winter Games 196 - no Atari version 8.55 Boulder Dash 224 - comparable or better 8.54 Great Giana Sister... 234 - no Atari version 8.54 Impossible Mission 233 - no Atari version This tells you if there is an Atari version it is at least comparable. Head-to-head... CU Irgendwer Edited November 28, 2008 by Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 for some reason the enemies seemed to colour clash with the ladders. they do not Maybe colour clash is the wrong description - It was almost as if there was a mask problem.. ( Maybe it was a sprite flicker ) It was a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 archon & bruce lee are equally good. there's hardly any difference. slightly different colors, and different but similarly primitive sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) ...The Great American Country Road Race: Pastfinder: HERO: ... Many Activision games look better, you can add Zenji, River Raid, (edit)Decathlon(/edit) or Space Shuttle too. CU Irgendwer Edited November 28, 2008 by Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 But THAT is only caused by the fact that more scrolling with sprites Games existed back in the 80s. nobody stopped a8 coders to write lots of 3d games to wash off the poor c64 off the game market. still they produced more 2d games than 3d even when c64 didnt existed. That's caused by the fact that they tried to make C64 stuff on the A8, instead of making the A8 stuff more perfect. before the c64 arrived?! wow, they foresaw the future Trolling again? Well, there already existed games that went into the right direction. Actually in a time when the C64 wasn't there...from 1978 to 1982. But it was another "age" , just more pioneering into the software 3D Red Baron Wayout Starraiders The highest reached level was, when Lucasfilm released their games. But also Lucasfilm went off producing something for the Atari , due to marketing issues... The market turned more and more into the C64 region after 1982...: People who wanted to make the "save" money, just made a game for the C64. And People who "defended" the Atari, made the mistake to reach C64 features then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Irgendwer... Summer Games on A8 is poor conversion imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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