PeteD Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 You know, UKers didn't even own a C64 fdd, all games came on tape. Activision even had to release Little Computer People on tape, with over half of the options missing. How sad is that? Games might have come out mostly on tape, but I think that was mostly the due to all the other platforms being on tape as well.. For the record, back in the day I didn't know anyone without a 1541.. And most of the American arse that arrived back then on disk was hardly worth subjecting your 64 to.. Apart from, Transformers with its full side of (barely understandable) digitised speech and slide show introduction.. I listened to that loads, mostly to try and figure out the hell it was saying And other arse like Hot Wheels and stuff.. The only good thing to come out of the US market was Racing Destruction Set.. Now that was cool On the other hand, of all the Atari guys I knew back then, not a single one had a disk drive Wow, I posted this earlier so STe86 was proven wrong (he said no good USA games after 85 on C64): Origin games like Knights of Legend (1989), Bad Blood (1991) Space Rogue (1989), Tangled Tales (1990), Times of Lore (1989), Ultima 6 (1991) etc.... EA: Arctic Fox (1986) The Bards Tale III (1988), Cave Man Ugh-lympics (1989), Budokan (1991), Dragon Wars (modem game )1989), Project Firestart (1989), Sentinel Worlds (1989), Skate or Die, Ski or Die, Starflight, etc.... SSI: any of the Gold boxes (all after 1987) Sir-Tech: Wizardy V (1988) Infocom: Zorkquest 1 and 2 (1988), Battletech (1989), Gamma Force (1988) and still many more of the best text adventure games after 1985. Access: leaderboard (1986), Mean Streets (1989), Echolon (1987) Accolade: they only started out in 1985, and had many of the best titles until 1990. Lucasfilm: Strike Fleet, Zack McKracken, Pipedream UK would never manage any of these titles. (And before you're running through the UK software library claiming the 1000s of better titles, these are just a few examples I have given above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Here we go again....shoulda, coulda, woulda.... And to follow this direction.... I would have bought A C64 ... If it had a 2MHz CPU If it had a good colour palette If it had a better Keyboard If the floppy worked at a better speed from scratch The C64 would have been a good machine, but it was a cheap machine. .... To keep things cheap, they spread out the wishes-- put a 2Mhz processor in C128, put better palette in C16, better keyboard in SuperPet, better floppy drive in Plus 4, and better sprites in C64. I don't remember the date when they put in the boot option on their 8-bit machines. Now all you have to do is network them all together and do distributive programming and you can almost get all the benefits of buying an A8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW Must have been so degrading to C64 users, losing against THAT? To quote WoTR: C64 owners were the cool ones at school - hanging around with the most friends, being asked their opinion on games, and left alone by the bullies. They also got all the girls in their school and from the local one down the road. Except Ryan Phillips, who smelt of wee. Speccy owners were goggle-eyed, girls' panties-wearing, rabbit-shagging dweebs with no social life. Who also all smelt of wee. I think that sums it up perfectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete Funny, we have a chit-chat about Speccy and C64, but how well Atari was being sold at that time. ROTFL :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ballblazer would go well in Interlace... help iron out some of those near-horizontal jaggies. I think horizontal and vertical pixel shifts combined would do a better job. TVs seem to be doing some sort of horizontal pixel shifts as well to make it seem like it has higher resolution than it actually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Origin games like Knights of Legend (1989), Bad Blood (1991) Space Rogue (1989), Tangled Tales (1990), Times of Lore (1989), Ultima 6 (1991) etc....EA: Arctic Fox (1986) The Bards Tale III (1988), Cave Man Ugh-lympics (1989), Budokan (1991), Dragon Wars (modem game )1989), Project Firestart (1989), Sentinel Worlds (1989), Skate or Die, Ski or Die, Starflight, etc.... SSI: any of the Gold boxes (all after 1987) Sir-Tech: Wizardy V (1988) Infocom: Zorkquest 1 and 2 (1988), Battletech (1989), Gamma Force (1988) and still many more of the best text adventure games after 1985. Access: leaderboard (1986), Mean Streets (1989), Echolon (1987) Accolade: they only started out in 1985, and had many of the best titles until 1990. Lucasfilm: Strike Fleet, Zack McKracken, Pipedream UK would never manage any of these titles. (And before you're running through the UK software library claiming the 1000s of better titles, these are just a few examples I have given above) Have you mistakenly posted the list of shite that was Europe was subjected to ? I eagerly await the correct list of good games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW Must have been so degrading to C64 users, losing against THAT? To quote WoTR: C64 owners were the cool ones at school - hanging around with the most friends, being asked their opinion on games, and left alone by the bullies. They also got all the girls in their school and from the local one down the road. Except Ryan Phillips, who smelt of wee. Speccy owners were goggle-eyed, girls' panties-wearing, rabbit-shagging dweebs with no social life. Who also all smelt of wee. I think that sums it up perfectly :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete Funny, we have a chit-chat about Speccy and C64, but how well Atari was being sold at that time. ROTFL :D The Atari sold NOT well in UK, man can't you get even that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Sales don't really mean anything and I'd never take sales as a pointer to if I should buy something or not. Speccy outselling C64 in UK means nothing, Atari outselling C64 in US (did it? not sure I just read that here somewhere but have no facts but I'll presume that's right) means nothing. Instead I'd look at which machine would do the things I wanted, which had the better games and that would (for me) always be C64. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW Must have been so degrading to C64 users, losing against THAT? To quote WoTR: C64 owners were the cool ones at school - hanging around with the most friends, being asked their opinion on games, and left alone by the bullies. They also got all the girls in their school and from the local one down the road. Except Ryan Phillips, who smelt of wee. Speccy owners were goggle-eyed, girls' panties-wearing, rabbit-shagging dweebs with no social life. Who also all smelt of wee. I think that sums it up perfectly :D :D Rocky wasn't one of them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Sales don't really mean anything and I'd never take sales as a pointer to if I should buy something or not. Speccy outselling C64 in UK means nothing, Atari outselling C64 in US (did it? not sure I just read that here somewhere but have no facts but I'll presume that's right) means nothing. Instead I'd look at which machine would do the things I wanted, which had the better games and that would (for me) always be C64. Pete Exactly, C64er are in the same league as Spectrum users, who openly say (on WoS for example), the Speccy had the better games AND you could do more with the machine. No, Atari never outsold C64 in the USA, when the C64 was released, A8 sales were already drying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Sales don't really mean anything and I'd never take sales as a pointer to if I should buy something or not. Speccy outselling C64 in UK means nothing, Atari outselling C64 in US (did it? not sure I just read that here somewhere but have no facts but I'll presume that's right) means nothing. Instead I'd look at which machine would do the things I wanted, which had the better games and that would (for me) always be C64. Pete Sorry Pete, you are wrong, C64 outsold Atari in US too. An interesting quote from wikipedia: "During the Commodore 64's lifetime, sales totalled 17 million units, making it the best-selling single personal computer model of all time. For a substantial period of time (1983-1986), the Commodore 64 dominated the market with between 30% and 40% share and 2 million units sold per year, outselling the IBM PC clones, Apple computers, and Atari computers. Sam Tramiel, a former Atari president said in a 1989 interview "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years." It shows how big impact C64 had on the market. Summing it up, C64 outsold Atari everywhere Edited September 10, 2009 by Rockford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Java SIDPlay2 is coming along nicely, it's the one I use daily, has really good filter/noise emulation. http://jsidplay2.sou.../jsidplay2.jnlp Or afaik you can run vice as just a sid player and the new floating point SID emulation in there is supposed to be really good but then you don't get a real "player" gui like you do with the java one. Pete Sidplay/W 2.5 would be the puppy you'll be wanting.. http://noname.c64.or...lease/?id=76056 It's got the ResidFP emulation in it, though you'll need a fair portion of CPU to run it.. ~2Mhz or so is required.. And I assume you know of the High Voltage Sid Collection ? http://www.hvsc.c64.org/ Thanks for the suggestions... they both look like capable players, although I'm leaning towards SIDPlay2 so far for features. I'll be checking them out, as well as SID's music, over the coming days. Sidplay 2.5 does eat a fair amount of CPU power. Actually, compared to the other 8-bit players I'm using (ASAP <Atari>, NSF Play <NES>) SIDPlay2 is also a fairly CPU hungry app. Is SID that tough to emulate compared to these other chips?? Any suggestions for tunes/composers that utilize SID to good advantage? Anything that shows good form, melodic composition, or unique abilities of the chip are desirable. Edited September 10, 2009 by MrFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 316+ pages and most people still don't know how to quote properly and trim posts... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Sales don't really mean anything and I'd never take sales as a pointer to if I should buy something or not. Speccy outselling C64 in UK means nothing, Atari outselling C64 in US (did it? not sure I just read that here somewhere but have no facts but I'll presume that's right) means nothing. Instead I'd look at which machine would do the things I wanted, which had the better games and that would (for me) always be C64. Pete Sorry Pete, you are wrong, C64 outsold Atari in US too. An interesting quote from wikipedia: "During the Commodore 64's lifetime, sales totalled 17 million units, making it the best-selling single personal computer model of all time. For a substantial period of time (1983-1986), the Commodore 64 dominated the market with between 30% and 40% share and 2 million units sold per year, outselling the IBM PC clones, Apple computers, and Atari computers. Sam Tramiel, a former Atari president said in a 1989 interview "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years." It shows how big impact C64 had on the market. Summing it up, C64 outsold Atari everywhere Sorry for double-posting, my fault Edited September 10, 2009 by Rockford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Spectum was cheaper already upon release, not because it outsold the C64 in the UK by 3 -1 (propably more). That's all well and good, it's just a shame the 64 is the worlds best selling computer, ever Another sign of cruelty Shame on you andym00 The Spectrum is the UKs best selling computer, A BIG SIGN OF CRUELTY, I KNOW True, BUT, best selling is by no means 'better product'. Pete A person who speaks sense. Sales don't really mean anything and I'd never take sales as a pointer to if I should buy something or not. Speccy outselling C64 in UK means nothing, Atari outselling C64 in US (did it? not sure I just read that here somewhere but have no facts but I'll presume that's right) means nothing. Instead I'd look at which machine would do the things I wanted, which had the better games and that would (for me) always be C64. Pete Exactly, C64er are in the same league as Spectrum users, who openly say (on WoS for example), the Speccy had the better games AND you could do more with the machine. No, Atari never outsold C64 in the USA, when the C64 was released, A8 sales were already drying up. I don't know how you come up with this same league thing but if it's about blindly saying one machine is better than another, you've only got to read 95% of atarians posts on this thread to see what they think. Everyone prefers the machine they're used to. I'm not saying one is better than another in general just when I had the choice I chose C64 based on the available games and the quality of them. I'd probably go with an A8 over a speccy or CPC because I know with a bit of work it's capable of doing better stuff. Once again, my opinion. I don't know why you have to attack it and say all C64ers aret the same unless you're all out saying I'm wrong and that just puts you in the zealot group like you think C64 and speccy owners are. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 What's the use of having bigger palette of colours if you cannot use them in games. Scroll up, please, I've been showing many examples of that. There are 10 so far, but much more will be coming The bigger palette was used many times in games. Just have a look at Yoomp! Or the old games like Archon, Rainbow Walker, Master of the Lamps, Rescue on Fractalus (Intro), Koronis Rift, American Road Race, (Or simply) Bruce Lee (poor green broocy)...., Space Lobsters ... Some games use it for the screen itself, some game use palette changes to enhance the scene. The last of both you don't see on fixed images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 316+ pages and most people still don't know how to quote properly and trim posts... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com If you measure time between posts on some replies, you can see some desperation to reply as fast as possible (sometimes resulting in poster clicking "Add Reply" multiple times). Finding time to trim posts would be difficult then for such people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I don't know how you come up with this same league thing but if it's about blindly saying one machine is better than another, you've only got to read 95% of atarians posts on this thread to see what they think. Everyone prefers the machine they're used to. I'm not saying one is better than another in general just when I had the choice I chose C64 based on the available games and the quality of them. I'd probably go with an A8 over a speccy or CPC because I know with a bit of work it's capable of doing better stuff. Once again, my opinion. I don't know why you have to attack it and say all C64ers aret the same unless you're all out saying I'm wrong and that just puts you in the zealot group like you think C64 and speccy owners are. Pete I know, but if the C64 users are something like Rocky, you know, you bound to get slightly worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Sorry Pete, you are wrong, C64 outsold Atari in US too. An interesting quote from wikipedia: "During the Commodore 64's lifetime, sales totalled 17 million units, making it the best-selling single personal computer model of all time. For a substantial period of time (1983-1986), the Commodore 64 dominated the market with between 30% and 40% share and 2 million units sold per year, outselling the IBM PC clones, Apple computers, and Atari computers. Sam Tramiel, a former Atari president said in a 1989 interview "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years." It shows how big impact C64 had on the market. Summing it up, C64 outsold Atari everywhere Sorry for double-posting, my fault Quite happy to be wrong It's just what I'd read somewhere, probably here but I can't be sure. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 If you measure time between posts on some replies, you can see some desperation to reply as fast as possible (sometimes resulting in poster clicking "Add Reply" multiple times). Finding time to trim posts would be difficult then for such people. Obviously most of them are the C64 users :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) What's the use of having bigger palette of colours if you cannot use them in games. Scroll up, please, I've been showing many examples of that. There are 10 so far, but much more will be coming The bigger palette was used many times in games. Just have a look at Yoomp! Or the old games like Archon, Rainbow Walker, Master of the Lamps, Rescue on Fractalus (Intro), Koronis Rift, American Road Race, (Or simply) Bruce Lee (poor green broocy)...., Space Lobsters ... Some games use it for the screen itself, some game use palette changes to enhance the scene. The last of both you don't see on fixed images. I certainly have to admit that just changing some of the colours on the Exploding Fist backgrounds to ones available on A8 makes them look a hell of a lot nicer BUT it's such a freakin pain in the arse to write a game with that many colours on screen in that layout. Different colours per modeline, easy of course but then you end up with stripey games if you're not careful. hopefully I can reuse all this work thats going into Fist and do something else with it because it'd be a shame if it's a one shot deal. Pete Edited September 10, 2009 by PeteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 You mean don't be so cruel on the C64ers'. Here's the Test Drive screenshot, talken from the C64 god site Lemon64 (wonder why it's called Lemon, poor choice of name, if you ask me. But the the C64 was more lemon than peach). Can't you get anything right? Lemon64 screenshots are hardly a reference because all of them are made with an old crappy emulator with a horribly wrong palette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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