Atari v Commodore

[Oswald]

Looking further at Konami Ping Pong today, the concept for the layout is feasable with two pm's only needed to colour the top hi-res section leaving the remaining two pm's free for the paddle (the overlap provides it's 3rd colour). The paddle at the bottom of the screen has all of the players and missiles available as the rest of the screen down is simply char based. Very few chars are required so splitting the screen sections and using a software sprite for the ball shouldn't create any difficulties.

 

Here's an xex attached anyway showing the layout that could be used in a working game. The screen can easily be coloured further adding some nicer shading on the table and other areas etc but I've left it just as a simple comparision here.

 

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

[Jetboot Jack]

And in reality if one were to convert Konami Ping Pong to the A8 you would simply use an Antic 4 screen, all the players for the top hand/paddle and re-use them for the lower one too, plus the missiles as the ball...

 

I would rather lose the hi-res audince, which add NOTHING to the gameplay and have them as 160 pixel mode artwork to simplify the conversion - and would use lots of color via DLI to really spice up the screen from teh drab MSX/C64 visuals...

 

sTeVE

[Heaven/TQA]

Steve,

 

yes... as first step... and if there is enough power left...enhance the scene.

[Rybags]

A game like that doesn't seem to have a whole lot going on.

 

Would probably lend itself well to an almost direct port with an emulation layer.

[Crazyace]

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

 

and the c64 has to juggle around somehow to show 128 colours?

 

I agree the JBJ that this game doesn't need to be in 320 pixel mode - and if it had been written at the time it would be in 160 mode without any major complaints. The version shown is demonstrating how to emulate the particular c64 look.

 

An Atari version could look like this ( Amstrad version )

[Heaven/TQA]

Rybags...that's what I ment with "let the c64 code running on A8 and see what happens"...

[Bryan]

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

What? Not enough arguing for you on this page?

 

So, if I throw away my A8 and get a C64, I'll get easier conversions.

 

Of course, if I throw away my C64 and get an Amiga, I'll get easier conversions still.

 

But, if I throw away my Amiga and stick to just using my PC, I'll have all the power I could ever need for conversions.

 

Oh my goodness, I've just discovered that retrocomputing is a big waste of time!!!!!!

Edited December 3, 2008 by Bryan

[Tezz]

Yea, it would make more sense on the A8 to have it all 160 wide and to then spice it up with more colour which in turn leaves all the pm's free utilising the machines features in the way it was best designed. The thing here was that I really wanted to break the typical A8 mould to present the game in a way not often seen plus I always try to match the source in the best way possible for a good looking conversion. Not to say the the prefered method wouldn't be good too. There's just very few games around using hi-res with underlays and I'd like to see it taken advantage of more. It most definately makes things more difficult however.

[Tezz]

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

Yes (without decending into the depths of the earlier stuff in this thread) it does illustrate some strong points of the 64. I think we're all aware of these major differences between the platforms?

With the for's and against's of sprites already discussed previously, I can say that it would have been nice to have a bitmap colour mode in 320 on the Atari but on the other hand there are strengths in other areas. There's no 8-bit machine really that has it all, they have their strengths and weaknesses and we have our prefered platforms for various reasons. Personally trying to overcome limitations is something that keeps me interested in it, particularly with the A8 which hasn't been pushed to the edge yet.

[potatohead]

LOL@Brian

[Albert]

Oh my goodness, I've just discovered that retrocomputing is a big waste of time!!!!!!

I'm glad you brought this up, guess I'll be taking down AtariAge now!!

 

..Al

[Bryan]

Oh my goodness, I've just discovered that retrocomputing is a big waste of time!!!!!!

I'm glad you brought this up, guess I'll be taking down AtariAge now!!

 

..Al

I look forward to the redesigned PCAge.

[Oswald]

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

 

and the c64 has to juggle around somehow to show 128 colours?

 

I agree the JBJ that this game doesn't need to be in 320 pixel mode - and if it had been written at the time it would be in 160 mode without any major complaints. The version shown is demonstrating how to emulate the particular c64 look.

 

An Atari version could look like this ( Amstrad version )

 

a8 already has to juggle around to show more than 5 colors... furthermore c64 could do this game in hires, not so the a8.

[Oswald]

shows the differences of the machines nicely. while the a8 has to juggle around with pms, splitting screens, software sprite, on the c64 its all out of the book.

Yes (without decending into the depths of the earlier stuff in this thread) it does illustrate some strong points of the 64. I think we're all aware of these major differences between the platforms?

With the for's and against's of sprites already discussed previously, I can say that it would have been nice to have a bitmap colour mode in 320 on the Atari but on the other hand there are strengths in other areas. There's no 8-bit machine really that has it all, they have their strengths and weaknesses and we have our prefered platforms for various reasons. Personally trying to overcome limitations is something that keeps me interested in it, particularly with the A8 which hasn't been pushed to the edge yet.

 

well this ping pong game presents a quite primitive scenario, and still already a challenge to a8 HW where it needs cpu assistance already just to make up the screen. regarding strengths and weaknesses you could just take into account which strengths are more important. a handful of better games vs an overwhelming amount of better games also helps deciding.

[Tezz]

I look forward to the redesigned PCAge.

That would probably take itself down

[Tezz]

well this ping pong game presents a quite primitive scenario, and still already a challenge to a8 HW where it needs cpu assistance already just to make up the screen. regarding strengths and weaknesses you could just take into account which strengths are more important. a handful of better games vs an overwhelming amount of better games also helps deciding.

It's not really a challenge at all to do this on the A8, I was just making it into a challenge discussing doing it it a particular way which required some further effort. It was prob not the best place to discuss it with the nature of the original thread.

 

I don't think it really matters to me whether something can be done out of the box or with tricks and extra cpu power (which we have more of) as long as the end result is good.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Tezz

[emkay]

a8 already has to juggle around to show more than 5 colors... furthermore c64 could do this game in hires, not so the a8.

 

Where was still the problem, having this game on the Atari in 384x240?

 

This "juggling" around, you have mentioned, is nothing but the given hardware abilities of the A8.

Remember? You can move the whole "by cpu changed screen content" with one command on the A8. What has the C64 to offer here?

 

Heck, I really wished someone made a scrolling pinball game on the A8, like Pinball Dreams. People still cannot imagine what the Atari is capable of, until someone has proven it...

[Oswald]

well this ping pong game presents a quite primitive scenario, and still already a challenge to a8 HW where it needs cpu assistance already just to make up the screen. regarding strengths and weaknesses you could just take into account which strengths are more important. a handful of better games vs an overwhelming amount of better games also helps deciding.

It's not really a challenge at all to do this on the A8, I was just making it into a challenge discussing doing it it a particular way which required some further effort. It was prob not the best place to discuss it with the nature of the original thread.

 

I don't think it really matters to me whether something can be done out of the box or with tricks and extra cpu power (which we have more of) as long as the end result is good.

 

whats a challenge or not is subjective, the facts says a8 needs cpu assistance and soft sprites just to make the screen. the c64 can do it without using cpu. furthermore its irrevelant what matters to you, if something can be done out of the box or not that tells something of the compared systems.

[Oswald]

This "juggling" around, you have mentioned, is nothing but the given hardware abilities of the A8.

 

indeed. while the a8 juggles, the c64 can sit idle.

 

Remember? You can move the whole "by cpu changed screen content" with one command on the A8. What has the C64 to offer here?

 

countless 50fps scrolling shoot em ups and platform games in a quality a8 only dreams of.

 

Heck, I really wished someone made a scrolling pinball game on the A8, like Pinball Dreams. People still cannot imagine what the Atari is capable of, until someone has proven it...

 

maybe you missed the c64 port ? it would be fun compare it to the 4-5 colored a8 counterpart

[Bryan]

if something can be done out of the box or not that tells something of the compared systems.

 

1979: Atari 400/800

1980: Commodore Vic-20

1982: Commodore 64

 

It took Commodore two tries and three years to build something better than the Atari 800. You Commodore guys just aren't retro enough!.

[Oswald]

if something can be done out of the box or not that tells something of the compared systems.

 

1979: Atari 400/800

1980: Commodore Vic-20

1982: Commodore 64

 

It took Commodore two tries and three years to build something better than the Atari 800. You Commodore guys just aren't retro enough!.

 

vic 20 was the first computer to sell a million. its never a technical problem to make a fucking good machine for the time, but how much will it cost?

speaking about retro: commodore pet was the first home pc.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Oswald

[Bryan]

I'm sorry, I'm busy coding a 3D engine on my Mits Altar.

[Oswald]

I'm sorry, I'm busy coding a 3D engine on my Mits Altar.

 

 

good luck with the switches and the leds the altair was anything but a home pc.

 

 

ah yeah, a minicomputer KIT.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Oswald

[+skr]

speaking about retro: commodore pet was the first home pc.

 

What makes you believe that? I would tell the Altair or the Apple the first home pc.

[Oswald]

speaking about retro: commodore pet was the first home pc.

 

What makes you believe that? I would tell the Altair or the Apple the first home pc.

 

see previous post. altair was a kit - build yourself computer-.

 

so was the apple: "Apple was established on April 1, 1976 by Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Ronald Wayne,[12] to sell the Apple I personal computer kit. They were hand-built by Wozniak [13] [14] and first shown to the public at the Homebrew Computer Club. [15] The Apple I was sold as a motherboard (with CPU, RAM, and basic textual-video chips)—less than what is today considered a complete personal computer."

 

you are saying to a "bunch of boards" they were the first home pc, while at the same time the c= pet came with a monitor, casette, keyboard, and housing, basic, OS. the first ever of this kind "turn in and ready to use" as we imagine a pc todays.