Tezz Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now Awesome, I'll take a look into this new mode, I wonder how they overcame the attributes. I remember that they managed to break the mould a few years ago and worked out a method to achieve some raster effects but it was only used on a title screens logo until now if I recall right.. I don't follow the scene so that may all be old hat now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26080 That looks very nice! I love seeing new stuff being discovered on the old machines - I don't care what brand they are. Stephen Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 The trouble is there 10s of unnofficial conversions of every classic early 80s arcade game on the C64. There's probably 10 versions of Pacman alone so you have to really research the C64 games a lot to be honest.....Atarisoft did some great VIC20 conversions but the C64 stuff is almost worse sometimes I was just watching a video on google about the Vic20 and they run through a load of old games, the very early stuff, and they actually look bloody good Especially a lot of the Atarisoft stuff is really pretty good on it.. But such memories.. Radar Rat Race & Jelly Monsters They're probably the ones I uploaded Some are shockingly good all things considered including the Commodore Japan carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now Awesome, I'll take a look into this new mode, I wonder how they overcame the attributes. I remember that they managed to break the mould a few years ago and worked out a method to achieve some raster effects but it was only used on a title screens logo until now if I recall right.. I don't follow the scene so that may all be old hat now. There was a very old vertical(I think) scrolling shootemup on the the speccy that apparently got round the attribute clash issue around 84 but I can't remember the name of the damn game now and obviously at the time it wasn't important to me as a kid with another machine etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 actaully it does, maybe you should give the a8 version a listen Honestly joking aside I have listened to that tune for nearly 2 decades...even my favourite remake just cleans up most of the 'instruments' of the SID version. The Pokey version is OK but for me not as good for whatever reason. maybe it's because I listened to the SID version for 2 decades and prefer it (only heard the Pokey version a few months back on the youtube longplay video) I get what you mean. It's what you are accustomed to. I never liked SID and really liked pokey.If I had started with c64 I might have a different view. I hear the opposite from C64 friends, guess it one of those "to each his own"things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Poor programming again,also post 1985.. get a clue Rockford In other words, you want a comparison prior to the C64 coders finding their feet to skew things in the A8's favour... Well.. the current comparisons are after the A8 lost programmers and hence quality software,skewing things to the c64's favor.... not really a fair comparison either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Poor programming again,also post 1985.. get a clue Rockford In other words, you want a comparison prior to the C64 coders finding their feet to skew things in the A8's favour... That's just the problem about comparing software between both computers. C64 came on 1982-1983 and needs some years to get real use of his potential. In the other side, Atari has reach on 85-86 a great level of quality on his software, but soon will lose support from giant house developers, so consequently the quality and quantity software will decrease. I think 1985 and 1986 is a good couple of years to compare, because Atari has a great level and C64 games use all in-box features of his hardware. After 1987 C64 only find low and few portings on Atari side. Off course, C64 reached more quality games above 1990 for the full-exploit of his hardware. Atari never reached this point, it was leave out of the game market so soon. You analysis is spot on though I would say 84=85 is better for comparison. Rockford is just in denial about this time period. It also amazed me at the time that c64 ever took off as it really had no library compared to Atari. I don't mean to be insulting but we all know it was due to one thing and one thing only. Price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26080 That's very nice! Surprising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofsp...ead.php?t=26080 Wonderful! The difference between Atarians and some C64 users is that Atarians are able to appreciate other machines and don't go in their forums claiming Atari is better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26080 New mode is possibly not the correct term here? The only point to put in is that someone found a usable style for making "Speccy Art". Even though the graphics look more "neon" , it doesn't hurt the eye as some C64 piccys do. Good work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now Awesome, I'll take a look into this new mode, I wonder how they overcame the attributes. I remember that they managed to break the mould a few years ago and worked out a method to achieve some raster effects but it was only used on a title screens logo until now if I recall right.. I don't follow the scene so that may all be old hat now. From what I can make out from googling around and then translating it seems to be similar to FLI but it actually stuffs new attributes in on each scanline (or more usually every other scanline it seems due to cpu not being fast enough). That pic I believe uses that method and interlacing to get higher res and/or PAL blending to get more perceived colours. Supposedly on Pentagon machines (speccy ripoffs) there's a mod to blend the 2 screens at output so you don't get any flicker. *edit* In fact all the info is available here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum_graphic_modes#.228x2.22_attributes That pic is a mix of Hicolour and Gigascreen, now dubbed MultiGigascreen Pete Edited September 19, 2009 by PeteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 actaully it does, maybe you should give the a8 version a listen Honestly joking aside I have listened to that tune for nearly 2 decades...even my favourite remake just cleans up most of the 'instruments' of the SID version. The Pokey version is OK but for me not as good for whatever reason. maybe it's because I listened to the SID version for 2 decades and prefer it (only heard the Pokey version a few months back on the youtube longplay video) I get what you mean. It's what you are accustomed to. I never liked SID and really liked pokey.If I had started with c64 I might have a different view. I hear the opposite from C64 friends, guess it one of those "to each his own"things. Interestingly I like the sound effects on the A8 version (and most A8 games) probably because I had to personally save up for 8 months pocket money to get a VCS and had that for 2 years with nothing else so those type of effects have probably stayed in my positive thoughts There is even an IBM laptop who gives off a critically low battery alert that sounds the same as the two tone alert/alarm on VCS Star Raiders haha that sure brought back memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofsp...ead.php?t=26080 Wonderful! The difference between Atarians and some C64 users is that Atarians are able to appreciate other machines and don't go in their forums claiming Atari is better! Sweeping statement alert I played that game for quite a while, the graphics inside the Tetris window indeed don't look like speccy graphics at all and it's hard to see how it is done as there is no glitching, not a bad game of Tetris either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There was a very old vertical(I think) scrolling shootemup on the the speccy that apparently got round the attribute clash issue around 84 but I can't remember the name of the damn game now and obviously at the time it wasn't important to me as a kid with another machine etc. Light Force on the Faster Than Light Label? http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002882 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26080 New mode is possibly not the correct term here? The only point to put in is that someone found a usable style for making "Speccy Art". Even though the graphics look more "neon" , it doesn't hurt the eye as some C64 piccys do. Good work there. There are some very impressive 'trick' C64 screens too, most people choose an emulator with innaccurate over saturated colours though but on a real machine they look great (but flickery like all interlace palette swapping techniques on any machine at 25/30 fps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There was a very old vertical(I think) scrolling shootemup on the the speccy that apparently got round the attribute clash issue around 84 but I can't remember the name of the damn game now and obviously at the time it wasn't important to me as a kid with another machine etc. Light Force on the Faster Than Light Label? http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002882 Began with an X or a Z or something, on Lightforce you can tell it is just 2 colours per char block with no overlap, this game was supposed to eliminate that look with some raster scrolling or something to add a 3rd colour to some area giving a less restricted look. I'm sure it will be on the back of one of the magazines I had as a kid, probably Computer and Video Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 From what I can make out from googling around and then translating it seems to be similar to FLI but it actually stuffs new attributes in on each scanline (or more usually every other scanline it seems due to cpu not being fast enough). That pic I believe uses that method and interlacing to get higher res and/or PAL blending to get more perceived colours. Supposedly on Pentagon machines (speccy ripoffs) there's a mod to blend the 2 screens at output so you don't get any flicker. *edit* In fact all the info is available here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum_graphic_modes#.228x2.22_attributes That pic is a mix of Hicolour and Gigascreen, now dubbed MultiGigascreen I've always envied those Z80s for the rate they can shift memory.. The Pentagon modes I'm not so keen on.. It's that whole stock versus non-stock thing, and for me the Pentagons are just it's hot-rodded eastern-bloc cousins, though 'stock' in their own right, but maybe it's just me.. But that picture was run on a 128K spectrum so all's good But that picture just blew me away.. I'm a big fan of hi-res art like that on both C64 and Spectrum, and always find it amazing what artists can do with only 2 colours per 8x2, or 8x4, or 8x8 depending upon your modes.. I just wish programmers would be braver and do stuff in this modes (more aimed at 64 here).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Poor programming again,also post 1985.. get a clue Rockford In other words, you want a comparison prior to the C64 coders finding their feet to skew things in the A8's favour... That's just the problem about comparing software between both computers. C64 came on 1982-1983 and needs some years to get real use of his potential. In the other side, Atari has reach on 85-86 a great level of quality on his software, but soon will lose support from giant house developers, so consequently the quality and quantity software will decrease. I think 1985 and 1986 is a good couple of years to compare, because Atari has a great level and C64 games use all in-box features of his hardware. After 1987 C64 only find low and few portings on Atari side. Off course, C64 reached more quality games above 1990 for the full-exploit of his hardware. Atari never reached this point, it was leave out of the game market so soon. You analysis is spot on though I would say 84=85 is better for comparison. Rockford is just in denial about this time period. It also amazed me at the time that c64 ever took off as it really had no library compared to Atari. I don't mean to be insulting but we all know it was due to one thing and one thing only. Price. Well, lets' see.... so far there have been Chimera (85), Starquake (85), 180 (86), Green Beret (86), Trolls and Tribulations (84) Night driver (heck, even 82 !!!). Atarians stop caviling and chill out. BTW, I'm going to compare more games from this period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Light Force on the Faster Than Light Label? http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002882 Looking at the screenshots here (and in other places) it looks like all the fuss was about it not having attribute clash, which, judging by the screenshots at least, looks to be true simply because it draws everything character aligned anyway Though the title screen picture (specifically the Lightmation logo) is making me think maybe it makes use of artifacting, if artifacting actually occurs on a Speccy ? http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=SinclairUser/Issue055/Pages/SinclairUser05500032.jpg Edited September 19, 2009 by andym00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTIQ Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 That's just the problem about comparing software between both computers. C64 came on 1982-1983 and needs some years to get real use of his potential. In the other side, Atari has reach on 85-86 a great level of quality on his software, but soon will lose support from giant house developers, so consequently the quality and quantity software will decrease. i still find it really hard to understand what actually happened to leave the A8 in that position from 1985; looking at the budget games on the C64 (which are a good benchmark of what backroom coders were up to), the C64 went from strength to strengh but the A8 had almost nothing apart from the odd title like Matta Blatta or Extirpator and conversions such as Action Biker or the titles i listed previously. i know i'm sounding like a stuck record, but where'd everyone go to?!! The ST/Amiga? 1. I remember becoming aware that Atari had lost the 8-bit format war. After the 83/4 crash the big American software companies refocused on the C64 and everyone else followed suit. 2. I'm geeky so I didn't want to switch to the C64 because it isn't as good as the A8 in some ways. 3. Companies were dropping A8 support in order to develop for the ST/Amiga so I upgraded to the Amiga as quickly as I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I only just saw this from the Sundown party, but had to post it for obvious reasons.. So, the Speccy now has nice wacky hires colour modes now And apparently someones writing a game in this wacky mode.. http://www.worldofsp...ead.php?t=26080 Wonderful! It should be mentioned that this picture cannot be displayed by a Sinclair ZX Spectrum but only by one of the later Speccy clones. Anyway it's still awesome. The difference between Atarians and some C64 users is that Atarians are able to appreciate other machines and don't go in their forums claiming Atari is better! If the entire C64 scene came here this would become a C64 forum. Only few of us C64 people come here and most of those who come here do it because they are actually interested in Atari and not to "claim C64 is better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 OK today, a game from "golden era of Atari" - 1984 19 - PITSTOP II C64 C64 C64 The C64 version is fast, plays smoothly and has much better animation. The atari version is horribly slow and has poor animation. On Atari cars always look the same (there are very few, if any, frames of animation) and their wheels never turn (it looks comical ). C64 outdistances Atari again. ATARI ATARI ATARI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 If only Epyx had ported the game... Why they chose Synergistic Software to do the job is beyond me. The program appears to be written in compiled BASIC or something. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I too love the new Speccy work. Re: Artifacting. Does the Speccy output a C64 style color signal, or an Atari style one where the color clocks are fixed in relation to the pixels? And there is NTSC style artifacting, not really possible on C64 style color. (interlaced color) And then there is PAL style, which is. Is that a PAL Speccy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 If only Epyx had ported the game... Why they chose Synergistic Software to do the job is beyond me. The program appears to be written in compiled BASIC or something. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com You can do it faster in Basic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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