Atari v Commodore

[atarian63]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

Here in the US, they were $199 at a time when Atari was $349. So not only was the c64 cheaper is was so incredibly cheaply made.

When exactly and which Atari ? A800 or A800 XL ? They were differently priced (since 800 XL was cheaply made), and I was talking about A800 XL (scroll up if needed).

The XL was again light years better in quality. C64 was made with tin foil,literally..Also the 1200xl was released in 82 like the c64, so very nice in quality and one of the best keyboards ever.

Edited October 11, 2009 by atarian63

[Irgendwer]

Would be interesting:

 

From a rating from 0 to 10 (0=crap, 10=perfect), how would you rate the C64 and A8 considering 8-bit systems?

[atarian63]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

 

No, another fact twisted with a biased mentality and the myth of C64 being more expensive being propated. I purchased my Atari 800 for $899 and around that time C64 was around $500. Just doing some random searches on the internet is not going to help. You have compare prices at same time from start of marketing of C64 and onwards where the starting is more significant. What the heck is the point of finding some expensive prices if the C64 is already flooded the market (i.e., inferior product has already saturated the market and left no choice to the competitor but to drop prices and take losses).

Again, I was talking about A800 XL vs C64, NOT A800 vs C64 (scroll up). So, who is twisting the facts ? It seems that only you

Weren't you told by the moderators to stop with the insults? Knock it off.

[atarian63]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

 

No, another fact twisted with a biased mentality and the myth of C64 being more expensive being propated. I purchased my Atari 800 for $899 and around that time C64 was around $500. Just doing some random searches on the internet is not going to help. You have compare prices at same time from start of marketing of C64 and onwards where the starting is more significant. What the heck is the point of finding some expensive prices if the C64 is already flooded the market (i.e., inferior product has already saturated the market and left no choice to the competitor but to drop prices and take losses).

 

If Atari or anyone else had commissioned the VIC-II and the SID the cost of the computer would be $200-300 MORE, the C64 was only cheaper than the A8 at launch because Jack Tramiel had the foresight to actually purchase his own chip design and manufacturing facility after Texas Instruments screwed CBM when dumping calculators at cost in the market place. The VIC-II and SID were at cost price to Commodore, if Atari had the foresight to purchase a chip fab business then they could have competed on price, they didn't and they lost market share like a there was no tomorrow.

 

If you can't follow this logic about the pricing then it's not my fault but that is how it is and just shows a lack of business understanding or basic mathematical skills relating to basic running of any business, but that is the reason the C64 launched at the price it did. If you wan't to compare cars well the A8 was like a twin carburetted engine and the C64 with fuel injection. Progress brings many improvements like high levels of colour resolutions in previously monochrome resolutions and sophisticated feature rich analogue synthesizer chips that weren't far off some synthesizers of 1982 in all but available sound channels and filter consistency.

 

Edit...Dropzone is just a defender clone, far more sophisticated shootem ups (both technically and playability wise) were coded later on...you show me Dropzone and I show you an incredible translation of an Amiga specification exceeding arcade board called Salamander/Lifeforce Archer Maclean couldn't have code Uridium a far technically superior game....and then there is Morpheus from the coder of C64 Uridium which would make Archer faint just thinking how to even do that game.

 

Dropzone is nice but it is hardly cutting edge, and it's a bit mad for anyone to assign this game as some sort of show of the technical possibilities of either machine really come on.

1984 vs what? 1990 or so. dive me a break..

Tin foil and a bad keyboard and a high failure rate. I had customers takeing 2-3 tries to get one that lasted more than 30 days.So much for the great foresight of Jack Tramiel..

[atarian63]

Poor job, poor programming. The same usual. How about that 1990 c64 title vs Atari 2600, now there is a real comparison.

[atarian63]

..jibber jabber, mumble mumble, golden era..

 

Obviously the film industry disagrees on the on-screen looks and cultural recognition of such things

 

Inspired by the other thread where there's apparently atari disk drive sounds (woohoo!) in a film, I thought I'd browse the computer appearances on film and TV

 

Judging by this site, that seems to having nothing better to do than keep track of on screen appearances, the Atari family was clearly more Richard Kiel than Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

And so, for the Atari family we have..

• 
  

1200 XL

• Whiz Kids - Episode 9 "Red Star Rising" (1983)

400

• Micro Men (2009)

600/800 XL

• Big (1988) • D.A.R.Y.L. (1985) • Klatwa doliny wezy (1987)

800

• Chocky (1984) • Max Dugan Returns (1983) • Micro Men (2009) • Time Walker (1982)

Mega ST

• The One Game (1988)

Portfolio

• Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991)

ST

• 23 (1998) • Chocky's Challenge (1986) • Joshua Tree (1993) • Married with Children - Season 7, Episode 11 "Old College Try" (1992)

STacy

• Nothing But Trouble (1991)

And for the glamour-puss that is the Commodore family

• 
  

128

• Crash and Burn (1990) • Klatwa doliny wezy (1987)

64

• 23 (1998) • Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 3 "Moffett's Ghost" (1984) • Being Erica - Season 1, Episode 1 "Dr. Tom" (2009) • Electric Dreams (1984) • G.O.R.A. (2004) • Der Himmel über Berlin (1987) • Klatwa doliny wezy (1987) • MacGyver - Season 1, Episode 15 "The Enemy Within" (1986) • Micro Men (2009) • Nightmares and Dreamscapes: From the Stories of Stephen King - Episode 4 (2006) • Red Dwarf - Season 1, Episode 5 (1988) • Torrente 2: Misión en Marbella (2001) • Trois Couleurs: Rouge (1994) • Whiz Kids - Episode 6 "Airwave Anarchy" (1983)

64C

• 23 (1998)

Amiga 1000

• Bionic Showdown: The Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman (1989) • Crash and Burn (1990) • Disorderlies (1987) • Food of the Gods II (1989) • Get Smart, Again! (1989) • Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey (1993) • Me Myself I (1999) • Not Quite Human (1987) • Sidekicks (1992) • Sledge Hammer! - Season 1, Episode 22 "The Spa Who Loved Me" (1987)

Amiga 1200

• Bones - Season 3, Episode 7 "Boy in the Time Capsule" (2007)

Amiga 2000

• ALF - Season 4, Episode 4 "We're in the Money" (1989) • Bionic Showdown: The Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman (1989) • The Gods Must Be Crazy II (1989) • Screwball Hotel (1988) • Sidekicks (1992) • The Substitute (1996) • Trancers II (1991) • Wiseguy - Season 1, Episode 14 "Smokey Mountain Requiem" (1988)

Amiga 500

• Betrayed (1988) • Ebba och Didrik - Season 1, Episode 3 (1990) • The Gods Must Be Crazy II (1989) • The Rachel Papers (1989) • Stepfather III (1992)

CBM-II

• The Jewel of the Nile (1985)

PET 2001

• The Adventures of Bob & Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew (1983) • Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 2 "Firestorm" (1984) • Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 12 "Condemned" (1985) • Arrested Development - Season 3 "Family Ties" (2006) • Ashes to Ashes (2008) • Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - Season 2, Episode 6 "Mark of the Saurian" (1981) • The IT Crowd - Season 1 (2006) • The IT Crowd - Season 3 (2008) • Look Around You - Season 1 (2002) • Look Around You - Season 2, Episode 5 "Computers" (2005) • Micro Men (2009) • Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan (1982) • Street Hawk - Season 1, Episode 1 (1985) • Terminator 3 (2003) • Whiz Kids - Episode 6 "Airwave Anarchy" (1983)

Plus/4

• Ebba och Didrik - Season 1, Episode 3 (1990)

SX64

• 23 (1998) • ALF - Season 1, Episode 4 "Pennsylvania 6-5000" (1986)

VIC-20

• Airplane II: The Sequel (1982) • Class of Nuke 'Em High Part II: Subhumanoid Meltdown (1991) • The Philadelphia Experiment (1984) • What Waits Below (1984)

Obviously since we've been discussing 'computers' I opted to leave out the VCS and family since it would be clearly out-gunned in on-screen appearances when compared to the the Ultimax & Commodore-GS consoles

Using Hollywood as an example is really not much help. I would not want to hold up thoses degenerates for any examples..

[atariksi]

 

Nor do many of your games use higher res. For slow-processor based machines, it's better to have many lower resolution options since they help to accelerate screen updates. I don't buy the argument that just because something is in higher resolution, it makes it better (see Gyruss discussion). Even most Amiga/ST games are in 320*200 (lower-res) rather than 640*200. If game objects are well-defined in 160*200, then why bother with higher-res. which is more restricted on both machines.

 

oh behave.

 

the use of lower resolutions on the 64, ST, and amiga has nothing to do with processing requirements and everything to do with more available colours in the lower modes.

 

the 64 in "hi res" is basically a speccy mode with sprites. and who would have bought and ST game in 4 colour medium res or 2 colour hi res?

 

Steve

 

You're not even reading what's written. You are speculating that it's the color depth. Just like you have more restricted colors going from 160*200->320*200, so you have similar restrictions going from 320*200-> 640*200 on Amiga/ST. In fact, Amiga games don't use 6-bit depth at all and the 32-colors are easily do-able at 640*200. So it's not the color depth.

[atarian63]

Atariksi

 

but you bought an 800 and the prices of c64s then i would assume in the uk to be £350. thats the price i remember them being in '83 when i had a Dragon (coco 1 compatible). that price wasnt cheap. it was WAY above the affordable price over in the UK.

 

and if that statement that rockford posted is accurate (and i have no reason to believe its isnt. have you?), then the price of an 800xl in the UK at the end of '84 would have been £130(ish).

 

well seeing as how the 64 took of big in the UK in '85 when they were somewhere between £175 and £199 and again referring to that document the 800xl would have been £130(ish), then the 800xl would have the advantage of being "cheap ass" and not the c64.

 

carry on

XL machines in 84 were being liquidated at a loss by cheap ass Jack Tramiel from Commodore.

Actually the machines were not at a loss as he got the companie for a song and a dance,but there were better machines than the c64 so it was quite a bargain. I believe consumer reports in the us said in 84 or 85 the 800xl was a best buy!

This is all different than the 1982 to 84 interation of the poor quality and cheaply made c64.

[atariksi]

Atariksi

 

but you bought an 800 and the prices of c64s then i would assume in the uk to be £350. thats the price i remember them being in '83 when i had a Dragon (coco 1 compatible). that price wasnt cheap. it was WAY above the affordable price over in the UK.

 

and if that statement that rockford posted is accurate (and i have no reason to believe its isnt. have you?), then the price of an 800xl in the UK at the end of '84 would have been £130(ish).

 

well seeing as how the 64 took of big in the UK in '85 when they were somewhere between £175 and £199 and again referring to that document the 800xl would have been £130(ish), then the 800xl would have the advantage of being "cheap ass" and not the c64.

 

carry on

 

So A800 never made it to Europe-- need some more evidence for that. I don't think it establishes Atari was less expensive regardless as USA stats definitely show Atari was more expensive and marketing started in USA.

[Barnacle boy]

Poor job, poor programming. The same usual.

 

'The same usual' indeed.

 

I think the same usual in question is in fact your same usual golden rule, which apparently goes like so:

 

Any bad game on Atari can be safely dismissed as a mere case of poor programming and/or being past the elusive GOLDEN AGE.

 

Any bad game on c64 is damning proof of the system being a blight upon mankind!!!

 

 

 

BTW, on the previous page you said:

 

What a silly reply, you have been show the facts on many occasions and still just dont get it.

...so I invited you to clearly state any facts you've presented that I haven't grasped. Have you managed to come up with anything yet, or was that just a bit of good ol' bluff and bluster?

[STE'86]

 

XL machines in 84 were being liquidated at a loss by cheap ass Jack Tramiel from Commodore.

Actually the machines were not at a loss as he got the companie for a song and a dance,but there were better machines than the c64 so it was quite a bargain. I believe consumer reports in the us said in 84 or 85 the 800xl was a best buy!

This is all different than the 1982 to 84 interation of the poor quality and cheaply made c64.

 

so again for the hard of hearing apparently..

 

in late 1984 the "superior" 800xls were being liquidated at £130 and in the middle of '85 the "cheaply made crap old c64" were starting to sell like hot cakes at £175-200. what exactly does that do to your constantly repeated theory of the 64 outselling the a8 simply because it was cheaper. because it obviously wasn't the case.

[Irgendwer]

 

fire away then. (edit my apologies u have FS2 aswell) anymore?

 

Yepp, we have FS2. The first others which come into my mind are:

 

Star Wars (Ian Copeland version )

Battlezone

Tomahawk

Shadow Hawk One

 

and with a little bit of good will you can also take

 

F-15 Strike Eagle (Enemy Jets are at least 3D) and

GATO

 

into account.

 

edit: i have looked at crisis mountain. what i want to see are games that "look" good that arent the "glorious 8" there are plenty of rubbish looking games that play really well on all formats (pete and i played "space taxi" for hours on the 64) however i keep getting told that there are great looking games out there so i want to see them.

 

Does your "glorious 8" include "Alley Cat" and "Final Legacy" (still enjoy the destroyer sequence)?

Could you please recapitulate your "glorious 8" titles?

[Irgendwer]

I guess I should patch B'n W on A8 to get away of the bad colors... same like with Summer Games or is the pig-like purple same on NTSC like on PAL?

 

 

AFAIR the colours are the smallest problem. The game makes no fun due to the permanently interruptions while a (re-)load of a character animation occurs. Wonder if the C64 version is fluid?

[STE'86]

 

You're not even reading what's written. You are speculating that it's the color depth. Just like you have more restricted colors going from 160*200->320*200, so you have similar restrictions going from 320*200-> 640*200 on Amiga/ST. In fact, Amiga games don't use 6-bit depth at all and the 32-colors are easily do-able at 640*200. So it's not the color depth.

 

i am not speculating anything. i speak from experience as being a graphic designer on all major 8bit and both the 16 bits for 10 years.

 

i KNOW the reason we used the lower modes was because of increased colour capability on all machines. its simple logistics lower resolutions gave better colour specs, to do a game u need the best colour capability u can ergo u use the lower modes.

 

and u can spout all u want about the amiga but it too came down to logistics. 2 reasons:

 

1. nobody is going to pay twice for st/amiga graphics

2. you had to fit the damned thing on 1 or 2 720k disks and max of 1 meg ram. why dont u calculate how much extra space is required to do 32 colour graphics at 640 as opposed to 320?

 

Steve

[Barnacle boy]

Could you even do 32 colour graphics at 640 res on non-AGA Amigas? (not counting copperlist effects) I thought 640 res was limited to 16 colours.

[andym00]

Could you even do 32 colour graphics at 640 res on non-AGA Amigas? (not counting copperlist effects) I thought 640 res was limited to 16 colours.

 

You couldn't, he's wrong.. It had 6 bit modes, HAM (Hold and Modify) and EHB (Extra Half Bright) which were both used in games.. And it couldn't do 5 bitplanes at 640 resolution, 4 bitplanes was the maximum as you thought..

Edited October 11, 2009 by andym00

[emkay]

I guess I should patch B'n W on A8 to get away of the bad colors...

 

[scratches head] What are the odds that the hardware sprites aren't in use there and could be used to build a grey for the floor of the ring...?

 

 

Good Question. The game is odd anyways. Slow as hell , no PM overlay used.... but it uses MUCH memory.

It seems, the colour missmatch has the roots at the NTSC offset than can happen on different machines. You see this "deadlike" pink very often in artworks that were done in an NTSC environment. But the title screen is still a kick in the watchers face. I wonder what they might have thought when doing this.

[STE'86]

 

Yepp, we have FS2. The first others which come into my mind are:

 

Star Wars (Ian Copeland version )

Battlezone

Tomahawk

Shadow Hawk One

 

and with a little bit of good will you can also take

 

F-15 Strike Eagle (Enemy Jets are at least 3D) and

GATO

 

into account.

 

Does your "glorious 8" include "Alley Cat" and "Final Legacy" (still enjoy the destroyer sequence)?

Could you please recapitulate your "glorious 8" titles?

 

yes can definitely include Tomahawk (i had forgotten totally that one even tho i had it myself).

and to a lesser degree battlezone, but yes still in there.

 

shadow hawk 1 and starwars however hmmm no. not "real" 3d because u have no control over your own movement. star wars looks like a decent conversion tho.

 

sorry cant do f15 either (even tho it was one of my 1984 favourites) simply because it relies on sprites and characters to much. same as the other MP stuff till gunship really. but it is more "vector" than the rest of them.

 

Gato i cant tell from the screenies. possibly a "no" simply because it probably works like Silent Service?

 

as for Alley Cat and Final Legacy well tbh these look ok for their time but i really want to see stuff thats of "dropzone" "ik" sort of quality

 

This isnt just trolling btw i want to see if there ARE any really good looking games to compare against when doing graphics.

 

post more stuff with screenies if u can saves me having Atarimania open all the time

 

Steve

[ANTIQ]

I guess I should patch B'n W on A8 to get away of the bad colors...

 

[scratches head] What are the odds that the hardware sprites aren't in use there and could be used to build a grey for the floor of the ring...?

 

 

Good Question. The game is odd anyways. Slow as hell , no PM overlay used.... but it uses MUCH memory.

It seems, the colour missmatch has the roots at the NTSC offset than can happen on different machines. You see this "deadlike" pink very often in artworks that were done in an NTSC environment. But the title screen is still a kick in the watchers face. I wonder what they might have thought when doing this.

 

It's running on a PC emulator.

[+wood_jl]

I'm not sure what the point of this particular post is. Yes, they sold more Commodore computers....a whole lot more. Understood. That meant Hollywood prop guys could more easily and cheaply get their hands on them for movie props....got it...no mystery there.

 

Is this supposed to make me want one? If not, please extrapolate on the point.

 

 

 

..jibber jabber, mumble mumble, golden era..

 

Obviously the film industry disagrees on the on-screen looks and cultural recognition of such things

 

Inspired by the other thread where there's apparently atari disk drive sounds (woohoo!) in a film, I thought I'd browse the computer appearances on film and TV

 

Judging by this site, that seems to having nothing better to do than keep track of on screen appearances, the Atari family was clearly more Richard Kiel than Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

And so, for the Atari family we have..

• 
  

1200 XL

Whiz Kids - Episode 9 "Red Star Rising" (1983)

400

Micro Men (2009)

600/800 XL

Big (1988) D.A.R.Y.L. (1985) Klatwa doliny wezy (1987)

800

Chocky (1984) Max Dugan Returns (1983) Micro Men (2009) Time Walker (1982)

Mega ST

The One Game (1988)

Portfolio

Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991)

ST

23 (1998) Chocky's Challenge (1986) Joshua Tree (1993) Married with Children - Season 7, Episode 11 "Old College Try" (1992)

STacy

Nothing But Trouble (1991)

And for the glamour-puss that is the Commodore family

• 
  

128

Crash and Burn (1990) Klatwa doliny wezy (1987)

64

23 (1998) Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 3 "Moffett's Ghost" (1984) Being Erica - Season 1, Episode 1 "Dr. Tom" (2009) Electric Dreams (1984) G.O.R.A. (2004) Der Himmel über Berlin (1987) Klatwa doliny wezy (1987) MacGyver - Season 1, Episode 15 "The Enemy Within" (1986) Micro Men (2009) Nightmares and Dreamscapes: From the Stories of Stephen King - Episode 4 (2006) Red Dwarf - Season 1, Episode 5 (1988) Torrente 2: Misión en Marbella (2001) Trois Couleurs: Rouge (1994) Whiz Kids - Episode 6 "Airwave Anarchy" (1983)

64C

23 (1998)

Amiga 1000

Bionic Showdown: The Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman (1989) Crash and Burn (1990) Disorderlies (1987) Food of the Gods II (1989) Get Smart, Again! (1989) Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey (1993) Me Myself I (1999) Not Quite Human (1987) Sidekicks (1992) Sledge Hammer! - Season 1, Episode 22 "The Spa Who Loved Me" (1987)

Amiga 1200

Bones - Season 3, Episode 7 "Boy in the Time Capsule" (2007)

Amiga 2000

ALF - Season 4, Episode 4 "We're in the Money" (1989) Bionic Showdown: The Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman (1989) The Gods Must Be Crazy II (1989) Screwball Hotel (1988) Sidekicks (1992) The Substitute (1996) Trancers II (1991) Wiseguy - Season 1, Episode 14 "Smokey Mountain Requiem" (1988)

Amiga 500

Betrayed (1988) Ebba och Didrik - Season 1, Episode 3 (1990) The Gods Must Be Crazy II (1989) The Rachel Papers (1989) Stepfather III (1992)

CBM-II

The Jewel of the Nile (1985)

PET 2001

The Adventures of Bob & Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew (1983) Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 2 "Firestorm" (1984) Airwolf - Season 2, Episode 12 "Condemned" (1985) Arrested Development - Season 3 "Family Ties" (2006) Ashes to Ashes (2008) Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - Season 2, Episode 6 "Mark of the Saurian" (1981) The IT Crowd - Season 1 (2006) The IT Crowd - Season 3 (2008) Look Around You - Season 1 (2002) Look Around You - Season 2, Episode 5 "Computers" (2005) Micro Men (2009) Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan (1982) Street Hawk - Season 1, Episode 1 (1985) Terminator 3 (2003) Whiz Kids - Episode 6 "Airwave Anarchy" (1983)

Plus/4

Ebba och Didrik - Season 1, Episode 3 (1990)

SX64

23 (1998) ALF - Season 1, Episode 4 "Pennsylvania 6-5000" (1986)

VIC-20

Airplane II: The Sequel (1982) Class of Nuke 'Em High Part II: Subhumanoid Meltdown (1991) The Philadelphia Experiment (1984) What Waits Below (1984)

Obviously since we've been discussing 'computers' I opted to leave out the VCS and family since it would be clearly out-gunned in on-screen appearances when compared to the the Ultimax & Commodore-GS consoles

Edited October 11, 2009 by wood_jl

[Irgendwer]

Gato i cant tell from the screenies. possibly a "no" simply because it probably works like Silent Service?

 

Maybe this helps:

 

http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-8-bit/gato/screenshots

 

as for Alley Cat and Final Legacy well tbh these look ok for their time but i really want to see stuff thats of "dropzone" "ik" sort of quality

 

Alley Cat is great. Also the sound FX are outstanding.

 

This isnt just trolling btw i want to see if there ARE any really good looking games to compare against when doing graphics.

 

Do you like to know good looking games (like 'Space Lobsters' below) or are you interested in good games with a good look too? (Makes a big difference...)

 

Still like a recapitulation of your 'great 8'?!

[+wood_jl]

Clearly, they sold more Commodore computers than Atari. (Nobody aruges with that fact). Clearly, there are many consequences because of that fact. Some of the consequences don't matter - like the fact that they historically showed more Commodore computers in old TV shows and movies (that nobody watches anymore, btw).

 

Some of the consequences are still seen. In ANY group, there's going to be a bit of a lunatic fringe, of a certain small percentage. The larger the group, the larger the fringe. Could this possibly explain why Commodore users flock to Atari Age to argue? Could it also explain why we don't EVER see rabid Atari users on Lemon64 (etc) behaving in such a way? You make the call.

 

I read Lemon 64 (a fine site, actually - if you have a C64 and I do) and I **NEVER** see this sort of thing - rabid Atari users showing up to insult and argue. Why? Is it because Atari users - being a smaller group (and fringe) don't have the numbers to do that? Is it that they don't care? Are Atari users secure enough in their love for Atari that they just stick to Atari Age and don't feel the need to cross over? I'm just very curious - as everyone should be - why there is the discrepancy?

 

Clearly, however, not all Commodore users are alike. There are a bunch of fine folks over at Lemon64; they are as helpful and friendly, as are most Atari users over here. Those guys are CLEARLY NOT the Commodore users who come over here to flamewar. It's just kind of sad - the damage that you flamewar/insult type Commodore users who come here do - in the eyes of Atari users who have no reason to stray from Atari Age. After seeing this behavior, it's likely they'll NEVER buy a Commodore and check it out. Mission accomplished? Are you just here to argue for cheap, sicko entertainment? Are you trying to convince others to get a Commodore? Are you trying to piss them off so they never do? What is it?

 

One thing is for sure. No matter who you are, and no matter which of these computers you think is so great, keep this in mind. You didn't design the thing. You had NOTHING to do with it; it's not your handiwork. If you'd have died or have never been conceived, the scene would be the way it is now - YOU'RE JUST ONE PERSON and you really don't matter in the grander scheme. So please quit gloating like somehow because you choose (what YOU consider) the better machine - it really has nothing to do with you and it's no basis to feel good about yourself. It looks positively childish. Pride yourself on something that YOU actually had something to do with - your education, etc. If you think you're "the man" let's hear about that kind of stuff, not which brand you bought.

Edited October 11, 2009 by wood_jl

[Barnacle boy]

I guess I should patch B'n W on A8 to get away of the bad colors... same like with Summer Games or is the pig-like purple same on NTSC like on PAL?

 

Interesting. The shots on Mobygames are considerably less porcine indeed, if a little red:

 

 

With its static background and the generally horizontal nature of the elements within that background, perhaps this game would have been a good candidate for some nifty DLI colour trickery.

 

 

@wood_jl: some of us just like to stick up for the humble c64 when mean nasty atari fans say outrageous things about it.

 

Generally, I've tried to avoid insulting the Atari in this thread, because 1) I don't really dislike the system, and 2) I'm aware that it's impolite to roll up to a forum dedicated to a particular platform only to try to disparage said platform.

 

Having said that though, certain posters have made it hard to resist making a few digs at the good old Atari from time to time.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Barnacle boy

[emkay]

I guess I should patch B'n W on A8 to get away of the bad colors... same like with Summer Games or is the pig-like purple same on NTSC like on PAL?

 

Interesting. The shots on Mobygames are considerably less porcine indeed, if a little red:

 

 

With its static background and the generally horizontal nature of the elements within that background, perhaps this game would have been a good candidate for some nifty DLI colour trickery.

 

 

 

This suits more to the NTSC where the game was build on. Some developers made software on the A8 without recognizing that the palette was "off" . That machines had to be adjusted.

 

With some slight changes on the graphics, the posts could have been enhanced with missiles and the ropes could have been set with the players for example.

 

 

The coders must have been really dumb belonging to the a8's Hardware, or else... I don't know, why the stars had to be low ressed, because in hires they were unicolour anyways.

Edited October 11, 2009 by emkay

[Allas]

Poor job, poor programming. The same usual. How about that 1990 c64 title vs Atari 2600, now there is a real comparison.

 

 

Honestly, I think if an Atari game doesn't have DLIs on screen, only is fast production for money, the minimal effort for money.