What games showed Jag's power effectively?

[Gorf]

Zero5 is a fun one - quite the arcade feel, I like that style of shooter. Yes, I think someone mentioned it has a good amount of assembler coding in it. It's a later release by Telegames so probably so, as you say.

 

 

I would not count on that as fact. Im pretty sure they are over utuilizng the 68k

Eeeryone did. Everyone except Scat-o-Logic....and soon....3DSSS,llc.

[Punisher5.0]

I would not count on that as fact. Im pretty sure they are over utuilizng the 68k

Eeeryone did. Everyone except Scat-o-Logic....and soon....3DSSS,llc.

 

I think BattleSphere used the 68k quite a bit. The only thing I have to base that off of is heat signatures though (which is still a good indicator of processor load). When I was debating on whether or not I should put heatsinks on the procs I tested how much heat they put out with different games. Much to my surprise BS made the 68k a lot hotter than Tempest did. I used a Fluke DMM to determine temperature.

[Gorf]

I would not count on that as fact. Im pretty sure they are over utuilizng the 68k

Eeeryone did. Everyone except Scat-o-Logic....and soon....3DSSS,llc.

 

I think BattleSphere used the 68k quite a bit. The only thing I have to base that off of is heat signatures though (which is still a good indicator of processor load). When I was debating on whether or not I should put heatsinks on the procs I tested how much heat they put out with different games. Much to my surprise BS made the 68k a lot hotter than Tempest did. I used a Fluke DMM to determine temperature.

 

That is becasue it is sitting idle. You can get just as much heat sig from idle processors as

you can one fully loaded. Besides if you know the first thing about electronics and current

flow, different conditions in the system have much more to do with why a chip heats and

it usually has very little to do with the processors load. That does cause more current flow

and therefore more heat but I would never use a temperature to determine which chip does what.

 

Besides, being very close to both Scott and Doug, I can tell you there is much less 68k code

in there than in tempest....by a long shot actually. Go look at the sources yourself. I do believe

they are available. You will see that Tempest uses A LOT of 68k code.

 

 

the reason Jeff was able to do what he did is he like no one I ever seen becomes one with the

silicon. He could make a 4040 rock, never mind a 68k.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Gorf

[oky2000]

Well, i would say any game with a polygon based engine that appeared on the Jaguar, can not be done on SNES or Genesis effectibly, unless they run at a frame per year, and the color count was reduced to a handful. Just check out Hard Driving and Steel Talons on those systems. Its like the Jag attempting to run Dreamcast games!

As for the SNES handling AVP, just look at how the SNES port of Wolfenstein turned out, AVP would turn out way worst not only looks wise but i think also the AI would suffer.

 

But the Megadrive version of Virtua Racing is miles better than any polygon racing game on the Jag and all it is is a cheap DSP on a cart helping the 68k in the console really for $10. Apart from that though probably not much else.

 

Still we will never know because most games on the Jag were done really badly and used Amiga/SNES graphics anyway for non 3D stuff. I'm sure the Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

[Gorf]

But the Megadrive version of Virtua Racing is miles better than any polygon racing game on the Jag and all it is is a cheap DSP on a cart helping the 68k in the console really for $10. Apart from that though probably not much else.

 

 

Um not really.

Miles better means it would have miles more color than a Jag game. It dont.

IT also means miles more polygons......it dont.

 

Since there is only ONE poly racer on the Jag, this statement is rather ridiculous.

Also you never saw WTR. Textured poly racer. Much better but still not the best

Jag can do, but certainly would choke the Genny. Checkered Flag has only one

problem. The controls. Other than that it's would have been a great game....

if you like racers that is.

 

Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

 

In it's sleep.

[oky2000]

Ahh I mean better as in frame rate/speed. Yes the polygons and colour depth are not the same but playability is what matters for sales of the console really. The 32X version which is a fairer comparison is also faster so miles better to play regardless of how sophisticated the polygons are.

 

Club drive is another one, that's not slow though but looks quite rubbish to play on the videos and the graphics look like Hard Drivin on a 16bit machine.

 

I posted about WTR in another thread about AVGN Jaguar review, it does look really good actually, you can forgive the frame rate because it is quite nicely detailed and still looks fast enough to play well

 

Like I say in that AVGN thread it is more the bad coding and not the machine. I found an excellent looking Descent clone on Youtube just now

 

I guess what I am trying to say is given the sprite scaling quality of Super Burnout I think Atari would have been better to personally fund development of something like Power Drift which Activision had bought the right to already and done that. Power Drift 99% arcade perfect would have sold a lot more Jags than Chequered Flag or Club Drive to be honest. Ditto with Afterburner and well anything using that kind of technology.

 

It's best to show your strengths to customers than weaknesses, and around that time a pixel perfect copy of Galaxy Force II would have been better than Cybermorph too really. You have to get to a certain level of 3D sophistication for people to go wow...and sadly that level was Playstation 1 and Ridge Racer (which its self is quite flawed compared to the colour and polygon resolution of the arcade). They just were trying too hard for something that wasn't going to be, arcade games need to be fast and Daytona on the Saturn sold a lot of PLAYSTATION Consoles!

Edited March 29, 2009 by oky2000

[Morpheus23]

Some will not like my comments so I'll preface this with...I am a Jaguar fan. I just bought the dev kit...again and hope to start coding as soon as the Alpine replacement gets here.

 

That said, I don't think any game really showed what the Jag is capable of. Some games really looked good and we all know which ones. But back when the Jag was released, I was commuting from Pennsylvania to Connecticut and often stayed in hotels. I saw the Jag was released in New York and bought one with Cybermorph and Trevor Mcfur. It was fun for a while but after a couple of months with no new games I saw an ad for the Playstation in a Japanese import store. I bought the Japanese version 6 months before it's release in the US. I bought Battle Arena Toshinden and one other. I put the Jag in a box for months. It wasn't until games like Tempest 2k and AvP came out that I became interested in the Jag again.

 

To me, most of the games didn't look any better than 32 bit or some 16 bit games. And I know why because I was registered developer with Atari and Commodore at the time. There were a lot of issues with Atari back then and the Jag could have been (should have been) better. Poorly marketed, 3rd party support etc, blah blah...we all know the story.

 

I think the homebrew community knows more about the Jag than most developers did. Jeff Minter is my coding idol and I've watched his work for years and I consider him one of the finest programmers....period. The Jag VLM is my favorite incarnation.

 

I'm hoping some homebrew efforts like those here will bring some really good games to the small but loyal Jag community. There are many talented coders on this forum as well as others. I hope I can turn out something worthwhile on the Jag and the Falcon. I mean, look at the Falcon. Some of the best stuff I've seen came out years after Atari was gone.

[kevincal]

What company were you a registered developer with back then? Also, what kind of game do you plan on making for the Jag?

[Gorf]

Ahh I mean better as in frame rate/speed. Yes the polygons and colour depth are not the same but playability is what matters for sales of the console really. The 32X version which is a fairer comparison is also faster so miles better to play regardless of how sophisticated the polygons are.

 

Club drive is another one, that's not slow though but looks quite rubbish to play on the videos and the graphics look like Hard Drivin on a 16bit machine.

 

I posted about WTR in another thread about AVGN Jaguar review, it does look really good actually, you can forgive the frame rate because it is quite nicely detailed and still looks fast enough to play well

 

Like I say in that AVGN thread it is more the bad coding and not the machine. I found an excellent looking Descent clone on Youtube just now

 

I guess what I am trying to say is given the sprite scaling quality of Super Burnout I think Atari would have been better to personally fund development of something like Power Drift which Activision had bought the right to already and done that. Power Drift 99% arcade perfect would have sold a lot more Jags than Chequered Flag or Club Drive to be honest. Ditto with Afterburner and well anything using that kind of technology.

 

It's best to show your strengths to customers than weaknesses, and around that time a pixel perfect copy of Galaxy Force II would have been better than Cybermorph too really. You have to get to a certain level of 3D sophistication for people to go wow...and sadly that level was Playstation 1 and Ridge Racer (which its self is quite flawed compared to the colour and polygon resolution of the arcade). They just were trying too hard for something that wasn't going to be, arcade games need to be fast and Daytona on the Saturn sold a lot of PLAYSTATION Consoles!

 

 

CF suffers from control issues , not frame rates. The frame rate is actually not bad at all.

You just can't control the car.

 

Club Drive.......much better engine as far as frame rate goes but one registers bit change

in the blitter and that would have given you cost free G-shaded polies instead of those

boring flat ones.

 

These are exceptional examples.

BattleSphere is the best example of what the Jag can do.

Phase Zero s just an amazing voxel engine and very fast.

 

These are really good examples.

IS 1&2 SkyHammer, and BattleMorph, HSCD.

 

Examples of those with great potential with a little work....

I-War, Air Cars, Checkered Flag.

[Stan]

Hover Strike CD

 

Holy sheisse, dude. Here am I loving Hover Strike and I didn't even know there was a damn sequel! Talk about a void that needs some filling!

[Atariman]

Hover Strike CD

 

Holy sheisse, dude. Here am I loving Hover Strike and I didn't even know there was a damn sequel! Talk about a void that needs some filling!

 

I was under the impression that the cart and CD were pretty close to the same, save maybe some graphical enhancements and some better audio. Of course, I don't have the cart version, so I can't verify this. (I just thought I remembered hearing that it had the same storyline)

[nonner242]

But the Megadrive version of Virtua Racing is miles better than any polygon racing game on the Jag and all it is is a cheap DSP on a cart helping the 68k in the console really for $10. Apart from that though probably not much else.

 

 

Um not really.

Miles better means it would have miles more color than a Jag game. It dont.

IT also means miles more polygons......it dont.

 

Since there is only ONE poly racer on the Jag, this statement is rather ridiculous.

Also you never saw WTR. Textured poly racer. Much better but still not the best

Jag can do, but certainly would choke the Genny. Checkered Flag has only one

problem. The controls. Other than that it's would have been a great game....

if you like racers that is.

 

Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

 

In it's sleep.

[nonner242]

Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

 

In it's sleep.

 

I originally wrote a abunch of stuff here but my Internet went kooky and its lost....

Suck Ass.

 

SO...in short now.

 

In its sleep?

I cannot believe that.

Dont get me wrong, I love my Jag as much as buddies does but I cannot see the jag running:

Blazing Star, Mark of the Wolves, SVC Chaos....or even Metal Slug 3 running 100% esp on a jag cart.

Even CD wouldnt help it.....LOADING.....LOADING every min or round.

Native is sweet, but by no means close to say Pulstar. I beleive that Native couldnt be done due to memory issues...dont remember..been to long and I dont want to retype all that I just lost again. And I way to tired. If it is possible to do somebuddy team up with me so I can animate a Metal Slugish or a Raiden II type game for the Jag right now!....Im tired sorry the rest is missing,,,but I can say it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer and indepth than this.

I guess I wont believe it till I can see some real action of it.....And believe me I wanna see it...

Oh a dream come true that would be....

I would finally have another reason to use my pro-controller

[ovalbugmann]

Nonner, you knoweth not. Of course the Jag can do 2D as good as neo-geo. Gorf is telling the truth: the Jag, when programmed right can rip it up.

[viMaster]

Hover Strike CD

 

Holy sheisse, dude. Here am I loving Hover Strike and I didn't even know there was a damn sequel! Talk about a void that needs some filling!

 

I was under the impression that the cart and CD were pretty close to the same, save maybe some graphical enhancements and some better audio. Of course, I don't have the cart version, so I can't verify this. (I just thought I remembered hearing that it had the same storyline)

The CD has 1 or more additional levels. I just can't remember if it's only 1 or more.

[nonner242]

Nonner, you knoweth not. Of course the Jag can do 2D as good as neo-geo. Gorf is telling the truth: the Jag, when programmed right can rip it up.

 

I dunno. AS good...is not as good as "In its sleep" to me sounds like it can blow the doors off the system. I can see it having more colors, yes..better resolution yes...on the 2D sprites handling maybe... maybe equal, but more sprites ehh......and more multiple large sprites like over 380 sprites..with no slow down? Plus I dont think it would ever be able to fit a game like Metal Slug 3 on a Jag cart I think it holds 6meg....(more compressed but what that is for sure? but I know my largest NEO game is 798Megs so it should almost fit on a CD) , or CD and run anywhere as good on the Neo Geo Cart. Loading....loading...Now one thing I find odd Neo Geo can play video too...fullscreen 304x224 and without knocking down from its native resolution. And it runs pretty smooth too like 20FPS. I would like to know what the Jag cart/or CD can do, I have seen video on my Jag but has anyone got better FMV than VLM player and what is the rez/FPS on it, I recall something like 320x160 20-24FPS and 160x120 50FPS which I dont think I ever saw..maybe I missed it. Just curious. I hate thinking ppl thinking Im having bad thoughts about the Jag, Im not its just never been produced and I love to see it on my Jag. So dont attack me for asking cuz I know ppl get all up in arms about this stuff. I think it all comes down to the way each system handles it memory....but still would love to see a MS3 running at 100% on a Jag. Im too damn tired too think straight anymore ...I'll leave it as is cuz Imloopy!

[ovalbugmann]

You have used a Jaguar CD system so you should know it has NO loading times whatsoever, just the delay initially for encryption reading but because of the large 64-bit bus in the Jaguar there is no loading times, maybe a few seconds if that - the worst JagCD game is Primal Rage it has maybe 10-15 second delays. Loading....loading......You must be thinking of the PS1.

 

I make Cinepak videos for the Jaguar all the time, and a Jaguar CD can hold 790MB of data on a single 700MB CD-R because of the JagCD's Propietory compression algorythm. The machine can support 320x240 FMV at 24 frames per second and @ 352.8kbps data rates. It's a 2x drive and ususally 1x of speed can deliver 150kbps of data but the JagCD exceeds this by at least 50kbps. Millions of colors, 16bit stereo sound, so you see the Jaguar is more advanced than the Neo-Geo CD. If you know what you are doing you can make high resolution videos using what the Jag has (352.8kbps) by using a modern day compressor to get good detail into the picture. I use the 3IVX Mpeg-4 compression system before I convert movies to Cinepak. Of course I need to start with a high quality source like a DVD. My conversion of "Resident Evil: Apocolypse" & "Cloverfield" to the JaguarCD Player turned out great! I was surprised to get such detail in the picture. Both were from DVD to>JagCD.

 

Go over to the JaguarSector.com right now and download one of my Cinepaks there in the downloads/media section and you'll see what I mean. I think the best one is the Secret Atari Jaguar Press Conference -it has the most detail, I think. You'll have to become a VIP member for $20.00(1year) or there's the lifetime Jagfreak membership which is what I belong to! to get that particular 2-disc set though. Otherwise just download some of the other cinepaks I made there - there all 320x240, 24fps, close to the max bitrate, millions of colors, high quality cinepaks-FMV.

 

I can say, and for anyone to compare, that what I have done on the Jag looks as good or better than: JagAds, Jagads 2.0, E-Jagfest 2K1 & Jagfest '99 and Atari's Big Disk, etc. - better than all those Cinepak Disks. I'm making a movie trailers disc from DIVX high-res movies now, and am capturing much of the DIVX detail in the Jag disc.

 

So basically I'm using modern day DV compressors to squeeze much detail as possible into small video files before I convert them to the Jaguar CD Player. I need to do this because of the Jaguar's limited bandwidth(352.8kbps) available due to it only having a 2x speed drive.

 

The Jaguar CD Player RAWKS!

Edited March 30, 2009 by ovalbugmann

[Morpheus23]

What company were you a registered developer with back then? Also, what kind of game do you plan on making for the Jag?

 

I was developing a custom database program on the ST for a private company. We probably had some of the first ST's and those huge 10 Mb hard drives. I learned to program in C and GEM. I still have my Mark Williams C for the ST. Later on, I dabbled in assembler.

 

So, with the Jag, my goal is to dive into assembler more and write something that graphically stands out. I've got a few ideas but We'll see how it goes. Gotta get the dev kit working first.

[Atari_Owl]

Nonner, you knoweth not. Of course the Jag can do 2D as good as neo-geo. Gorf is telling the truth: the Jag, when programmed right can rip it up.

 

I dunno. AS good...is not as good as "In its sleep" to me sounds like it can blow the doors off the system. I can see it having more colors, yes..better resolution yes...on the 2D sprites handling maybe... maybe equal, but more sprites ehh......and more multiple large sprites like over 380 sprites..with no slow down? Plus I dont think it would ever be able to fit a game like Metal Slug 3 on a Jag cart I think it holds 6meg....(more compressed but what that is for sure? but I know my largest NEO game is 798Megs so it should almost fit on a CD) , or CD and run anywhere as good on the Neo Geo Cart. Loading....loading...Now one thing I find odd Neo Geo can play video too...fullscreen 304x224 and without knocking down from its native resolution. And it runs pretty smooth too like 20FPS. I would like to know what the Jag cart/or CD can do, I have seen video on my Jag but has anyone got better FMV than VLM player and what is the rez/FPS on it, I recall something like 320x160 20-24FPS and 160x120 50FPS which I dont think I ever saw..maybe I missed it. Just curious. I hate thinking ppl thinking Im having bad thoughts about the Jag, Im not its just never been produced and I love to see it on my Jag. So dont attack me for asking cuz I know ppl get all up in arms about this stuff. I think it all comes down to the way each system handles it memory....but still would love to see a MS3 running at 100% on a Jag. Im too damn tired too think straight anymore ...I'll leave it as is cuz Imloopy!

 

Jag could do it EASILY, 380 large sprites, pah that's nothing

 

6MB limit on the cart? Ever heard of Bank switching? Expensive for sure, but then so were the NG games. Then there's no loading delays either.

 

FMV? If you can simply copy data down from the cart instead of off the CD then FMV can be significantly better than you quote.

[minuS]

my largest NEO game is 798Megs so it should almost fit on a CD

That's 798Mb, not MB. 1B(yte)=8b(its), so 798Mb=100MB. A standard CD can hold a little over 700MB, or 5600Mb.

[nonner242]

You have used a Jaguar CD system so you should know it has NO loading times whatsoever, just the delay initially for encryption reading but because of the large 64-bit bus in the Jaguar there is no loading times, maybe a few seconds if that - the worst JagCD game is Primal Rage it has maybe 10-15 second delays. Loading....loading......You must be thinking of the PS1.

 

IThe Jaguar CD Player RAWKS!

 

Oval what you have done with video sound kick ass...I cant wait to see it. I have always wanted to mess around more with my Jag movies too.

But there is still no game on Jaguar CD or Cart that has that has the amount of detail like in a Metal Slug 3,Blazing Star,Mark of Wolves,SVC Chaos... If there was one the loading times would be much worse than Primal Rage... Put it this way, Any 2-D game I have seen on Jaguar could have been put on a Neo Geo and looked pretty much if not the same. But if you take any of the above mentioned games I do not see it working on a Jag. Without breaking the levels up. They are two totally different machines I know...I know the Neo cant do 3-D. But it is a 2-D powerhouse. But my thing is still a Jag cart game I dont believe would ever be able to pull these games off 100%. I still love to see it done but the jag laying waste to the Neo Geo on 2-D is too far off to me, Plus the Neo has the advantage of being older than the Jag by about 5 years....show some respect to yer elders. I do think that the Neo was very well built system for the life it had. I can hold its own no question about it. If you wanna compaire the Jag to something a few years down the road from it like what is going on here with the Neo. Id say Jag vs Dreamcast...who wins? 3-D wise...2-D ...wise? My bet Dreamcast. But wait here is another entry the Neo can still pull off most if not all the same 2-D that the Dreamcast did...The Dreamcast had awesome ports of the Neo games too boot. I still want to know why Native never was finished for Jaguar...looked soooooooooo damn promissing. Long live 2-D. As I said before I love my Jag, but give credit were credit is due too. I wish my Jag can do it all. I would never have bought another system then.

Edited March 30, 2009 by nonner242

[Gorf]

Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

 

In it's sleep.

 

I originally wrote a abunch of stuff here but my Internet went kooky and its lost....

Suck Ass.

 

SO...in short now.

 

In its sleep?

I cannot believe that.

Dont get me wrong, I love my Jag as much as buddies does but I cannot see the jag running:

Blazing Star, Mark of the Wolves, SVC Chaos....or even Metal Slug 3 running 100% esp on a jag cart.

Even CD wouldnt help it.....LOADING.....LOADING every min or round.

Native is sweet, but by no means close to say Pulstar. I beleive that Native couldnt be done due to memory issues...dont remember..been to long and I dont want to retype all that I just lost again. And I way to tired. If it is possible to do somebuddy team up with me so I can animate a Metal Slugish or a Raiden II type game for the Jag right now!....Im tired sorry the rest is missing,,,but I can say it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer and indepth than this.

I guess I wont believe it till I can see some real action of it.....And believe me I wanna see it...

Oh a dream come true that would be....

I would finally have another reason to use my pro-controller

 

 

Trust me, you have'nt a clue. The Jaguar will piss on the Neo Geo , and yes in its sleep.

 

The Jag will out color, out sprite, out image the Neo geo in every way JUST using the

68k and OPL and Blitter.

 

Neo

4096 colors on screen max

96 sprites

No back buffer

Dedicated sound channel based sound

12 mhz max

512k ram

Z80 4mhz

 

Jag

16.7 million at the same time.

Sprites limited ONLY by memory

Unlimted back buffers.

 

DSP(unlimited sound capability)

 

27 mhz max

with 3 processors running in parellel

 

2 megabytes RAM

 

GPU/ DSP 27 mhz

 

 

Trust me, the Neo Geo would be badly hurt.

Neo Geo will never do Rayman with all those colors.

It has NO 3D capability and no blitter.

 

It does not stand a chance.

 

Now you can argue game quality but given the chance, the JAg will bitch slap the Neo Geo IN IT'S SLEEP.

[Gorf]

Nonner, you knoweth not. Of course the Jag can do 2D as good as neo-geo. Gorf is telling the truth: the Jag, when programmed right can rip it up.

 

I dunno. AS good...is not as good as "In its sleep" to me sounds like it can blow the doors off the system. I can see it having more colors, yes..better resolution yes...on the 2D sprites handling maybe... maybe equal, but more sprites ehh......and more multiple large sprites like over 380 sprites..with no slow down? Plus I dont think it would ever be able to fit a game like Metal Slug 3 on a Jag cart I think it holds 6meg....(more compressed but what that is for sure? but I know my largest NEO game is 798Megs so it should almost fit on a CD) , or CD and run anywhere as good on the Neo Geo Cart. Loading....loading...Now one thing I find odd Neo Geo can play video too...fullscreen 304x224 and without knocking down from its native resolution. And it runs pretty smooth too like 20FPS. I would like to know what the Jag cart/or CD can do, I have seen video on my Jag but has anyone got better FMV than VLM player and what is the rez/FPS on it, I recall something like 320x160 20-24FPS and 160x120 50FPS which I dont think I ever saw..maybe I missed it. Just curious. I hate thinking ppl thinking Im having bad thoughts about the Jag, Im not its just never been produced and I love to see it on my Jag. So dont attack me for asking cuz I know ppl get all up in arms about this stuff. I think it all comes down to the way each system handles it memory....but still would love to see a MS3 running at 100% on a Jag. Im too damn tired too think straight anymore ...I'll leave it as is cuz Imloopy!

 

 

stop drinking the Neo kool aid.

 

716 mega BITS not bytes. JAg can do that on cart and MUCH more with bank switch

with is exactly how the NG does that large a game.

 

The Jaguar has unlimited sprites. The memory is the only thing limiting them.

Neo Geo was a great system for the day but it cant shine the JAg's shoes.

[nonner242]

Jag could have done 2D games in Neo Geo quality.

 

In it's sleep.

 

I originally wrote a abunch of stuff here but my Internet went kooky and its lost....

Suck Ass.

 

SO...in short now.

 

In its sleep?

I cannot believe that.

Dont get me wrong, I love my Jag as much as buddies does but I cannot see the jag running:

Blazing Star, Mark of the Wolves, SVC Chaos....or even Metal Slug 3 running 100% esp on a jag cart.

Even CD wouldnt help it.....LOADING.....LOADING every min or round.

Native is sweet, but by no means close to say Pulstar. I beleive that Native couldnt be done due to memory issues...dont remember..been to long and I dont want to retype all that I just lost again. And I way to tired. If it is possible to do somebuddy team up with me so I can animate a Metal Slugish or a Raiden II type game for the Jag right now!....Im tired sorry the rest is missing,,,but I can say it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer and indepth than this.

I guess I wont believe it till I can see some real action of it.....And believe me I wanna see it...

Oh a dream come true that would be....

I would finally have another reason to use my pro-controller

 

 

Trust me, you have'nt a clue. The Jaguar will piss on the Neo Geo , and yes in its sleep.

 

The Jag will out color, out sprite, out image the Neo geo in every way JUST using the

68k and OPL and Blitter.

 

Neo

4096 colors on screen max

96 sprites

No back buffer

Dedicated sound channel based sound

12 mhz max

512k ram

Z80 4mhz

 

Jag

16.7 million at the same time.

Sprites limited ONLY by memory

Unlimted back buffers.

 

DSP(unlimited sound capability)

 

27 mhz max

with 3 processors running in parellel

 

2 megabytes RAM

 

GPU/ DSP 27 mhz

 

 

Trust me, the Neo Geo would be badly hurt.

Neo Geo will never do Rayman with all those colors.

It has NO 3D capability and no blitter.

 

It does not stand a chance.

 

Now you can argue game quality but given the chance, the JAg will bitch slap the Neo Geo IN IT'S SLEEP.

 

Yeah I already said I know it hasn't done 3-D, dont know if anyone really tried much with it. But Im sure it would suck as bad as SNES DOOM.

 

Neo Geo

Maximum Sprites On-Screen: 380

Maximum Sprites per scanline: 96

 

I think The Neo could do Rayman in its sleep! Nothing says it cannot. May be with a slight color difference if noticable at all.

I still have never seen a game that uses 16mill colors look much different than a game that uses 4096...Its just about as impressive sounding as 64bit-to Some 32...I think most 32 kick the N64 & Jags butt. I still do not see 1 not 1 2D game from the Jag that the NEO couldnt port and look if not identical...near like 98% as good. What games on Jag atually display 16mill? Trever McNuggets...Rayman...AVP...Tempest...Im sure I can take a screen shot of any of those and knock it down to 256maybe but 512 colors without any difference. So 4096 is nothing bad at all. I can see that 16mill would make a difference in a HI-RES but standard TV REZ nah...not much worth the #'s So back to the Sprite abilities...and the actual running of a Neo Geo game on a Jag ay 100%...Lets Try SVC Chaos or Metal Slug 3 on a Jag Cart. Also tell me what stopped Native for Jag....wasnt it Memory? ...I WANNA KNOW! I need too!

Its a shame that nobody took advantage of this on Jag.....then or now....Im up for it...get me a team...I wanna animate the shit out of the Jag and make a freaking game to put the Neo Geo to shame....Also I would like to know how big of a sprite could I make on the Jaguar, for like a end boss, or even a main character without the jaggy scaling effect..I want it to look sweet..I wanna really do this...

 

Another thing Sega Saturn:

Processors

Two Hitachi SuperH-2 7604 32-bit RISC processors at 28.63 MHz (50 MIPS)—each has 4 kB on-chip cache, of which 2 kB can alternatively be used as directly addressable Scratchpad RAM

SH-1 32-bit RISC processor (controlling the CD-ROM)

Custom VDP 1 32-bit video display processor (running at 7.1590 MHz on NTSC Systems, 6.7116 MHz for PAL Systems)

Custom VDP 2 32-bit video display processor (running at 7.1590 MHz on NTSC Systems, 6.7116 MHz for PAL Systems)

Custom System Control Unit (SCU) with DSP for geometry processing and DMA controller (running at 14.3 MHz)

Motorola 68EC000 sound controller (running at 11.3 MHz / 1.5 MIPS)

Yamaha FH1 DSP sound processor, "Saturn Custom Sound Processor" (SCSP), running at 22.6 MHz

Hitachi 4-bit MCU, "System Manager & Peripheral Control" (SMPC)

 

Memory

1 MB SDRAM

1 MB DRAM, combined with SDRAM to make the main 2 MB memory area

1.5 MB VRAM

4 KB VDP2 on-chip color RAM

512 KB audio RAM

64 KB CD-ROM cache (512 kbit)

32 KB nonvolatile RAM (battery backup)

512 KB BIOS ROM

 

Audio

Saturn Custom Sound Processor

 

Even with all its nice specs needed a 1-4Meg Ram cart to run some Neo Games well, not perfect....some animation frames still removed, And some larger sprites were cut down abit.

[A Sprite]

Rayman with 4096 colors thanks to the GBA.

 

 

vs. Jag.

 

 

There's a huge difference in the amount of dithering used, due to the 16 color limitations of the Advance sprites...a weakness shared by the Neo Geo hardware.

Edited March 31, 2009 by A Sprite