How to remove yellowing from an old Atari case

[flashjazzcat]

You leave the keyboard together???? Good grief, I've been prying he keycaps off one-by-one, painting them one-by one, washing them one-by-one, letting them dry, and putting them back on one-by one!!! All this time!!! And when working on an ST (so many keys) it's an all-day project!!!!

 

PLEASE detail-explain how you do this. You take the 1000 little tiny screws off the backplate and remove the mylar (etc) on the XE? You just get the whole thing wet rinsing the peroxide off? I would have thought water would seep in around the backplate (or whatever else) and never leave.

 

I will be much more eager to try this again, if I can do it like you do it. Please, DO TELL!!!!

 

To Hell with taking all the keys off individually. I did that a couple of times, but life's too short to make a habit of it. But - be clear - I'd NEVER wet the keyboard without removing the screws, backplate, mylar, and (if applicable) rubber cups. That would seem to me to be asking for trouyble. As for the sprung XE Mitsumi keyboards: well, getting them wet never seemed to harm the springs as long as everything's bone dry eventually.

 

XL keyboards, I'll mention, usually don't need peroxide treatment but frequently need a wash. Those with mylars and dozens of springs: obviously they come off first. The AWC keyboards and others: they just get a scrub as-as, PCB and all. They frequently have ingrained muck and hairs between the key switches when I get hold of them, and running warm water and a toothbrush usually sorts them out.

 

Obviously good drying practice (airing cupboard, windowsill) is key to all this stuff working out for the best.

[atari8warez]

Got a scabby looking but intact 800xl cheap and done the peroxide job - came out better than expected.

 

Before and after

 

Richard

 

Richard, looks like you did a good job on the table too

 

Here's my old-new 800, it's nicely getting there using the window sill method with 6% peroxide and cling wrap. Left the cartridge door undone for comparison. Next comes the bottom and the cartridge door.

[w1k]

nice czech video:

[atari8warez]

That's one wideee! 800XE

[TheNameOfTheGame]

Nice video. Keep hope alive! Summer is coming here and have all the ingredients waiting. These videos always give me inspiration.

[adolobe]

Nice video. Keep hope alive! Summer is coming here and have all the ingredients waiting. These videos always give me inspiration.

 

For under $30 you can build a sun box. NC weather is hit or miss if your in the coastal county's like me. Atari 600xl top case only in under 2 hours in my sunbox.

[TheNameOfTheGame]

For under $30 you can build a sun box. NC weather is hit or miss if your in the coastal county's like me. Atari 600xl top case only in under 2 hours in my sunbox.

 

Oh I would definetely be interested to hear more about this Do you have a parts list by any chance?

[Darkhog]

Just tip for collectors: Removing yellowing actually decrease collector value of your Atari/Nes/Amiga/C64.

 

Of course if you are treating your machine as machine to play games/use old software (quite understandable as many soft for old machines doesn't work with emulation and in case of Amiga setting up emulation itself is a big hurdle) and not collector item, it isn't problem.

[flashjazzcat]

I've yet to see evidence that dirty / yellowed hardware fetches a higher price than clean / NOS / NIB stuff, but maybe computers haven't yet passed into the collectability phase whereby a lack of patina makes the provenance of the "piece" questionable!

[akator]

Just tip for collectors: Removing yellowing actually decrease collector value of your Atari/Nes/Amiga/C64.

 

I am aware or how handmade objects (especially pre-20th century) are more valuable in original condition, but that's because the marks from hand tools and hand manufacture that identify these things are removed and destroyed by restoration. Sometimes those marks are the only thing identifying an object as being made by a certain craftsman. Paint and finish is often of massive importance as well, providing a chemical signature than cannot be recreated.

 

I haven't seen any common consumer mass manufactured 20th century electronic objects considered more valuable in worn condition, not unless they belonged to someone famous. Both casual buyers and collectors generally place higher value on pristine items. Yellowed electronics do not fetch as high a price as non-yellowed electronics. Rusty televisions and radios do not fetch as high a price as non-rusty. Arcade games with cigarette burns do not fetch as high a price as those without. There are, of course, exceptions... however I cannot think of one that applies to consumer electronics, computers, or consoles.

[adolobe]

Oh I would definetely be interested to hear more about this Do you have a parts list by any chance?

 

Yea its pretty easy and cheap set up with no heat.

 

My parts list

Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 Compact Fluorescent Lamp - $16 right now at Petsmart on sell till Wednesday

Woods Reflector Clamp Lamp -$6 Lowes in the extension cord department. I took the clamp off and just feed the cord through the top, I got the one with the 6 inch reflective bowl

Rubbermaid bin I already had but they sell pretty cheap at Walmart or Target.

 

My formula

40% Volume Developer from local beauty store $2.89

Glycerin $3 walmart

Oxybooster $1 from Doller General for a 6 pack pods. I just broke one open and I only use about 1/4 teaspoon

 

I lined the walls and inside of the bin lid with Aluminum foil

 

My total cost was under $30 and my results have been awesome. I just paint the stuff on my parts every hour to keep them evenly coated and cover with saran wrap.

 

I've had better results in my sunbox then I have outdoors in the actual sun and the developer time is drastically shorter. Plus the Reptisun gives off very little heat, my parts feel room temperature when I take them out of the box. In this setup the bulb is about 10-12 inches above the parts being treated.

Edited April 14, 2013 by adolobe

[+Guitarman]

Can you snap a pic of the inside of the basket??

[adolobe]

Can you snap a pic of the inside of the basket??

 

Sure, this is the inside of the box

[Magic Knight]

@adolobe - how much watts is the bulb rated at?

[adolobe]

@adolobe - how much watts is the bulb rated at?

 

I made a mistake in the bulb name I actually used a Exo Terra Repti Glow 10.0 its a 26w compact florecent

 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752556&lmdn=Product+Type&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS%2FNo

 

Here is the link to the exact bulb I used for all my retr0bright's. So far I've done 4 complete systems in my sun box ( 600XL, SNES, 1040STF, and Amdex Color Monitor) All look awesome.

 

 

[TheNameOfTheGame]

@adolobe thanks for the parts list.

 

Going out today to get the bulb and bin. Have all the other ingredients already and my 1040e is about as yellow as it can get

[TheNameOfTheGame]

Yea its pretty easy and cheap set up with no heat.

 

My parts list

Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 Compact Fluorescent Lamp - $16 right now at Petsmart on sell till Wednesday

Woods Reflector Clamp Lamp -$6 Lowes in the extension cord department. I took the clamp off and just feed the cord through the top, I got the one with the 6 inch reflective bowl

Rubbermaid bin I already had but they sell pretty cheap at Walmart or Target.

 

My formula

40% Volume Developer from local beauty store $2.89

Glycerin $3 walmart

Oxybooster $1 from Doller General for a 6 pack pods. I just broke one open and I only use about 1/4 teaspoon

 

I lined the walls and inside of the bin lid with Aluminum foil

 

My total cost was under $30 and my results have been awesome. I just paint the stuff on my parts every hour to keep them evenly coated and cover with saran wrap.

 

I've had better results in my sunbox then I have outdoors in the actual sun and the developer time is drastically shorter. Plus the Reptisun gives off very little heat, my parts feel room temperature when I take them out of the box. In this setup the bulb is about 10-12 inches above the parts being treated.

 

So every hour you remove the last layer and put new retrobrite on or do you just paint over the previous layer (did it dry up)? Also, you cover the parts with saran wrap? Is that to stop the retrobrite from drying out?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but it looks like you are the man with a great indoor process so I wanted to replicate your technique as close as possible..

 

One last question: What are you using to paint the stuff on? Paintbrush maybe?

[adolobe]

So every hour you remove the last layer and put new retrobrite on or do you just paint over the previous layer (did it dry up)? Also, you cover the parts with saran wrap? Is that to stop the retrobrite from drying out?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but it looks like you are the man with a great indoor process so I wanted to replicate your technique as close as possible..

 

One last question: What are you using to paint the stuff on? Paintbrush maybe?

 

Hey make sure you get the Exo Terra Repti Glow 10.0 its a 26w compact florecent. Thats the bulb I used not the Reptisun. I bouth both but didnt use the Reptisun since it gave off heat.

 

I used a 1 inch paint brush to thinly layer the Retr0brite on the case then covered with saran wrap and press down like you would when wrapping food. Every hour I would pull the saran wrap back and then add another thin layer of Retr0brite. I just brushed on top of the Retr0brite that was already there. I only did this because you will notice that after about 30 mins or so the Retr0brite will foam up under the saran wrap

 

Im actually getting ready to so a MegaSTE this weekend as well

[TheNameOfTheGame]

Ok, cool. I got all the parts now so I am getting ready to set up the light box. Thanks for all your helpful advice. Good luck with your MegaSTE!

 

Well, once last question . How did you affix the aluminum foil to the inside of the storage bin? Did you glue it or use double-sided tape?

 

P.S. Yes, I did get the Exo Terra Repti Glow 10.0 26w. They had them in-stock at our local Petsmart.

Edited April 27, 2013 by TheNameOfTheGame

[adolobe]

Ok, cool. I got all the parts now so I am getting ready to set up the light box. Thanks for all your helpful advice. Good luck with your MegaSTE!

 

Well, once last question . How did you affix the aluminum foil to the inside of the storage bin? Did you glue it or use double-sided tape?

 

P.S. Yes, I did get the Exo Terra Repti Glow 10.0 26w. They had them in-stock at our local Petsmart.

 

I just used regular tape left over from Christmas. I only taped the foil on the inside walls of the the box and then I laid a large piece down on the lid to lay my case parts on when using the box.

[Paul Westphal]

I used a solution of peroxide and baking soda and made some paste out of it and scrubbed the plastic with a rough sponge. Worked great.

[flashjazzcat]

Note of caution regarding anti-UV spray...

 

A year or so back I Retr0Brited my highly modified 1200XL for the second or third time and - since it was quite prone to yellowing - decided to coat it with anti-UV spray (Lyson PrintGuard, as it happens). Well, a year later and the damned case was yellowing again, but this time with no way available to get at the plastic. On Saturday morning the sun was out, so I put peroxide on a small test-area on the back of the case to see if it would eat through the PrintGuard. It did, so I went ahead and did the whole case. In an hour (or less), the original ice-cream white colour was restored, but I was horrified to discover a streaky texture had been left behind, where some areas of anti-UV coating had clung on for grim death (and the coating tended to have a more glossy sheen than the naked plastic). Another Retr0Brite treatment didn't help, so I went away to think about it for a while. When I came back, I tried WD-40, which shifted some of the more stubborn areas, but it took a careful, gentle working of the wet case with a toothbrush and CIF cleaner to get rid of the streaks and restore a uniform finish. The original patternation on the plastic was undamaged, but it looked a little more matte than I remembered. Funnily enough, though, all it took to restore the original satin sheen was a quick polish with some kitchen towel.

 

The 1200XL now looks about as good as it ever did:

 

 

 

However, it'll be yellow again in a year or two (despite living under a dust-cover), so one is left with a stark choice: put up with the yellowing, or commit to repeated Retr0Briting every couple of years. My confidence in anti-UV spray for this particular machine has been lost, although it proved very effective with other XLs. A professional spray-painting job might be a permanent solution, but it's not an attractive prospect. Funnily enough, I have a 600XL and 800XL which just don't seem to yellow no matter what. Obviously Atari used many different kinds of plastic.

 

Anyway - I'm leaving well alone for now, my heart rate having returned to normal.

Edited August 4, 2013 by flashjazzcat

[akator]

Note of caution regarding anti-UV spray...

 

Bummer. I haven't tried any permanent coatings for fear of what you have experienced and described.

 

At least you managed to fix it, though...

 

put up with the yellowing, or commit to repeated Retr0Briting every couple of years

 

None of my retrobrited machines stayed that way. Some reverted in only 6 months, others have taken a few years. A non-permanent UV protector like Armor All helps slow the process but not enough.

 

I've given up on it because there is no way in hell that I have the desire or patience to disassemble, retrobrite, and reassemble hardware more than once a decade

[Tezz]

I've been on the fence with whether or not to retrobright with the risk of overdoing it and with possible blooming etc but in light of your experiences here recently with the yellowing reoccurring despite the UV protector I guess the chemical change to the plastic is only perhaps a temporary effect? I have previously painted my XE and an ST with plastic paint which I was happy with the results of (although not a perfect colour match). Last year after the Play Expo event I dug my second Amiga A1200 out of storage which hasn't been in use since the late 90's, my main Amiga at the time was a towered 060 so we had this other standard A1200 with a 030 card as a second machine in our music studio. It had been carefully boxed and stored out of the light of day for 15 years but of course that chemical reaction from its time in use has now yellowed the case and keyboard a lot to the side that faced the window. I've attached a photo although the light is not great today with very heavy cloud and rain. It's more noticeable from the back photo where you can see half of the case has yellowed.

 

I looked again after the event at the newer plastic dye sprays online which are supposed to be easy to use and do not require priming beforehand. The finish bonds to the plastic so it doesn't look painted (or so I've read). The talk in Amiga land was that Krylon Fusion Dover White was a very good match for the A1200 so I'm going to finally get around to trying this out and get some ordered in the next few days. As it's a US product it's far cheaper to buy there, I've seen it for as little as $4.25 a can online where it's £16 + shipping here. Kind of annoying that it's so marked up here but shipping costs from the US to Europe now seems to be incredibly expensive so there's little choice.

 

I'll post some before and after photos with an update of the experiences with this plastic dye soon. I'm wondering whether there will be a good match for the XL colours in the range too. I'll just be replacing the A1200 keyboard with a new one from Amigakit as they're not expensive and they will be attending the Play Expo again this year so I can just pick one up whilst there.

[flashjazzcat]

Interesting. I had a look at that Krylon Fusion Dover White but could only find mention of it with a gloss finish, whereas satin would be the ticket, I imagine. I once ordered a tin of Krylon Fusion River Rock and not only did it turn out to be high gloss, it was also nowhere near the shade I'd imagined it to be. Plastikote paint is good, though, and is available in a wide range of colours. "Ice Cream" (Satin) is what I used to paint a 1084S, and I was very happy with the result. Moreover, the paint finish (which I understand to be a plastic layer which bonds to the original surface beneath) has proved to extremely durable (after all, heavy monitors tend to get swivelled and banged around a bit). This bodes well for an XL paint job, although I think lots of practice-runs on discarded cases would be required before attempting a 1200XL. The colour match would be pretty spot-on, though. That said, I'm still reluctant to consider the paint-job, since painted things always "look" painted, even if you have to get pretty close up to tell. Like I say, though, I think some practice / evaluation on some old wrecks is required.

 

As for XEs: I can see the wisdom in painting those, since they're often difficult to successfully de-yellow without blooming. Plastikote, once again, do a nice XE shade in satin which I used to paint the 3.5" drive bay adapter in one of my XF551s.

 

Keyboards are always gonna be a problem (except with XLs), however. The XE keyboards yellow like Hell and there's not much you can do with them other than repeatedly peroxide them or buy new ones. Protectants are likely to chip and wear, and you can't really paint them either.

 

One approach, of course, is to Retr0Brite on a five or ten-yearly basis. At least it gives you something to look forward to.

 

EDIT: perfect long-term solution, of course, is for somebody to make an injection mould from a cast of an original case and produce new ones from non-yellowing plastic.

Edited August 5, 2013 by flashjazzcat