My Jaguar

[snakes3425]

I've had a Jaguar for a while now, and having played it, my views on the Jag have changed. Personally I don't think it deserves the title: Worst Console Ever. The Jag, much like the Lynx before it, had potental and if Atari had taken time, to prefect the Jaguar's technolgoy, and put out more games like Doom and AVP, the console could have gone the distance and had been a serious competitor on the market.

[dantheratman]

amen!

[the.golden.ax]

Who gave it the title as worst system ever? Did they play game.com and 32x?

 

AX

[minuS]

Who gave it the title as worst system ever? Did they play game.com and 32x?

Hey now, don't knock the 32X! It has just as many (if not more) good games as the Jaguar!

[kevincal]

Jag is far from worst system ever. I've never heard it mentioned as that before either..

[+Sauron]

Who gave it the title as worst system ever? Did they play game.com and 32x?

Hey now, don't knock the 32X! It has just as many (if not more) good games as the Jaguar!

 

Give me some of that stuff you're smoking...

 

The Jag isn't by far the worst system ever, nor is it the best. It's a good little system that could have been much better.

[BuddyBuddies]

IF YA ASK ME THE JAGUAR IS THE BEST! JAGUAR RULES!

[Gorf]

Give me some of that stuff you're smoking...

 

 

Really dude! Spark up!

 

The 32x may have had some good games but the Jag versions were for the most

part superior.

[the.golden.ax]

Give me some of that stuff you're smoking...

 

 

Really dude! Spark up!

 

The 32x may have had some good games but the Jag versions were for the most

part superior.

 

I'll admit I hadn't played the whole 32x library... but if people are going to say the Jag is bad... for example... after I got rid of my Jag in 1997... a friend loaned me his 32x and doom... I'm thinking wow, I get to play doom again... I couldn't even try to play it the graphics were SO bad compaired to Jag... I'm sure that there are some fun games on 32x (Virtua Racing was nice... Star Wars was nice) but Jag is "better"... so on the scale of systems that suck.... I'm just saying 32x sucks more... Now... Game.Com by Tiger... that just sucks.

 

AX

[Atari_Falcon]

Hey, the game.com isn´t that bad at all... light´s out and builtin solitaire was very funny... also I liked resident evil...

 

But anyway the Jag is the game system of my choice... it still has a place in my living room...

 

Jaguar 4 ever

[kevincal]

go to www.rfgeneration.com and search the database there. They have something like 100 systems and atleast a dozen of those only have like 10 games or less, or maybe a couple more... THOSE are the worst systems ever. Atleast the Jag/Jag CD had over 50 games in its life cycle. The Jag is firmly in the middle of all home videogame systems ever made. It's not near the worst nor the best, but it is a good system with many good games.

[minuS]

I had just assumed such discussions had been done to death around here... Anyway, 32X versus Jaguar. In terms of hardware, it would appear as though the Jaguar has more horsepower behind it, but I'm no expert and both systems seem to have pretty different architectures. I mean, the 32X has two 23MHz 32-bit Hitachi SH2 processors in addition to the Genesis' 7.6MHz 68000 and VDP processors, whereas the Jaguar has two custom 27MHz 32-bit processors (one programmable with 64-bit parts) and a 13.3MHz 68000 processor... So unless you're an electrical engineer or one of those software programmers that kskunk mentioned who likes to squeeze every last bit out of strange hardware designs, such discussion is purely academic.

 

The proof is in the games.

 

DOOM on 32X sucks, but it's still playable and I'd take it over the SNES port. Then again, I'd take the PC original over any port. Compared to the Jaguar it has music, but the low-res 2D sprites, smaller screen size, and lack of multiplayer definitely puts it below the Jaguar version. Similarly, the Jaguar version of NBA Jam TE is the better port, and Iron Soldier kills Metal Head...

 

...But then Virtua Racing Deluxe or Checkered Flag? Virtua Racing by a mile.

 

Virtua Fighter or Fight For Life? Virtua Fighter. It's the complete arcade classic with bonuses (albeit with fewer polygons).

 

Knuckles Chaotix or Rayman? Both are great titles, but Chaotix is a 32X exclusive and a far more streamlined experience. Graphics-wise, I'd call it a draw.

 

Tempo or Bubsy/Zool 2? Tempo has better quality graphics, animation, and sound.

 

Zaxxon's Motherbase 2000 or Raiden? Granted the Jaguar port of Raiden is one of the best ports of the classic shooter, but Motherbase updates and innovates with ingenious gameplay mechanics (hijacking enemy ships) and great graphics (meshing sprites and polygons).

 

Motocross Championship or Supercross 3D? Motocross is a lot of fun. My time with Supercross 3D is limited, but the reviews sure don't look promising.

 

Darxide or Battlesphere Gold? Well, I haven't played either, but they're both solid space shooters that do great things with their respective hardware and are both super rare.

 

32X also has Shadow Squadron, Star Wars Arcade, Space Harrier, After Burner, Kolibri, T-Mek, Spider-Man: Web Of Fire, Cosmic Carnage, an enhanced port of the Genesis classic World Series Baseball, and one of the best home ports of Mortal Kombat II...

 

I'd honestly be hard pressed to choose one over the other if it came down to my 32X and my Jaguar.

Edited February 23, 2009 by minuS

[Isgoed]

I've never seen a 32X in action, but you make me curious, minuS.

[BuddyBuddies]

Battlesphere stomps them all with the AWESOME-NETWORKING ability!!!! mwahahahaha

[doctorclu]

Tempo or Bubsy/Zool 2? Tempo has better quality graphics, animation, and sound.

 

Hmmm... tempted to look up this Tempo that challenges the Bubster.

 

My take on game systems... does it have at least ONE game that you keep it around for, cannot not get the same through emulation, and would hate yourself if you were to get rid that system because of that game?

Then the game system was a success.

 

To me, I have actually thought of scaling down and there have been times I have actually thought about getting rid of the Jaguar, but for me I didn't want to get rid of the adrenaline rush and fun of playing Bubsy. That to me was the game that made the system worth it.

 

Tempest 2K, Raiden, Doom, even Battesphere were other good reasons. Doom and Battlesphere are fun to play with friends.

 

But the Jaguar version of Bubsy cannot be emulated (accurately), and is on no other system. I would like to see a genesis port of it, or port the other Genesis Bubsy titles to the Jaguar... to be able to play all three Bubsy titles on one system. But for now, I have to keep around a Genesis AND a Jaguar.

Edited February 24, 2009 by doctorclu

[kevincal]

I'm a big Jaguar fan and also a pretty big fan of the 32X. The main reason Jag games look A LOT better than 32X games is this... The majority of people play their games on a normal tv using AV or S video cables. Everyone knows the Genesis AND 32X video output, even using AV cables, looks like ASS. The resolution is HORRID and you can actually see a grid pattern in the graphics. The Jag on the other hand has much better resolution, especially with S video. The Jag and 3DO most definitely have superior graphics capabilites compared to the 32X. The 32X is good at pushing around a good number of bland polygons, but really, Knuckles Chaotix only looks great because it's really colorful. Rayman looks much smoother and is a much better game. I've never played Tempo but I highly doubt it's as good as Zool 2, one of my favorite platformers.

 

The reason games like VR Deluxe and VF on the 32X turned out so good is cus world renowned AM2 did them! If the AM2 were given a Jag to work with, I can guarantee they'd cook up something better on the Jag compared to the 32X. Not to mention, the Jag kicks the 32X's ass all over the place when it comes to sound capabilities. Sure, a lot of Jag games are lacking in game music, but obviously Tempest 2000 comes to mind when you think of a Jag game with music that obliterates anything on the 32X music-wise.

[minuS]

Jag games look A LOT better than 32X games[...] Not to mention, the Jag kicks the 32X's ass all over the place when it comes to sound capabilities.

Sounds like a pretty subjective assessment there... And that's cool; to each his own. Then again, saying something looks like ass, is horrid, is bland, gets its ass kicked all over the place... Those're awfully definitive statements for a subjective assessment... I mean, let's face it dude, you sound like a blathering fanboy You can go on about resolutions all day (the only time I've ever noticed an kind of grid was when I was using s-video on a 57" HDTV, but then I noticed that over s-video on Dreamcast as well), but the fact of the matter is that the Jaguar has some really bad games despite its more powerful hardware and the 32X does some amazing things with its less powerful hardware.

 

Exhibit A: Kolibri on 32X If that's what ass looks like, then I'll have me some ass, thanks

 

Bland polygons?

 

Exhibit B: Darxide on 32X Looks like it could be a Jaguar game, no?

Exhibit C: Metal Head on 32X Not too bad either...

 

Chaotix only looks good because it's really colourful? What about the impressive raster effects? The layers of parallax? Rayman runs at a higher resolution, yeah, but my point was that both are great games. I'm giving the edge to Chaotix though, because you can get Rayman anywhere and it's generally regarded as a particularly long and overly difficult game. Chaotix, on the other hand, is a 32X exclusive with innovative and unique gameplay mechanics (and has one of my favourite video game soundtracks on any system).

 

As for Tempo versus Bubsy/Zool 2, all three are solid platformers. The Jaguar games look like they're running at a higher resolution, but are pretty basic when it comes to graphics; they have a static foreground, a static background, and then some poorly-animated sprites. Tempo has multiple layers of parallax, dynamic backgrounds, and beautifully animated sprites. I'm not saying any of the three are better than the others; just that Tempo does a whole lot more in the graphics department.

 

Exhibit D: Tempo on 32X

 

Regarding Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing Deluxe being awesome simply because AM2 worked on them, well, that's kinda my point. I'm not doing this to bash the Jaguar or say the 32X is better. I'm just saying that in terms of what software is out there, the systems are comparable. Both have some great titles, and I thought you, as a Jaguar enthusiast, would be a little more sympathetic to a gaming system that is similarly overlooked and underrated.

 

Sound capabilities: The 32X supposedly had some pretty impressive sound capabilities, but they were rarely leveraged effectively because of the programming involved (taking full advantage of the audio hardware involved employing one of the CPUs as well). As the story goes, 32X developers often opted to use the Genesis sound hardware for music and the like. There are a number of games, mostly first party (Virtua Racing Deluxe, Virtua Fighter, Knuckles Chaotix, Tempo), that have great audio though; better than the vast majority of what there is on the Jaguar.

 

Anyway, I can't stress this enough: The 32X is not better than the Jaguar, in terms of hardware or software. The 32X is, however, a system that is well worth your time, especially since they can be acquired so cheaply.

Edited February 24, 2009 by minuS

[kevincal]

All you have to do is look at some basic examples to compare the 2 systems. Doom is obviously superior on the Jag even without in-game music. The 32X couldn't dream to pull off AvP or Wolf 3d like the Jag does. Infact there's news going around the web right now about how Wolf 3d is being developed for the 32X right now! I think there's video on Youtube, and the Jag Wolf absolutely kills it. Sure, Virtua Racing runs smoother and controls a lot better than Checkered Flag, but I already explained why that is, more to do with programming than anything. Id programmed Doom for both the Jag and 32X and um, ya, I think they are some of the best programmers in the world so.. Mortal Kombat II on the 32X looks barely better than the Genesis or Super Nes versions. Ultra Vortek looks better and some would argue it's a better game. The 32X could do a decent port of Rayman, but it wouldn't turn out as good as the Jag ,Saturn or PS versions.

 

I'm not a fanboy as you say, I'm just speaking the FACT and you can't deal with that! AS I SAID, I like both the Jaguar and the 32X but the fact is, Jag 3d and 2d games just plain look better AND even though the Jag has a good chunk of shit games, it still has more good games than the 32X!!! Overall in the Jag's lifespan it had something like 55 games. The 32X in its lifespan had more like 40 games. Sure it is close, but I still say the Jag edges out the 32X in the overall scheme of things. It does have more games, and on average 3d and 2d games look better on the Jag. And the Jag controller is nowhere near as bad as most anti-Jag people make it out to be. For instance playing doom with the over-glorified sega 6 button versus playing Doom with the Jag pad, I feel hardly any difference. I control both equally well.

 

And don't go pointing me toward that 32X tech demo on Youtube.

[+FujiSkunk]

New rule. Anybody who mixes CAPITAL words in the MIDDLE of their SENTENCES loses the argument by DEFAULT.

 

Continue.

[minuS]

I'm not a fanboy as you say, I'm just speaking the FACT and you can't deal with that!

I think you may be missing my point. I'm just saying that the 32X is pretty swell, and even does some things that its contemporaries don't. I'm comparing it to the Jaguar so that people here have solid points of reference, not to bash the Jaguar. I've already pointed out a number of examples where the Jaguar trumps the 32X, and I've specifically avoided tech demos and focused on retail titles. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with all the FPS comparisons; I'm not talking about what the Jaguar has done that the 32X hasn't, but rather what the 32X has done all on its own. It seems as though you're bent on blindly defending the Jaguar, and that's not the discussion I'm trying to participate in. the.golden.ax wrote that the 32X was one of the worst systems ever, and when I disagreed, others joked that I must be on drugs... I'm just backing up my argument.

 

I didn't say you were a fanboy, just that you sounded like one because you were throwing around all these subjective judgments as though they were definitive. I've given you rock solid examples of what the 32X can do, where it falls short of its contemporaries, and where it excels. It doesn't matter which you think looks better, how many games were released, or what the general public perception is. The qualities of the games are all that matters, and even if the Jaguar has more showpieces than the 32X (which I'm not sure it does), the fact that the 32X has these good games makes it worth checking out.

 

You do raise some interesting points though, and I'd like to address them. I've already mentioned that DOOM is painful on the 32X, but also keep in mind that it was based on the Jaguar version but released first. I think it's fair to assume that the 32X port was a little rushed for the 32X's launch, especially considering some of the bugs present in it (if you start on any level other than the first and complete the game, you are left at a DOS prompt); not exactly a prime example of id software's best work. Mortal Kombat II on 32X looks far better than the Genesis version (yes, I've done side-by-side comparisons; 32X has more frames on animation, far better colours, and more detail in the backgrounds) and runs much smoother than any of the other 32-bit ports (Saturn, PSX). The only comparable home versions of MKII are on the SNES (better sound) and XBOX/PS2/GameCube (emulated arcade version).

Edited February 24, 2009 by minuS

[kevincal]

New rule. Anybody who mixes CAPITAL words in the MIDDLE of their SENTENCES loses the argument by DEFAULT.

 

Continue.

 

UH OH! WATCH OUT!!! THE GRAMMAR POLICE IS HERE!!!

 

Bad boys bad boys, watchya gonna do, watchya gonna do when they come for you...

Edited February 25, 2009 by kevincal

[kevincal]

I'm not a fanboy as you say, I'm just speaking the FACT and you can't deal with that!

I think you may be missing my point. I'm just saying that the 32X is pretty swell, and even does some things that its contemporaries don't. I'm comparing it to the Jaguar so that people here have solid points of reference, not to bash the Jaguar. I've already pointed out a number of examples where the Jaguar trumps the 32X, and I've specifically avoided tech demos and focused on retail titles. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with all the FPS comparisons; I'm not talking about what the Jaguar has done that the 32X hasn't, but rather what the 32X has done all on its own. It seems as though you're bent on blindly defending the Jaguar, and that's not the discussion I'm trying to participate in. the.golden.ax wrote that the 32X was one of the worst systems ever, and when I disagreed, others joked that I must be on drugs... I'm just backing up my argument.

 

I didn't say you were a fanboy, just that you sounded like one because you were throwing around all these subjective judgments as though they were definitive. I've given you rock solid examples of what the 32X can do, where it falls short of its contemporaries, and where it excels. It doesn't matter which you think looks better, how many games were released, or what the general public perception is. The qualities of the games are all that matters, and even if the Jaguar has more showpieces than the 32X (which I'm not sure it does), the fact that the 32X has these good games makes it worth checking out.

 

You do raise some interesting points though, and I'd like to address them. I've already mentioned that DOOM is painful on the 32X, but also keep in mind that it was based on the Jaguar version but released first. I think it's fair to assume that the 32X port was a little rushed for the 32X's launch, especially considering some of the bugs present in it (if you start on any level other than the first and complete the game, you are left at a DOS prompt); not exactly a prime example of id software's best work. Mortal Kombat II on 32X looks far better than the Genesis version (yes, I've done side-by-side comparisons; 32X has more frames on animation, far better colours, and more detail in the backgrounds) and runs much smoother than any of the other 32-bit ports (Saturn, PSX). The only comparable home versions of MKII are on the SNES (better sound) and XBOX/PS2/GameCube (emulated arcade version).

 

I'm not missing any points. Don't attempt to belittle me by saying such foolish things. You came into this thread proclaiming the 32X is somehow better than the Jag, with your little comparisons in which you almost always sided with the 32X (Chaotix better than Rayman? HAHA, Chaotix is pretty junk, horribly flawed rubber band gameplay that's a real pita, the game is over in about an hour as well. Rayman is a lot better... A LOT. So I'm trying to set the record straight here.

 

The reason I probably seem so sure of myself is because I have played THE SHIT out of both the 32X and the Jaguar SINCE 1994!!! I'm basing what I'm typing upon hundreds of hours of gameplay for both systems. I've owned nearly every single Jag game and approx. 3/4ths of the 32X library. Take of it what you will, I know we are all assholes with opinions, or something like that LOL. * I know it's opinions are like assholes, I'm just trying to be funny * I just thought it was rather brash of you to try to hoist the 32X's graphical capabilities to the level of the Jaguar. Sorry, it's just not happening. You take the best examples on the Jag and compare them to the best on the 32X and the Jag wins. Not by a ton, but anyway.

 

The Jaguar Doom version was released first by quite some time. I hope you aren't trying to say the 32X version came out first cus it didn't.. And yes I know all about the 32X launch cus I BOUGHT ONE ON LAUNCH DAY!.

 

And I'd argue equally as strongly with anyone that the PS and Saturn trounce the Jag when it comes to 3d. The Jag holds its own in 2d with those 2 very well though (see Rayman).

 

I'm not a fanboy of any company or system by any means. My favorite classic systems are NES Genesis Jaguar Playstation & Nintendo 64. I also like the 32X and SNES quite a bit. Saturn I'm kinda meh about since the PS rocks so hard.. And I don't play imports, too expensive and I can't read Japanese, so what's the point..

 

In the end, the main thing that bothers me about the 32X's graphics is the horrible resolution the games are displayed in. I guess that could be remedied by modding or whatever, but I'm just not the modding type.

Edited February 25, 2009 by kevincal

[kevincal]

The general consensus of games, not including Jag or 32X CD games..

 

33 good Jag games / 27 good 32X games. I was even nice and counted some 32X baseball/other sports and wrestling games as good when they probably aren't I even counted some Jag games as bad that I like, but that I know most people don't..

 

Alien vs. Predator good

Atari Karts good

Attack of the Mutant Penguins good

Brutal Sports Football good

Bubsy in Fractured Furry Tails bad

Cannon Fodder good

Checkered Flag bad

Club Drive bad

Cybermorph good

Defender 2000 good

Doom good

Double Dragon V bad

Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story bad

Evolution: Dino Dudes good

Fever Pitch Soccer good

Fight For Life bad

Flashback good

Flip Out! good

Hoverstrike good

Iron Soldier good

I-War good

Kasumi Ninja bad

Missile Command 3d good

NBA Jam: Tournament Edition good

Pinball Fantasies good

Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure good

Power Drive Rally good

Raiden good

Rayman good

Ruiner Pinball good

Sensible Soccer good

Super Burnout good

Supercross 3D bad

Syndicate good

Tempest 2000 good

Theme Park good

Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy bad

Troy Aikman NFL Football bad

Ultra Vortek good

Val D'isére Skiing and Snowboarding good

White Men Can't Jump bad

Wolfenstein 3D good

Zool 2 good

Zoop good

 

Brutal: Above the Claw good

After Burner good

T-Mek good

NFL Quarterback Club bad

36 Great Holes Golf bad

Metal Head good

Motocross championship bad

RBI Baseball ‘95 good

Primal Rage good

Space Harrier good

Virtua Fighter good

Tempo good

Virtua Racing Deluxe good

Doom good

Cosmic Carnage bad

Mortal Kombat II good

Star Wars Arcade good

Knuckles Chaotix good

Kolibri good

NBA Jam: TE good

Shadow Squadron good

B.C. Racers good

BlackThorne good

Pitfall: Mayan Adventure good

Spider-Man: Web of Fire good

Star Trek: StarFleet Academy good

Toughman Contest good

World Series Baseball: Starring Deon Sanders good

WWF Raw good

WWF Wrestleman: The Arcade Game good

Zaxxon’s Motherbase 2000 good

[kevincal]

And of course, that's not even counting the DOZENS of awesome homebrews etc. released on the Jag after its death. So again, your opinion that the Jag and the 32X are equal in both graphics and amount of good games is starting to look a bit ludicrous You try to make me out as a Jag fanboy, when it's really YOU who are the 32X fanboy! ;D

[minuS]

I don't even know where to begin, man... Have you read all of my posts? Is English your first language? Those are honest questions. I'm not trying to belittle you and I never said the 32X was better than the Jaguar, so I'm genuinely confused about where this tirade is coming from. I can only guess that you're either skimming the details of my posts or not grasping what I'm saying. Here it is, as simple as I can make it: The 32X is not the worst system ever. It is actually quite good. That is all. Calm down.

 

I do stand corrected on the DOOM release date issue though. I remembered reading that the 32X version was finished first, but it was indeed released about two weeks after the Jaguar version in November of 1994... My bad.