Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[DimensionX]

Can we come to final conclusion of this thread? What have we learned?

We learned that mine is better than yours... no matter what mine is or what yours is.

 

What we actually learned was, "mine is better then yours" applies only for that particular person. In reality it isn't such thing as best, just different.

[DimensionX]

Can we come to final conclusion of this thread? What have we learned?

We learned that mine is better than yours... no matter what mine is or what yours is.

 

Mine is getting a cup of tea, does yours want one?

 

While you get yourself a cup of (lipton? or jackson?)

 

Try this...

 

Want to make screenshot collections easy, like the ones i have posted?

 

Use XnView

 

XnView supports 513 different picture formats from old Atari 800 graphic formats to C64 graphic formats or the latest JPG2000. It's easy to make screenshot collections of Atari or C64 games like my own in this thread. You can also link XnView to Total Commanders internal viewer if you use that app.

http://www.xnview.com/en/index.html

 

To make Animated gifs easy, use Photoscape

http://www.photoscape.org/ps/main/index.php

 

Both programs are freeware.

[TMR]

Want to make screenshot collections easy, like the ones i have posted?

 

Nope.

[DimensionX]

Want to make screenshot collections easy, like the ones i have posted?

 

Nope.

 

Ooh, i forgot. Sorry about that. I post Atari screens, you're not. Forget that tips, but perhaps other people can find it useful.

 

PNG, 684x492px, 31 KB (0.03 MB)

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

Want to make screenshot collections easy, like the ones i have posted?

 

Nope.

 

Ooh, i forgot. Sorry about that. I post Atari screens, you're not.

 

No, you post big feck off blocks of screens with no attributation and, whilst that's mostly okay for the title pages or the occasional title where the name is displayed during play, it does mean that a sizeable number of your screens can't be easily identified unless the viewer knows the game already - i've wanted to refer to specific shots previously and, although i recognised them i couldn't put a name to them. It's a major nuisance posting screens in that way, you'd do far better putting up individual images with notes like everyone else does.

 

It's also a nuisance to have to spawn those large images to another tab rather than just being able to view them within the thread.

[DimensionX]

Just middleclick to open i a new tab.

 

It's a plugin for Firefox that uses an real good image host that lets you upload and link your pics everywhere. Just click on the pic, then backspace back to the forum, or middleclick for opening in a new tab. Can't be easier.

https://addons.mozilla.org/sv-SE/firefox/addon/13669

 

Wee seems to like different type of graphics. I don't bother too much about multicolored sprites. I want clear and vivid colours instead.

 

That's okey by me if we don't share the same taste. As long as you stop complaining about Atari and trying to make C64 look like the worlds best 8 bit computer. In fact, you haven't show me a thing so far that's really impressed me.

 

Perhaps it's about time?

 

Go ahead and show what you got...

 

I think that C64 is best at showing single clear colours like in many older games, else the display becomes messy when you use dithering and trying to put to many colours in the same place. I prefer clean graphics. Lot of Atari games is way to messy too when they try to do something that the machine simply can't handle. Even ST games can become a mess if you're trying to do a little too much with the graphics.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[GroovyBee]

The other annoying thing is that your pictures aren't hosted on AA. So when your image site goes down or you remove the images nobody will know what you were on about.

[DimensionX]

The other annoying thing is that your pictures aren't hosted on AA. So when your image site goes down or you remove the images nobody will know what you were on about.

 

On the other hand, i can link them to my blog and other forums. So can you.

 

No, i will not remove them.

 

I hope that this picture host is stable because i use them in my own blogs too.

 

I link some of the pictures from Skydrive too, mostly animated gifs.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

Just middleclick to open i a new tab.

 

Unless you don't have a middle click on your mouse of course (i don't here and the trackpad on my laptop doesn't support it either). Or don't want to open another tab in the first place because you'd rather see the images in context with the text. And i notice you ignore the issues around attributation as well... it's an annoying way to post images and i hope that not one person adopts it because it just gets in the way of the conversation.

 

Wee seems to like different type of graphics. I don't bother too much about multicolored sprites. I want clear and vivid colours instead.

 

So, essentially, all those Atari 8-bit coders currently trying to get multicolour objects going are wasting their time according to you. Right lads, pack up your cross assemblers because we've all been doing it wrong - DimensionX said so!

[DimensionX]

Just middleclick to open i a new tab.

 

Unless you don't have a middle click on your mouse of course (i don't here and the trackpad on my laptop doesn't support it either). Or don't want to open another tab in the first place because you'd rather see the images in context with the text. And i notice you ignore the issues around attributation as well... it's an annoying way to post images and i hope that not one person adopts it because it just gets in the way of the conversation.

 

Wee seems to like different type of graphics. I don't bother too much about multicolored sprites. I want clear and vivid colours instead.

 

So, essentially, all those Atari 8-bit coders currently trying to get multicolour objects going are wasting their time according to you. Right lads, pack up your cross assemblers because we've all been doing it wrong - DimensionX said so!

 

No i didn't, i said what i personally prefer. I can't speak for you or anyone else, can i? Okey, i can post the pictures using the forums own upload feature with some text if you want. No problem for me.

[DimensionX]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

[PeteD]

 

Perhaps it's about time?

 

Go ahead and show what you got...

 

I think that C64 is best at showing single clear colours like in many older games, else the display becomes messy when you use dithering and trying to put to many colours in the same place. I prefer clean graphics. Lot of Atari games is way to messy too when they try to do something that the machine simply can't handle. Even ST games can become a mess if you're trying to do a little too much with the graphics.

 

Oh now you really don't want to start that.

 

 

Pete

[DimensionX]

 

Perhaps it's about time?

 

Go ahead and show what you got...

 

I think that C64 is best at showing single clear colours like in many older games, else the display becomes messy when you use dithering and trying to put to many colours in the same place. I prefer clean graphics. Lot of Atari games is way to messy too when they try to do something that the machine simply can't handle. Even ST games can become a mess if you're trying to do a little too much with the graphics.

 

Oh now you really don't want to start that.

 

 

Pete

 

Because i'm going to be like you and complain about everything all the time? Well, show me something that's impress me and i won't complain at all. I have posted lots of screenshots, now it's your turn?

 

Or, forget it. That's up to you.

 

Wee seems to have different thoughts of what's "great graphics" anyway.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

[PeteD]

So now your true colours come out. I've certainly not complained about anything apart from pointing out that some of the so called wonderful images you post look terrible, you even agreed that the colour choice on some was bad, so why post them? Now you're obviously down to Atari IS better than C64 and until you post some pictures to prove it I'm right. If that's your attitude then there's no point continuing.

 

If you use the forum search function you can find plenty of threads where all this has been gone over and over and some of us are kind of sick of posting the same stuff that is obviously amazing only to have people who are too chicken to admit something might look good just say "no, I don't like it" so there's really no point.

 

 

Pete

Edited April 27, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle. Many ST games was a big mess of pixels too. Bitmap Brothers on the other hand always created clean real good looking graphics instead. Speedball, Xenon, Magic Pockets, Cadaver, Chaos Engine and such games.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle. Many ST games was a big mess of pixels too. Bitmap Brothers on the other hand always created clean real good looking graphics instead.

 

But the C64 CAN handle lots of colours on screen so why is that a mess? People continually try to copy C64 stuff on the Atari, there must be a reason for that? It's to show that the Atari can do it, sometimes they manage it, sometimes not.

 

*edit*

And has been said about the "rainbows", the fact the Bitmap's games looked good was down to the artist, not the ST.

 

 

Pete

Edited April 27, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

So now your true colours come out. I've certainly not complained about anything apart from pointing out that some of the so called wonderful images you post look terrible, you even agreed that the colour choice on some was bad, so why post them? Now you're obviously down to Atari IS better than C64 and until you post some pictures to prove it I'm right. If that's your attitude then there's no point continuing.

 

If you use the forum search function you can find plenty of threads where all this has been gone over and over and some of us are kind of sick of posting the same stuff that is obviously amazing only to have people who are too chicken to admit something might look good just say "no, I don't like it" so there's really no point.

 

 

Pete

 

C'mon Pete, i just trying to be honest and to tell you what graphics i personally prefer, and why i like the look of the games on Atari 800, but not all of them, off course. I don't really care about multicolored sprites because i prefer clean graphics instead. And A8 really delivers clean colours. That's why i like this 8bit computer so much.

[DimensionX]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle. Many ST games was a big mess of pixels too. Bitmap Brothers on the other hand always created clean real good looking graphics instead.

 

But the C64 CAN handle lots of colours on screen so why is that a mess? People continually try to copy C64 stuff on the Atari, there must be a reason for that? It's to show that the Atari can do it, sometimes they manage it, sometimes not.

 

*edit*

And has been said about the "rainbows", the fact the Bitmap's games looked good was down to the artist, not the ST.

 

 

Pete

 

For your knowledge.

 

Bitmap Brothers games was so outstanding designed from the beginning that they never changed the look when converted to another console or computer. The Megadrive version looked just the same as the ST version.

 

Instead of making a mess of the pixels, they produced clean graphics, using few colours.

 

You might like that smeared look of dithered pixels, i certanly don't.

 

In the game "Gods" you will even find a gradient background to enhance the game.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle.

 

So when those graphics are on the C64 they're a "smeared mess" but put them on the Atari and suddenly they're "clean". Not sure if i understand how that works but okay, i'll add a footnote about only ripping from Uridium or something.

[PeteD]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle. Many ST games was a big mess of pixels too. Bitmap Brothers on the other hand always created clean real good looking graphics instead.

 

But the C64 CAN handle lots of colours on screen so why is that a mess? People continually try to copy C64 stuff on the Atari, there must be a reason for that? It's to show that the Atari can do it, sometimes they manage it, sometimes not.

 

*edit*

And has been said about the "rainbows", the fact the Bitmap's games looked good was down to the artist, not the ST.

 

 

Pete

 

For your knowledge.

 

Bitmap Brothers games was so outstanding designed from the beginning that they never changed the look when converted to another console or computer. The Megadrive version looked just the same as the ST version.

 

Instead of making a mess of the pixels, they produced clean graphics, using few colours.

 

You might like that smeared look of dithered pixels, i certanly don't.

 

Ok, for MY knowledge? thanks for that. For your knowledge, I used to work with one of the Bitmap Brothers guys, I've been a game coder/designer/producer since the mid 80s, I understand how this stuff works. I know why their stuff looks good and as I've said, it's the artist NOT the machine. You seem to be blaming the C64 for being ABLE to put lots of colours on the screen and somehow it's the C64 and every coders fault that you can't port that to other machines.

 

The Megadrive/ST/Amiga etc versions looked the same because they all had around the same graphical capabilities, simple.

 

Also, I've never said I like smeared pixels. You seem to take something I say like "I don't like those ugly rainbows behind Chop Suey, etc" and equate that as I hate everything you've posted. That's wrong.

 

*edit*

At least the gradient in Gods is a sensible one. That's what I was trying to point out yesterday. I don't have a problem with the technique as long as it's used well.

 

Pete

Edited April 27, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle.

 

So when those graphics are on the C64 they're a "smeared mess" but put them on the Atari and suddenly they're "clean". Not sure if i understand how that works but okay, i'll add a footnote about only ripping from Uridium or something.

 

You know quite well what i mean. And if your taste is different from my own, nothing wrong about that. But don't expect me to admire what i see as a mess of pixels.

[DimensionX]

THIS is what i prefer. Clean graphics that aren't messy. Then i don't really care if that ship has 1, 2 or 15 colours.

 

Ataris remake of Uridium

 

Ah, so you just want ripped off C64 graphics! Okay, noted.

 

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle. Many ST games was a big mess of pixels too. Bitmap Brothers on the other hand always created clean real good looking graphics instead.

 

But the C64 CAN handle lots of colours on screen so why is that a mess? People continually try to copy C64 stuff on the Atari, there must be a reason for that? It's to show that the Atari can do it, sometimes they manage it, sometimes not.

 

*edit*

And has been said about the "rainbows", the fact the Bitmap's games looked good was down to the artist, not the ST.

 

 

Pete

 

For your knowledge.

 

Bitmap Brothers games was so outstanding designed from the beginning that they never changed the look when converted to another console or computer. The Megadrive version looked just the same as the ST version.

 

Instead of making a mess of the pixels, they produced clean graphics, using few colours.

 

You might like that smeared look of dithered pixels, i certanly don't.

 

Ok, for MY knowledge? thanks for that. For your knowledge, I used to work with one of the Bitmap Brothers guys, I've been a game coder/designer/producer since the mid 80s, I understand how this stuff works. I know why their stuff looks good and as I've said, it's the artist NOT the machine. You seem to be blaming the C64 for being ABLE to put lots of colours on the screen and somehow it's the C64 and every coders fault that you can't port that to other machines.

 

The Megadrive/ST/Amiga etc versions looked the same because they all had around the same graphical capabilities, simple.

 

Also, I've never said I like smeared pixels. You seem to take something I say like "I don't like those ugly rainbows behind Chop Suey, etc" and equate that as I hate everything you've posted. That's wrong.

 

 

Pete

 

A long time coder?

 

It's lightyears difference between a Megadrive and a ST in just about everything thanks to Megadrives outstandnding support chips. The Amiga version look just the same as the ST version too.

 

No, C64 can't produce clean multicolour games using methods as dithering. There's to few colours and to low resolution for that. Change to Amiga, then it's possible.

[TMR]

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle.

 

So when those graphics are on the C64 they're a "smeared mess" but put them on the Atari and suddenly they're "clean". Not sure if i understand how that works but okay, i'll add a footnote about only ripping from Uridium or something.

 

You know quite well what i mean. And if your taste is different from my own, nothing wrong about that. But don't expect me to admire what i see as a mess of pixels.

 

No, i haven't got a clue what you mean and have been saying so for days now - you keep using the word "clean" without actually defining it but right now it seems that simple bias relief is "clean" (although apparently only in Atari colours for some reason) whilst more complex images with dithering somehow aren't.

[DimensionX]

No, i want clean graphics over a smeared mess of pixels that's often the case when you're trying to do more then the machine can handle.

 

So when those graphics are on the C64 they're a "smeared mess" but put them on the Atari and suddenly they're "clean". Not sure if i understand how that works but okay, i'll add a footnote about only ripping from Uridium or something.

 

You know quite well what i mean. And if your taste is different from my own, nothing wrong about that. But don't expect me to admire what i see as a mess of pixels.

 

No, i haven't got a clue what you mean and have been saying so for days now - you keep using the word "clean" without actually defining it but right now it seems that simple bias relief is "clean" (although apparently only in Atari colours for some reason) whilst more complex images with dithering somehow aren't.

 

Clean is by using either few colours or more single coloured objects, else the display will become messy because the machine can't handle it. Try Amiga for clean multicoloured sprites.