XE was a faliure, I thought it should have been marketed better + joypad!

[ApolloBoy]

If those A__hats at M$ could do that they would have done it long ago. They have been trying to buy rather than innovate the console market for a long time. Still isn't working for them this cycle.

 

 

:roll:

 

 

You wrote roll roll roll. I think you meant troll troll troll

Your disagreement doesn't change the fact that my statement was correct.

Troll on troll!

You know, I think you proved his point.

[atarian63]

If those A__hats at M$ could do that they would have done it long ago. They have been trying to buy rather than innovate the console market for a long time. Still isn't working for them this cycle.

 

 

:roll:

 

 

You wrote roll roll roll. I think you meant troll troll troll

Your disagreement doesn't change the fact that my statement was correct.

Troll on troll!

I see why nobody here likes you.

I thought that was you. Smile Fast Rob Plus!

Edited May 29, 2009 by atarian63

[atarian63]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

It does seem necessary to point out things from that dealers(deal with it) point of view since you seem to fire off non-sensical things with no perspective in reality.Many of these things are subjective and a different opinion must bother you. Also since the topic is in a retro section you might want to focus on that. Yep from your point of view all new complex things are better because they are new.Nothing existed before or had much merit as only new and modern are useful.

You must think that all previous era's sucked and we just magically arrived at this Nirvana state of gaming

Yep all new stuff is just perfection in your world,though many here have pointed out that modern systems seem to have lost something.Maybe you just are too young and inexperienced or have been spending too much time living in your parent basement. Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

Edited May 29, 2009 by atarian63

[atariksi]

It still comes to down to each of our respective opinions. You may say it's a "fact" that a controller with 10+ buttons is more confusing than one with one or two buttons and I may superficially agree, but that doesn't mean it's not better to have MORE buttons than fewer, only that the learning curve is most likely higher on the multi-button controller. A TV that receives only five channels is far easier to work with than a TV that receives hundreds, but I think most people would prefer receiving hundreds of channels. All more buttons means are more functionality and more options. Again, it's up to the developer how the controller is used and whether most, all or only one of the buttons are worked into the gameplay. And no, we DON'T need digital control for 3D games. Analog is superior the majority of the time. Your timing argument is irrelevant in real world operation. I'm not talking about what your meter says, but actual real world play.

 

It's not an opinion, if you go try reading an analog joystick on PC, XBOX, and various other systems, you will see it's more difficult to deal with. If you try playing different games that use many many buttons, you will also be confused to as to which button to press-- yeah sure you can get used to it but that's the whole point-- there's more of a learning curve. TV receiving hundreds of channels but you still use the same buttons to change channels-- so analogy does not apply. Real world is what I am talking about. You see so many people selling digital joystick interfaces for PC-- you think they are all not part of the real world. I programmed for 10+ machines with several different joystick interfaces. It's easier to learn a game and play with less buttons and there's no calibration either for digital joysticks and their self-centering as well. I have seen many games in 3D work fine with digital joysticks. Only ones that I have seen that don't work is because they were PURPOSELY made to use analog sticks. You can even write a Super Breakout using a digital joystick.

 

That's one of the problems-- it's up to the developer to see how to use the buttons. Each game will use it's own buttons for different purposes and that creates confusion as to which buttons to press for what purpose.

 

 

Again, who cares if it's harder to "read" an analog joystick other than the developer? As long as it's transparent to the user, it really doesn't matter. And while you say you can play Super Breakout with a digital joystick, naturally the best possible control is a spinner/paddle. You can play a game with any type of control. It doesn't mean it's the ideal control. 3D works better with analog, just like Super Breakout works better with a spinner or paddle over either a digital or analog joystick. Regardless, this is a silly, circular argument and neither analog or digital control schemes are going away. For the forseeable future, analog will be front and center (along with analog-like touch and motion), with digital secondary. No big deal, really, and I don't think the end user cares. They'll play what's put in front of them.

 

My point is not only difficult for programming but also difficult to use (and get used to). And the difficulty isn't the expertise needed for programming -- it takes more CPU time as well to read analog sticks. As I stated, I experimented with some kids 5-7 years old trying to get them to play some games. They easily started playing Atari games using it's joystick but XBOX sticks were over their capacity to get used to. They don't even have consistent labels-- "Start to continue" means select or vice versa. It's not a circular argument. There's a FEAR/IGNORANCE factor involved when you introduce a bunch of controls to someone. The more the ignorance, the worse for the user. Handing someone a few pages of instructions for all the buttons is worse for the user than a simple joystick which can be figured out experimentally without even needing any instructions. And who is going to remember all those instructions if he switches between hundreds of games (like Atarians are used to doing).

 

You should understand why analog is dominant in the PC market. They started with a gameport which was a very cheap design and extremely slow and analog in nature. This was while Atari/Amiga/C64/Atari ST/Sega/Vic-20/etc. had digital joysticks. To keep backward compatibility, they have maintained that analog joystick port up until today. The only thing they did was gradually starting using USB versions instead of gameport versions. And also note that Atari analog Paddles are also an option available for Ataris so they don't always have to use digital in extreme cases where analog values are a must. For PCs (and XBOXes), you are basically stuck with analog sticks and for XBOXes also dealing with 10+ buttons since digital joysticks are nonstandard in the PC world although they are superior. Digital joysticks are NOT secondary from useability and programming perspective. Only if you go by marketing, you can say analog are first.

[atariksi]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

It does seem necessary to point out things from that dealers(deal with it) point of view since you seem to fire off non-sensical things with no perspective in reality.Many of these things are subjective and a different opinion must bother you. Also since the topic is in a retro section you might want to focus on that. Yep from your point of view all new complex things are better because they are new.Nothing existed before or had much merit as only new and modern are useful.

You must think that all previous era's sucked and we just magically arrived at this Nirvana state of gaming

Yep all new stuff is just perfection in your world,though many here have pointed out that modern systems seem to have lost something.Maybe you just are too young and inexperienced or have been spending too much time living in your parent basement. Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

I think he can't accept that Maximillian (from movie Black Hole) killed people with his propeller using a prototype of the XBOX joystick.

[carmel_andrews]

if you want to blame someone for the joy/gamepad thing...then the blame squarely lies with nintendo and sega, after all their gaming thingies were the first to using this contraptions

[FastRobPlus]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

[atariksi]

if you want to blame someone for the joy/gamepad thing...then the blame squarely lies with nintendo and sega, after all their gaming thingies were the first to using this contraptions

 

It seems Atari started all the gaming devices and others speculated newer and newer contraptions.

 

Even the mouse should be simple. I have seen mice that have like 10+ buttons on them and moving around the screen becomes inhibited. You have to hold the mouse in such a way as if you are holding some freshly taken Polaroid picture. One bad press here or there, and either your website flips back to some page or some menu pops up on the desktop.

[Bill Loguidice]

if you want to blame someone for the joy/gamepad thing...then the blame squarely lies with nintendo and sega, after all their gaming thingies were the first to using this contraptions

 

It seems Atari started all the gaming devices and others speculated newer and newer contraptions.

 

Even the mouse should be simple. I have seen mice that have like 10+ buttons on them and moving around the screen becomes inhibited. You have to hold the mouse in such a way as if you are holding some freshly taken Polaroid picture. One bad press here or there, and either your website flips back to some page or some menu pops up on the desktop.

 

While you seem to have technical skills, you also seem to be rather poorly coordinated.

 

Also, Atari was by no means the first with the majority of control devices, though they were undeniably influential.

[atariksi]

if you want to blame someone for the joy/gamepad thing...then the blame squarely lies with nintendo and sega, after all their gaming thingies were the first to using this contraptions

 

It seems Atari started all the gaming devices and others speculated newer and newer contraptions.

 

Even the mouse should be simple. I have seen mice that have like 10+ buttons on them and moving around the screen becomes inhibited. You have to hold the mouse in such a way as if you are holding some freshly taken Polaroid picture. One bad press here or there, and either your website flips back to some page or some menu pops up on the desktop.

 

While you seem to have technical skills, you also seem to be rather poorly coordinated.

 

Also, Atari was by no means the first with the majority of control devices, though they were undeniably influential.

 

You don't accept that mice exist with 10+ buttons or are you arguing variety of gaming controllers.

 

Okay, I guess you have experience with this one, so list some of the control devices during late 70s/early 80s.

[carmel_andrews]

at least i know why i didn't bother with a 7800 (which came with one of those nintendoid alike contraptions)

 

birng back the cx40....thats what i say (or joysticks of that ilk)

[Bill Loguidice]

You don't accept that mice exist with 10+ buttons or are you arguing variety of gaming controllers.

 

Okay, I guess you have experience with this one, so list some of the control devices during late 70s/early 80s.

 

I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're going strictly by videogame consoles intended for home use, just look at the Odyssey (multi-function paddles, light gun), Fairchild VES (pistol-grip controller with four way digital control, as well push up/down and twist functionality) and RCA Studio II, which featured essentially a pair of numeric keypads for control. All of these came out before the VCS, which featured a digital one button joystick and paddles, and soon released a keypad controller of its own.

 

Obviously the computer situation was far different, as was the stuff going on on the mainframe computer side and in the arcades. Again, Atari was involved in some of that merely by being in existence since 1972 (and prior to that spiritually with Bushnell and Dabney with Computer Space) as an arcade force, but it's not like nothing was going on prior to the VCS's release in 1977 at home or otherwise, of a non- single button paddle variety.

[FastRobPlus]

*edit* removed - duplicate?

Edited May 29, 2009 by FastRobPlus

[FastRobPlus]

You don't accept that mice exist with 10+ buttons or are you arguing variety of gaming controllers.

 

Okay, I guess you have experience with this one, so list some of the control devices during late 70s/early 80s.

 

I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're going strictly by videogame consoles intended for home use, just look at the Odyssey (multi-function paddles, light gun), Fairchild VES (pistol-grip controller with four way digital control, as well push up/down and twist functionality) and RCA Studio II, which featured essentially a pair of numeric keypads for control. All of these came out before the VCS, which featured a digital one button joystick and paddles, and soon released a keypad controller of its own.

 

Obviously the computer situation was far different, as was the stuff going on on the mainframe computer side and in the arcades. Again, Atari was involved in some of that merely by being in existence since 1972 (and prior to that spiritually with Bushnell and Dabney with Computer Space) as an arcade force, but it's not like nothing was going on prior to the VCS's release in 1977 at home or otherwise, of a non- single button paddle variety.

 

Got to agree with Bill here. I've watched enough Starcraft players (Seattle hosted the WCS in 2007) that I know you need a controller that is very specialized. If that's a 10 button mouse with macros, then so be it. If that's a keyboard, so be it. There is a balance between what type of games the device is being asked to play and what types of controllers are best suited for the device.

 

I remember trying to play Mortal Kombat II on an Amiga with the one button Joystick. That was just silly! To make that kind of game work they had to map each of the 8 directions both with button depressed and not depressed, and map a bunch of extra "memory moves" to the stick to approximate the moves that were easily remembered using a Genesis gamepad with its 3 buttons. Classic case of wrong game for the controller type. We've also seen pac-man mapped to a non-centering analog stick (like on the apple) Another classic bad input experience.

 

Not sure how this thread devolved into a fanboi argument around how awful companies keep creating newer and newer nightmare controllers - I guess the OP thought that the XEGS would have been better had it included a gamepad. Actually, he may be right if only from a marketing perspective. At the time Nintendo was the heavy hitter so a gamepad may have been seen as newer/better in much the same way touch/gesture interfaces are gaining steam today. I find it ironic that the XEGS often came bundled with the keyboard and its legendarily short cord and a copy of Flight simulator II, basically meaning if you used the console as a console, you had to sit really close to the TV to access your 58-button controller to play some of the games!

 

To bring us back on topic, maybe the XEGS' shortcoming was that from the late 1970s to the early 1980s, most video game consoles promised to have a keyboard attachment "coming soon" to help convince parents to splurge for the device. The future promise being that your game system could do double duty as a home PC, help in school, etc. When the XEGS was released and was a perhaps the first console that fully and cheaply delivered on this promise, the world had become more accepting of consoles as pure entertainment devices and didn't really care that the XEGS could transform into a home PC.

Edited May 29, 2009 by FastRobPlus

[Bill Loguidice]

Not sure how this thread devolved into a fanboi argument around new, awful companies creating nightmare controllers - I guess the OP thought that the XEGS would have been better had it included a gamepad. Actually, he may be right if only from a marketing perspective. At the time Nintendo was

 

That's of course assuming that the XEGS's or 7800's or even 2600jr's relative failure against the NES was because of their controls. It wasn't. It was the software. All the good games - or to put it another way, the games that people began to care about - were exclusively on the NES (and Nintendo's policies kept it that way for some time). That didn't do Sega any favors on the SMS side of things either. It took a generational leap in hardware technology combined with games like Madden, NHL and Sonic to ultimately dethrone the NES as the hot console.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Bill_Loguidice

[FastRobPlus]

Not sure how this thread devolved into a fanboi argument around new, awful companies creating nightmare controllers - I guess the OP thought that the XEGS would have been better had it included a gamepad. Actually, he may be right if only from a marketing perspective. At the time Nintendo was

 

That's of course assuming that the XEGS's or 7800's or even 2600jr's relative failure against the NES was because of their controls. It wasn't. It was the software. All the good games - or to put it another way, the games that people began to care about - were exclusively on the NES (and Nintendo's policies kept it that way for some time). That didn't do Sega any favors on the SMS side of things either. It took a generational leap in hardware technology combined with games like Madden, NHL and Sonic to ultimately dethrone the NES as the hot console.

 

Very true.

[atarian63]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

Why would I care what you think? I know it is you that is being perceived poorly. Must be the tiny crowd you hang with.

Must be why there is no love for you here.

You know there is an ignore function.. I am turning it on for your waste of time posts.

[atarian63]

at least i know why i didn't bother with a 7800 (which came with one of those nintendoid alike contraptions)

 

birng back the cx40....thats what i say (or joysticks of that ilk)

So true Carmel

[FastRobPlus]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

 

You know there is an ignore function..

 

Do us all a favor and simply quit posting.

[atarian63]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

 

You know there is an ignore function..

 

Do us all a favor and simply quit posting.

Wow, did you get promoted to moderator? Get lost!

[FastRobPlus]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

 

You know there is an ignore function..

 

Do us all a favor and simply quit posting.

Wow, did you get promoted to moderator? Get lost!

 

See, this is why nobody likes you.

[carmel_andrews]

Any way, perhaps if atari focused less on adapting disk games to cartridge and focused on original software (i.e airball, tower toppler/commando etc) and improved distribution it might have stood a chance

 

I never saw the likes of battlezone, tower toopler or airball actually on cartridge because sillica/sdl told me of atari poor distrinbution of these titles prefering instead to concentrating on cart versions of disk games (like karateka, ace of aces, crystal castles, RoF etc) as well as the re released A800 carts (i.e pacman, defender, Star raiders etc)

Edited May 29, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[Bill Loguidice]

Any way, perhaps if atari focused less on adapting disk games to cartridge and focused on original software (i.e airball, tower toppler/commando etc) and improved distribution it might have stood a chance

 

I never saw the likes of battlezone, tower toopler or airball actually on cartridge because sillica/sdl told me of atari poor distrinbution of these titles prefering instead to concentrating on cart versions of disk games (like karateka, ace of aces, crystal castles, RoF etc) as well as the re released A800 carts (i.e pacman, defender, Star raiders etc)

 

With five concurrent platforms to support, Atari would have never had the resources to do any better software-wise, and as mentioned, Nintendo locked up all the hot titles/developers/publishers anyway. Even if they weren't, most of those games were probably better suited to the NES and its abilities than anything less than the Sega Master System anyway. Outside of hammering home the software point, Atari should have concentrated on two product lines post crash and been done with it: one console and one computer. Naturally the computer would have had to have been the ST line, while the console could have been any of the three on the market, the 2600jr, the 7800 or the XEGS/Atari 8-bit. With it's backwards compatibility with the 2600 and most NES-like abilities, I would think the focus would have to have been on the 7800. So, in my opinion, with 20/20 hindsight, the only logical answer would have been concentrate resources on the 7800 and ST line and wait out Nintendo like Sega did, release the Panther, then be on your way. History shows there would have been nothing to stop the DOS/Windows onslaught, but certainly the ST line could have remained more profitable and less damaging for the company if the ties to the 8-bit stuff were severed sooner. Again, it's all about surviving in a niche if need be and biding time to strike from a position of strength and unity.

[atarian63]

That's a rather self-serving argument. Of course digital control is better for Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, et al., as that's what they were designed for, just like a 4 way joystick is better for Pac-Man than an 8-way. Modern 3D games require the subtler control of analog. Obviously it's not ideal for a modern controller to try and play most classic games, just like it's not ideal for a classic Atari joystick to control most modern 3D games. It all comes down to how well the control options of the game are designed. The controller is almost irrelevant. Having had the luxury of using and still owning nearly every system ever made, I can honestly say that there have been few truly great controller designs, and to me, to say something like the Xbox 360 controller is no good means you probably haven't used one, as it certainly ranks as one of the great controller designs in my experience.

Oh I have used one at Best buy and it sucks just like the original xbox controller does. That is probably why I am more of a Wii console person than M$ or pS3. Modern gaming for me mostly is a dead end for fun titles as each system comes out I am buying fewer and fewer titles as they are too complex or hard to control to be much fun. The Wii is the exception, I have bought quite a few for it. Maybe that is the dividing line. Casual gaming VS whatever that multibuttonrpg console thing is. Give me a good quick shooter or rail gun game anyday. Jumpers,climbers,or puzzle games.

I suppose that is why there is room for 3 consoles. To each his own. I am just glad there is still something in modern gaming that catches my interest(Wii)(DS).

Still mostly playing 7800 and 8bit atari with some occasional Saturn.

 

Hmm... I find I have to agree with you here. When I was young back in the 1920s I ran an Atari dealership (the only worthwhile thing I ever did so I'll mention it at every opportunity) and we didn't need controllers with 20,000 buttons and analog sticks for each finger. No sir! We had blocks of wood with a wire running out of them right into the ground! We didn't even need one button. We smacked that piece of wood into our faces and that made the games work. I jut don't understand how we get further and further from that perfection with every generation. All new things are bad period! And getting worse! It's gotten so bad that I've gotta make sure everyone knows about it even if it's wildly off topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to walk uphill in the snow for 5 miles both ways to get to a ham radio forum where they NEED TO HEAR about how bad modern consoles have gotten!

Last I checked this is a retro site. Maybe your point is that there should be no other points of view. Rah Rah new consoles.

Maybe you have somewhere else to troll?

 

If it's a retro gaming site, and a retro gaming thread in a retro gaming forum, how do you think you are contributing by bringing your off topic-antics to it? This is why nobody here likes you.

 

You know there is an ignore function..

 

Do us all a favor and simply quit posting.

Wow, did you get promoted to moderator? Get lost!

 

See, this is why nobody likes you.

Keep trying..

[Chickybaby]

I am sorry that some of you had to ruin this thread by bickering back and forth like children.

Finis.