Needing advice on my first Atari computer

[whovian]

Well, I've owned dozens of computers and console systems, and I've done a bit of research, and would like to get my first Atari computer.

 

I'm looking for the least expensive option that will play a majority of the cartridge games, and work with monitor (SVGA if possible) or TV, and will probably use it to teach myself BASIC again. I learned it a bit in high school, but the glaciers around the world have all thawed, so it's been awhile. I have a long-term goal of creating a homebrew too. At first I don't need a floppy, etc., but would like to have the option in future.

 

I guess if anyone has a good unit to sell you could let me know too. Or, I can hunt one down based off recommendations.

 

Any help is appreciated!

[AB Positive]

Well I think you have to do some modding/upscaling to get any classic computer up to SVGA - that being said...

 

sounds like what you want is an 800XL. Plays majority of games, and the few that require more than 64K on board you can easily upgrade it if you have some soldering skills... or pick up an upgrade kit from Best or B&C.

 

800 XL also will have BASIC built in - my ram upgraded 600 XL was what I relearned BASIC on - great system and setup.

 

I recommend *against* the XEs if only because they've been known to crap out keyboard-wise... rather easily too. 800XL is much more sturdy and easier to the beginner. Hope this helps!

[Sub(Function(:))]

Well, I've owned dozens of computers and console systems, and I've done a bit of research, and would like to get my first Atari computer.

 

I'm looking for the least expensive option that will play a majority of the cartridge games, and work with monitor (SVGA if possible) or TV, and will probably use it to teach myself BASIC again. I learned it a bit in high school, but the glaciers around the world have all thawed, so it's been awhile. I have a long-term goal of creating a homebrew too. At first I don't need a floppy, etc., but would like to have the option in future.

 

I guess if anyone has a good unit to sell you could let me know too. Or, I can hunt one down based off recommendations.

 

Any help is appreciated!

 

The problem with the Atari Computer range 400, 800, XL and XE range is to get the most out of them you will need a Disk Drive. This is because most of the games came on Disk. There is a good sized library on cartridge but you will be missing out on a lot of the fun. Also without a storage device (Floppy or tape) you will not be able to save your work when programming/learning BASIC.

 

As has been already mentioned VGA monitors are out of the question without spending more money on video converters. Ataris output RF, Composite video and in some cases S-Video. If you have a monitor/flat screen TV that also does S-Video or Composite video this may work, there are threads on this site that make some monitor suggestions that have been known to work.

 

I would say if you are only getting your feet wet, then it may be better to suggest you emulate the Atari on a modern computer (if you have one available). you will be able to program in basic (best for the XL/XE range is TurboBASIC XL). The Emulators will run most of the games available for the atari range, and you can switch configurations really easily for the stubborn games that will not run on the newer machines. In short you can find out what you really want before spending too much cash on a real system. Bonus of Emulators is they also emulate hardware such as hard disks/tapes/printers etc.

 

I would say nothing beat a real system, but find out what you really want before you buy one.

 

My minimum recommendation (for real system) would be

• Atari 800XL (130XE if you program a lot, the extra memory is useful as a ramdisk)
  
• APE interface to a PC (acts as a disk drive emulator, like having 8 Disk drive attached to the atari. sio2pc would also do)
  
• PC (old laptop to host the APE software and also store your floppy disk images)
  
• Composite Video cable (S-Video if you have a 130XE)
  
• A few Atari style joysticks, they tend to break under heavy gaming
  
• and a monitor capable of taking the video input of you selection.
  

 

Hope this helps

[Reaperman]

I also recommend 800xl, it's as close to 'standard' as you can get in the 8-bit atari computer world.

 

but I also recommend the sio2sd device for playing games and saving data to disk. It's not terribly expensive and is an sd drive so you don't have to deal with disk or tape media--which is a good thing these days. It also makes it really easy to play all those disk images on real hardware.

 

that's literally all I have for a primary setup--an 800xl with upgraded ram (really don't use the upgrade much), an sio2sd and a pile of ancient controllers/accesories.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Reaperman

[WizWor]

Not sure what 'standard' is, but the least expensive way to enjoy most 8-bit software is to assemble this...

 

1) XEGS

2) SIO2PCUSB

3) Maxflash Cart

 

I like the SEGS because it will play most games and has composite out. That RCA cable connection is much better that any kind of RF solution. If you want better, you'll need to hack your hardware or get a cable off ebay.

 

SIO2PC allows you to attach your Atari computer to a PC and use the PC as a server or disk. Once you have these two components, you can download games from the internet and play them on your Atari -- no need for carts or a disk. You'll need some kind of software and I recommend APE. It's worth registering, but the unregistered software will do all you need.

 

The Maxflash cart will store about 50 games. You can use software called MakeMenu to make most games run off the cart on your XEGS. I like this because I do not need to permanently tether my A8 to a PC and I can instantly boot my A8 when feel like a couple minutes of River Raid.

 

For a joystick, I'd scour ebay for a couple cx40s or the maxflash version of same. I also like the wico boss.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of retro computing!

[+Philsan]

I prefer Atari 130XE because of its 128KB and s-video output.

 

As storage device,

 

if you have and want a PC near to your Atari you can buy SIO2PC (I prefer USB version, AtariAge user classics $60):

http://www.atarimax.com/sio2pc/documentation/

Otherwise you can buy independent self-powered devices like SIO2SD:

http://marcinprusisz.pl/ (AtariAge user Pigula, $50)

http://www.mmj.pl/~lotharek/atari/(AtariAge user lotharek, €90)

http://mega-hz.no-ip.com/Angebote/SIO2SD/SIO2SD%20rev.2.html (€80)

or Sdrive:

http://nuxx.net/wiki/SDrive_NUXX (AtariAge user c0nsumer, $150)

http://morethangames.a8maestro.com/proda8/adv-ek0130.htm

 

Of course if you are able you can build yourself these devices.

[candle]

i would go for 130xe, since it is easy to extend in every possible manner

at least here in poland - things like stereo upgrades, vbxe or other internal extensions are designed closly having in mind its board clerance constrains

 

the most popular in here is that having 4 chips of ram, whereas on eastern side of europe its the 16 chip version

[whovian]

i would go for 130xe, since it is easy to extend in every possible manner

at least here in poland - things like stereo upgrades, vbxe or other internal extensions are designed closly having in mind its board clerance constrains

 

the most popular in here is that having 4 chips of ram, whereas on eastern side of europe its the 16 chip version

 

 

I love the ideas, and I love how everyone has their own way of doing things. One of the reasons I'm getting back into retro gaming is that all my other hobies such as comics, cards, etc.... well, they get put in a closet or box and aren't seen again for ages. I have some original comic art that I love, and yet only see it 3 times a year. With games, you get to relive the joy over and over again on a monthly, weekly, or daily basis! I'm hoping I can get a small TV to sit near my computer, and then plug up a nice classic 8-bit nearby, and chuck in the odd cart to enjoy some of the games that came out at a time in my life when money was scarce, and my family couldn't buy me a system. Although, truth be told, my mother spent most of the time saying these "computer thingies were just a fad, and nobody will care about them when you grow up and get a real job". Well, now I support software for a living, and the only thing we depend more on in this world besides computers is air and food. LOL

 

Anyway, I'm thinking about testing out the bug on an emulator, but the 800xl is likely going to be my choice. Mainly because the XEGS is kinda expensive comparitively, and also because if I ever get really crazy I'm sure I'll get one anyway. I've heard more than once that when the bug bites, it bites hard and you want all the systems you can find.

 

However, I'm also thinking about getting a C64 just so I can get a few games on both systems. I like the idea of not having to have a floppy, but does anyone know if all the images for games are out there on the net somewhere? If so, I may just go that route rather than hunt down an old floppy and a bunch of games.

[+wood_jl]

Anyway, I'm thinking about testing out the bug on an emulator, but the 800xl is likely going to be my choice. Mainly because the XEGS is kinda expensive comparitively, and also because if I ever get really crazy I'm sure I'll get one anyway. I've heard more than once that when the bug bites, it bites hard and you want all the systems you can find.

800XL or 130XE would be fine. I got "back into" the Atari-8 a couple years ago; I was a longtime user years ago, then started playing with emulators and really wanted real hardware again. The games on the emulator never look or play exactly right, and I want real Atari joysticks.

 

Although I have owned (at one time) every model of the 8-bit Atari (and kind of want to again), I decided to "start" with the 130XE. The 130XE (like the original beige 800) has the capability of "S-video" output, and has BASIC Rev. C built in. I thought these would be more important to me than they turned out to be. The 800XL has just regular composite and "buggy" BASIC rev. B built in. I then got some 800XLs and remembered how - despite these shortcomings - I much prefer the XL over the XE. For one thing, the keyboard of the XL is much more comfortable (and durable) and the case is much more substantial. The S-video really isn't that big of a deal, and I find the regular composite output of the 800XL to be plenty fine. Some games depended upon artifacting for color (Choplifter, for example) and don't look right over S-video anyway). The bug in BASIC rev. B is fairly small, and if you look it up, you can work around it reasonably easy. You can also get a rev. C cartridge. My 800XLs (all 3) are socketed (suprisingly, because not all are) and I ordered a rev. C ROM chip and replaced it on one; the other to follow.

 

The 128K of the 130XE used to be a bigger deal in 1985, when RAMdisc was more important. Today, I use SIO2PC in the USB edition, and it just seems fast enough and perhaps for my simple purposes, RAMdisk is not necessary. You can also upgrade the 800XL to 256K, but to be honest, 64K does pretty much everything I want to do - games, farting around with BASIC, etc. If you do get a 130XE, there are some demos that can utilize the 320K upgrade (where/how to get 320K is another story as I don't even know, unless you can do it yourself), but I think they are mostly European and won't run on NTSC machines, anyway. (Someone else should chime in on this). There are also some later cartridge dumps to disc image that - owing to the fact that they were later, larger XEGS cartridges - require 320K to play. However, they are relatively few and far-between; most cames play with 64K. So unless you're hellbent on a RAMdisk, I don't see wasting the money on 256K 800XL as all that beneficial, although it is merely my opinion and others may disagree. Going to the full-blown route of 320K could net you some functionality, but I think it is complicated and difficult to upgrade 800XL past 256K, and as previously mentioned, the rewards are small. Bottom line? I use 64K 800XL although I have 2 130XEs in their boxes.

 

The XEGS is neat, but ultimately takes up too much space for me. Yes, I still want one, and I will get one eventually, but I will never use it as my "main" machine.

 

The SD card storage solutions are very cool, but ultimately way too expensive for starting out. Go with SIO2PC from Atarimax, and make sure to get the USB version. You'll likely also need an SIO cable for connecting it to the Atari. The SIO2PC is an amazing product; I ordered another as a spare. Besides, when you download a disk image (.ATR) file on your PC, you can "mount" it immediately with a mouse click using APE software. With those others, you'll have to copy them to SD card, etc. Those others are cool if you want to be untethered from the PC. However, I couldn't give away my 8-9 year old laptop, so it simply became an Atari peripheral combined with SIO2PC USB, and it's very easy to use. No matter what you eventually end up with as storage, you'll need SIO2PC so why not start with it since it's cheap, anyway?

I think if you mess with "real" floppy drives, you'll likely become exasperated with the unreliability of the old, worn units and the old, worn media. It's awesome you don't have to nowdays.

 

However, I'm also thinking about getting a C64 just so I can get a few games on both systems. I like the idea of not having to have a floppy, but does anyone know if all the images for games are out there on the net somewhere? If so, I may just go that route rather than hunt down an old floppy and a bunch of games.

I understand this completely, as I just did the same! However, it wasn't cheap! Many of the Commodore 64 games "reprogrammed" the 1541 floppy drive, and in order to play them (100% compatibility) you must emulate the drive as well. Enter the 1541 Ultimate - an incredible C64 device that does exactly that. I haven't had it for long; it's a cartridge that also plugs into the floppy port on the C64, and it loads disc images (.D64 files) from SD card. Trouble is, it's NOT cheap at around $100 Euros, add shipping. Mine was like $144 U.S. total. Plus the C64 from Ebay. There are other C64 storage solutions, some similar to SIO2PC on the Atari. However, I don't know the degrees of compatibility (or lack thereof) with which games, so I just went for the big-boy. The SIO2PC on the Atari will handle all games, however. I'd start with the Atari, as you can Ebay an 800XL and get SIO2PC USB - all for probably $100 or so total, compared to what I've sunk into C64 and 1541 Ultimate. However, if you're "hardcore" 8-bit, then I highly recommend the 1541 Ultimate; I never thought I'd have so much fun with a Commodore 64, as I am a long-time Atari 800 user!

 

Edit: If you just want to play cartridges, just get 800XL and some cartridges, and a (regular) composite monitor cable. All available on Ebay. If you are willing to put the time in to learn to use the SIO2PC, you'll soon find you can play a ton of games for free, compared to buying expensive cartridges. However, I understand wanting to collect the cartridges as well, and there's nothing easier than slapping in a cartridge!

Edited June 5, 2009 by wood_jl

[ClausB]

...but the 800xl is likely going to be my choice.

"Affirmative, Master!"

However, I'm also thinking about getting a C64...

"Analysis indicates Atari superior, Master."

[+therealbountybob]

Well I think you have to do some modding/upscaling to get any classic computer up to SVGA - that being said...

 

sounds like what you want is an 800XL. Plays majority of games, and the few that require more than 64K on board you can easily upgrade it if you have some soldering skills... or pick up an upgrade kit from Best or B&C.

 

800 XL also will have BASIC built in - my ram upgraded 600 XL was what I relearned BASIC on - great system and setup.

 

I recommend *against* the XEs if only because they've been known to crap out keyboard-wise... rather easily too. 800XL is much more sturdy and easier to the beginner. Hope this helps!

I've done a lot of basic programming over the last 25 years, (just finishing writing a new game) and would heartily recommend the 130XE (I had to have the keyboard repaired once under warranty, known fault) but apart from that it's still going strong. The main benefit is the use of the RAM disk to allow you to quickly save and 'list' out and 'enter' in bits of programs etc. I really like the standard keyboard

[whovian]

...but the 800xl is likely going to be my choice.

"Affirmative, Master!"

However, I'm also thinking about getting a C64...

"Analysis indicates Atari superior, Master."

 

Good dog, K-9.