Walter_J-64 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Can the 7800 do 3D style games? or is the hardware of the 7800 just limited to 2D games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 If you're talking 3-D in general, Pole Position 2, Klax and Fatal run gotcha covered there.... If you're talking a Doom-esq type game. That's an interesting question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariKen64 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 If you're talking 3-D in general, Pole Position 2, Klax and Fatal run gotcha covered there.... If you're talking a Doom-esq type game. That's an interesting question... wouldnt those games still be 2d? i mean you can go left/right and forward but not left/rigth up and down forwards and backwards no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobf Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Xybots would have been nice... a great game in the arcade (not played it on the Lynx) Would that have been possible?? Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari 7800.com Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 ...Desert Falcon?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Can the 7800 do 3D style games? or is the hardware of the 7800 just limited to 2D games? If games like Tunnel Runner could be done for the 2600, then something better could be done for the 7800. There are no true 3D games for the 7800. But I think Ballblazer gives a taste of what could have be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Can the 7800 do 3D style games? or is the hardware of the 7800 just limited to 2D games? If games like Tunnel Runner could be done for the 2600, then something better could be done for the 7800. There are no true 3D games for the 7800. But I think Ballblazer gives a taste of what could have be done. Ohh yeah.. Ballblazer. Perfect example. Go d'backs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 the 7800 can certainly do what is known as "psuedo" 3D; Scaling 2D sprites, like the games mentioned above: Ballblazer, Pole Position, Klax and Fatal Run. But, don't forget Motorpycho too! that game rocks! All the reviews I read for it said it sucked because of the control, but what i believe those reviewers failed to realize is that if you change the right difficulty switch, the control is totally customizable; you can select a level from like 1-24 for how loose or tight the steering is (responsive) as well gearing too. just find the adjustment tha works best for you and the game controls perfectly! great graphics too! Also, rescue on fractalus was supposed to be made for it, which would have been better than the 5200/8-bit version...just like Ballblazer is better graphics on the7800 than the 5200/8-bit. I would imagine that it could also have done vector/polygon type graphics too, similiar to games like Battlezone or Mercenary on the 8-bit Atari's and that 5200 proto battlezone available on the 5200 multicart or emulators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 the 7800 can certainly do what is known as "psuedo" 3D; Scaling 2D sprites, like the games mentioned above: Ballblazer, Pole Position, Klax and Fatal Run. But, don't forget Motorpycho too! that game rocks! All the reviews I read for it said it sucked because of the control, but what i believe those reviewers failed to realize is that if you change the right difficulty switch, the control is totally customizable; you can select a level from like 1-24 for how loose or tight the steering is (responsive) as well gearing too. just find the adjustment tha works best for you and the game controls perfectly! great graphics too! Also, rescue on fractalus was supposed to be made for it, which would have been better than the 5200/8-bit version...just like Ballblazer is better graphics on the7800 than the 5200/8-bit. I would imagine that it could also have done vector/polygon type graphics too, similiar to games like Battlezone or Mercenary on the 8-bit Atari's and that 5200 proto battlezone available on the 5200 multicart or emulators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Z Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 You can go up and down in Doom. Not in Wolfenstein though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viso Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Someone has been working on a port of Doom for the Intellivision. Unless I'm mistaken, The Intellivision has the same CPU as the 7800 and worse graphics, so it may well be possible to get it running on the 7800. http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/doom/ 3D graphics algorithms have advanced quite a bit since the 7800 was laid to rest. I'm sure the developers for the games had a hard enough time simulating a 3D enviornment without actually rendering 3D. I haven't looked at the code, so I might be wrong, but it looked to me like Ballblazer wasn't rendering the craft by sprite. It seemed to be a vector style image to me. I'll have to go look again. I figured it did pseudo 3D and limited things to right angles and a single plane. That makes the math a lot easier. The math issue makes me impressed that Doom is even possible running on a 6502 without 3D graphics hardware (which would be wierd to have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songbird Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 According to http://intvgn.roarvgm.com/, this is a hoax (but what did you expect?). Lucien Kleijkers, a Lynx hobby developer, has been working on a Wolf 3D style raycasting engine for quite some time, and believe me (or him, actually) it's very difficult to squeeze out the performance needed. The Lynx, FWIW, has a 65c02, 64KB RAM, and a 16-bit hardware sprite chip which supports scaling and stretching. What are the specs for the 7800? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 According to http://intvgn.roarvgm.com/, this is a hoax (but what did you expect?). Lucien Kleijkers, a Lynx hobby developer, has been working on a Wolf 3D style raycasting engine for quite some time, and believe me (or him, actually) it's very difficult to squeeze out the performance needed. The Lynx, FWIW, has a 65c02, 64KB RAM, and a 16-bit hardware sprite chip which supports scaling and stretching. What are the specs for the 7800? The page looked like a hoax to me, although I never downloaded the rom and tried it. Even if it wasn't a hoax, the color scheme makes it look downright unplayable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripto Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 FYI- Doom is not a true 3d engine either in that there can be no object which you can walk both below and above of (i.e. a bridge for instance). I bet you anything that John Carmack could get a very low polygon count, true 3D engine running on the 7800, if you gave him 2 years and several million dollars. I can see it now- New for the Atari 7800 ProSystem -"Cube and Triangle-Sinister Shapes" An arcade-action, geometric rampage! Cube and Triangle puts you in control of your choice of either a true, six-sided cube or a flat, three-point triangle. A realtime, true 3D engine puts you right in the action as simple shapes zoom by at an awesome rate of up to 3 frames per second! Only $1799.99 per copy! So start nagging your Mom for a copy RIGHT NOW!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witchfynde Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Can the 7800 do 3D style games? or is the hardware of the 7800 just limited to 2D games? If games like Tunnel Runner could be done for the 2600, then something better could be done for the 7800. Well, Tunnel Runner was a "RAM Plus" game, so it wasn't exactly your typical 2600 game running on only 4K. But yeah, it could've been done on the 7800. In Reply to Others Yeah, Desert Falcon was three-quarters 3D, and Ballblazer was 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic George 2K3 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Desert Falcon isn't a "3D game", but rather an isometric diagonally-scrolling game that gives the illusion of three dimensions from an angled top-down perspective -- as were Zaxxon, Congo Bongo, Marble Madness, and Paperboy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_Larson Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I haven't programmed for the 7800, I have programmed for the 2600 and I've also done some rudimentary 3-d stuff on the PC without the aid of any 3-d libraries. There's two problems with doing 3-d graphics on the 7800 that I can see. First, the 6502 processor doesn't support multiplication or division, and second, it doesn't support floating point (i.e. non-whole-number) numbers either. Both of these things are more-or-less prerequisites to doing 3-d graphics. However, floating point numbers can probably be simulated in software, and it's possible to do multiplication and division in software too using logarithmic lookup tables (like a slide-rule sort of), although that has it's limits. It's probably possible, but it would almost certainly be limited to just simple polygon graphics or wire-frame...think 'old-school microsoft flight simulator'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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