Buyatari Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 He switches moods every other day. His response here, is in hopes that a cart will bring more than 10k. Then his Atlantis II could do the same. Yaaaaaaawnnn. HHW Yeah I know but you can't just hype up what little market is already here. For that to happen there would need to be some new blood into the hobby. Imagine 5 guys that could give Wonder a run for the money all starting to collect Atari tomorrow. However the reality is the Atari market has been treading water for the last couple of years and with so many people out of work or hard up for cash I think a lot of guys are just taking a break right now. It seems that most new blood in videogame collecting is Nintendo-centric these days and for every new guy collecting Atari you have 2 diehard Atari collectors that take a break. Not trying to be a downer that it is just how I see it. Slow steady gains are best anyway and the best of the best is doing just that if you look at 5 or 10 or 15 years back. Anything with a slow steady climb will be less likely to plummet than an overnight sensation. I would imagine that Atlantis II will increase in price gradually over time better than most traditional conservative investments if the track record over the past 10-15 years is any indication. If that is what he is worried about he can put the issue to rest and just sit back and relax. Atlantis II will do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Phantom has mentioned that this game was actually a release which to me actually makes the game less desirable. Has that been proven though? The cart does not really have a released look to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerwannabee Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I have bid, negotiated and acquired all of the R10, one-of-a-kind items I have had an interest in. I know the prices on these type of items. I know the most that people are willing to pay for way rarer items than Gamma Attack. Sure, one-of-a-kind R10 items will fetch a nice amount of change but with video games, it is a bit different. If a one-of-a-kind ROM is released and reproduced, the price of the original goes down tremendously. How do I know that, I have purchased one-of-a-kind items that had ROMS released and unreleased and, believe me, unreleased R10 items are a lot more expensive. And, many times, I have competed against other collectors and the results are ALWAYS the same....I ALWAYS pay a lot more for unreleased R10 games than released.....I just know, this has been time tested and I know the price limits with these types of items. Another thing, if I do not compete against the other collectors for certain items, I can guarantee you that the prices of many of the items would be lower. It is funny because when I've had many instances where I have offered an amount of $$$ and they say "no", I will let it ride; well, 99% of the time, the final price of the item ended up being a lot lower than what I had offered. In addition, I have learned to be patient and boy has it pay dividends in my collecting. Phantom has mentioned that this game was actually a release which to me actually makes the game less desirable. Why, because that means it is not TECHNICALLY a proto and based on my experience in buying games, I have paid a lot more for protos than R10 releases, even when the R10 was one-of-a-kind (on average). Don't get me wrong though, I would love to get Gamma Attack, and "Red Crossing" (forgot the exact name) and Birthday Mania and the Monogrammed Space Chase and the PG-1, etc.... Yep, patience is a key. Sellers for the most part are not patient. Definitely looks like you are becoming more frugal. There is one good thing, the more frugal you become, the higher the chance that someone besides you will win auctions that you bid on. Maybe it's a good thing you are starting to become more patient. My personal opinion is that a hobby does not do well when one person totally dominates it day in, and day out. Spreading of the wealth is always good for a hobbies success, and if you truly are scaling back, then you will finally be losing more auctions. Making it so people can have a rare that you do not have. Also, I noticed some people saying that the hobby is losing more collectors than incoming collectors. I believe that's going to change pretty soon. Let's be honest this decade has totally blown for the Atari 2600 in general. When the decade started the Atari 2600 was the primary system people collected for. There was no competition. The NES had a following but nowhere near what the Atari 2600 was. Now, the decade is almost out and the NES is far and away the most collected system. But I see the next decade as a different decade. A dawn of a new generation of collectors is slowly approaching. Everything is cyclical. Nothing can remain in a downturn forever. Historically the Atari 2600 is too significant for it to remain on a downturn. People forget that the Atari 2600 was the primary system in America from 1977 to 1985. No matter what people say, this is a fact that can't be ignored. A whole generation of kids grew up with just this system. To believe that this generation of kids will continue to ignore a system that they grew up with for one that has no relevance on their childhood seems hard to believe. I believe a new age of nostalgia will hit this system during the next decade, and many will be surprised at how strong it will come. Of course I could be wrong, so we will just have to wait and see. Whatever happens, it should be interesting none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) Phantom has mentioned that this game was actually a release which to me actually makes the game less desirable. Has that been proven though? The cart does not really have a released look to it. Yes it did in fact. The programmers Son spoke to this effect when I was talking back and forth with him about Gamma Attack when he finally gave Ant & I the go ahead to make 100 copies of it as he was originally not too keen on the idea. Edited July 19, 2009 by Shawn Sr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Phantom has mentioned that this game was actually a release which to me actually makes the game less desirable. Has that been proven though? The cart does not really have a released look to it. Yes it did in fact. The programmers Son spoke to this effect when I was talking back and forth with him about Gamma Attack when he finally gave Ant & I the go ahead to make 100 copies of it as he was originally not too keen on the idea. Ah, so is it possible there are more out there or did he confirm this is the only one? That could probably effect the value as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wonder007 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) I have bid, negotiated and acquired all of the R10, one-of-a-kind items I have had an interest in. I know the prices on these type of items. I know the most that people are willing to pay for way rarer items than Gamma Attack. Sure, one-of-a-kind R10 items will fetch a nice amount of change but with video games, it is a bit different. If a one-of-a-kind ROM is released and reproduced, the price of the original goes down tremendously. How do I know that, I have purchased one-of-a-kind items that had ROMS released and unreleased and, believe me, unreleased R10 items are a lot more expensive. And, many times, I have competed against other collectors and the results are ALWAYS the same....I ALWAYS pay a lot more for unreleased R10 games than released.....I just know, this has been time tested and I know the price limits with these types of items. Another thing, if I do not compete against the other collectors for certain items, I can guarantee you that the prices of many of the items would be lower. It is funny because when I've had many instances where I have offered an amount of $$$ and they say "no", I will let it ride; well, 99% of the time, the final price of the item ended up being a lot lower than what I had offered. In addition, I have learned to be patient and boy has it pay dividends in my collecting. Phantom has mentioned that this game was actually a release which to me actually makes the game less desirable. Why, because that means it is not TECHNICALLY a proto and based on my experience in buying games, I have paid a lot more for protos than R10 releases, even when the R10 was one-of-a-kind (on average). Don't get me wrong though, I would love to get Gamma Attack, and "Red Crossing" (forgot the exact name) and Birthday Mania and the Monogrammed Space Chase and the PG-1, etc.... Yep, patience is a key. Sellers for the most part are not patient. Definitely looks like you are becoming more frugal. There is one good thing, the more frugal you become, the higher the chance that someone besides you will win auctions that you bid on. Maybe it's a good thing you are starting to become more patient. My personal opinion is that a hobby does not do well when one person totally dominates it day in, and day out. Spreading of the wealth is always good for a hobbies success, and if you truly are scaling back, then you will finally be losing more auctions. Making it so people can have a rare that you do not have. Also, I noticed some people saying that the hobby is losing more collectors than incoming collectors. I believe that's going to change pretty soon. Let's be honest this decade has totally blown for the Atari 2600 in general. When the decade started the Atari 2600 was the primary system people collected for. There was no competition. The NES had a following but nowhere near what the Atari 2600 was. Now, the decade is almost out and the NES is far and away the most collected system. But I see the next decade as a different decade. A dawn of a new generation of collectors is slowly approaching. Everything is cyclical. Nothing can remain in a downturn forever. Historically the Atari 2600 is too significant for it to remain on a downturn. People forget that the Atari 2600 was the primary system in America from 1977 to 1985. No matter what people say, this is a fact that can't be ignored. A whole generation of kids grew up with just this system. To believe that this generation of kids will continue to ignore a system that they grew up with for one that has no relevance on their childhood seems hard to believe. I believe a new age of nostalgia will hit this system during the next decade, and many will be surprised at how strong it will come. Of course I could be wrong, so we will just have to wait and see. Whatever happens, it should be interesting none the less. It's not that I am frugal, it is that I am being smarter and more patient on acquiring items. The fact of the matter is that when I negotiate with somebody privately, I always pay more for it than if I got it from Ebay. In fact, I rather acquire items through ebay than privately. How do I know that I pay more privately, I have seen auctions finish on items I have acquired privately and 100% of the time, I ended up paying more. However, if it is an item that I really want, I aggressively pursue it. In terms of our hobby, it is like a rollercoaster. Right now it is down but it will go up, especially when the economy gets better. Edited July 19, 2009 by Wonder007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 It's not that I am frugal, it is that I am being smarter and more patient on acquiring items. The fact of the matter is that when I negotiate with somebody privately, I always pay more for it than if I got it from Ebay. In fact, I rather acquire items through ebay than privately. How do I know that I pay more privately, I have seen auctions finish on items I have acquired privately and 100% of the time, I ended up paying more. However, if it is an item that I really want, I aggressively pursue it. In terms of our hobby, it is like a rollercoaster. Right now it is down but it will go up, especially when the economy gets better. Cheapskate !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wonder007 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 It's not that I am frugal, it is that I am being smarter and more patient on acquiring items. The fact of the matter is that when I negotiate with somebody privately, I always pay more for it than if I got it from Ebay. In fact, I rather acquire items through ebay than privately. How do I know that I pay more privately, I have seen auctions finish on items I have acquired privately and 100% of the time, I ended up paying more. However, if it is an item that I really want, I aggressively pursue it. In terms of our hobby, it is like a rollercoaster. Right now it is down but it will go up, especially when the economy gets better. Cheapskate !! LOL!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 There is one good thing, the more frugal you become, the higher the chance that someone besides you will win auctions that you bid on. I know you are going to fall off your seat when I say this, but Wonder007 is not going to be a very big force in Atari 2600 collecting for much longer. The reason for this is that he is running out of stuff to collect. His NTSC collection is 99% complete, so he is only going to appear every now and again to pick up some one-off item or obscure item liek gamma attack, or some memorabillia. For the values of NTSC games to be kept high, there is going to have to be another Wonder007 come onto the scene, otherwise prices for rare games will go down from where they have been over the last few years, because Wonder007 has kept them "artificially" high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerwannabee Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) There is one good thing, the more frugal you become, the higher the chance that someone besides you will win auctions that you bid on. I know you are going to fall off your seat when I say this, but Wonder007 is not going to be a very big force in Atari 2600 collecting for much longer. The reason for this is that he is running out of stuff to collect. His NTSC collection is 99% complete, so he is only going to appear every now and again to pick up some one-off item or obscure item liek gamma attack, or some memorabillia. For the values of NTSC games to be kept high, there is going to have to be another Wonder007 come onto the scene, otherwise prices for rare games will go down from where they have been over the last few years, because Wonder007 has kept them "artificially" high Yeah, you're right about this one, there really hasn't been any major players in the hobby in the past 3 years. Decypher came into the hobby for a short period and then stopped real quick. There is also Troy's games, but he seems to only want proto's. It's actually kind of surprising that not a single person has entered the scene to stay in the past 3 years. Seems like the hobby is due for another big collector to come forward. Edited July 19, 2009 by homerwannabee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerwannabee Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Looks like Phantom ended the auction early. By the way, has anyone noticed that no matter how outrageous the price of a super rare game, that they are ALWAYS ended early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udisi Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 my guess is wonder and phantom finally agreed on a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 my guess is wonder and phantom finally agreed on a price. I know he had a legit offer of around $8k but the dude (not wonder007) wanted a payment plan which was not suitable for phantom. While $8k is over top dollar, on a payment plan it might as well have been a million dollars. When you don't get paid large the smaller payments seem like chicken feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 my guess is wonder and phantom finally agreed on a price. I know he had a legit offer of around $8k but the dude (not wonder007) wanted a payment plan which was not suitable for phantom. While $8k is over top dollar, on a payment plan it might as well have been a million dollars. When you don't get paid large the smaller payments seem like chicken feed. I'd have jumped all over that deal. So sits on it for a year with no takers or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. I'd be happy with 8k in payments on that cart. However, I'm not a fan of that one so others may have different opinions. Where are these big money buyers coming from? Dare I say................... NEW BLOOD !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Dare I say................... NEW BLOOD !!! non-internet blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. would have been more like 2 years. I'd never do it myself. I'd rather have $5k right away then $8k over 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cvga Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. would have been more like 2 years. I'd never do it myself. I'd rather have $5k right away then $8k over 2 years. The seller shouldn't have to offer finance plans. The buyer could get a loan if he really wanted the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. would have been more like 2 years. I'd never do it myself. I'd rather have $5k right away then $8k over 2 years. Ok then sell for 5k but he didn't. Waiting for 8k he will wait 2 years anyway I would think. Who is paying 5k anyway? Wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. would have been more like 2 years. I'd never do it myself. I'd rather have $5k right away then $8k over 2 years. Ok then sell for 5k but he didn't. Waiting for 8k he will wait 2 years anyway I would think. Who is paying 5k anyway? Wonder? No, I was just throwing that out as a number meaning $5k in hand would be alot easier to take than $8k over time. $5k is "X" in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 or he sells it now and gets paid over a year. would have been more like 2 years. I'd never do it myself. I'd rather have $5k right away then $8k over 2 years. Ok then sell for 5k but he didn't. Waiting for 8k he will wait 2 years anyway I would think. Who is paying 5k anyway? Wonder? No, I was just throwing that out as a number meaning $5k in hand would be alot easier to take than $8k over time. $5k is "X" in this situation. Well the whole point is if someone offered me 8k over 2 years on THAT cart I'd take it in a heartbeat and if he didn't because the cash upfront deal was better then he should have taken that instead. If I offered you $25 a month for 2 years on an Atari 2600 with a busted controller and a combat cart would you take it? I'd pay exact shipping at the end, too If you didn't take it because someone else offered you $250 upfront ok but after 2 offers like that why the heck would you still have the thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFK Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Would you really take a two year payment plan from someone from the internet? Seriously, even someone you know, two years? What are they planning to do with the cart? Repro the hell out of it to try and make the money? If that doesn't work then what? What about when the payments stop coming after about four months? Seriously, would anyone here take a two year payment plan on a rare item they own? Edited July 27, 2009 by HFK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Would you really take a two year payment plan from someone from the internet? Seriously, even someone you know, two years? What are they planning to do with the cart? Repro the hell out of it to try and make the money? If that doesn't work then what? What about when the payments stop coming after about four months? Seriously, would anyone here take a two year payment plan on a rare item they own? I would, but I would hold onto the cart as security for the 2 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Would you really take a two year payment plan from someone from the internet? Seriously, even someone you know, two years? What are they planning to do with the cart? Repro the hell out of it to try and make the money? If that doesn't work then what? What about when the payments stop coming after about four months? Seriously, would anyone here take a two year payment plan on a rare item they own? With this cart I'd consider any money coming in free money. You would need to have very strict rules and dates upfront. Offer the terms with the plan and if both agree then off you go. But in general for just about any item yes I'd take 8k over 2 years before I'd take 5k upfront. It isn't like you can get a return like that from your bank ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyatari Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Would you really take a two year payment plan from someone from the internet? Seriously, even someone you know, two years? What are they planning to do with the cart? Repro the hell out of it to try and make the money? If that doesn't work then what? What about when the payments stop coming after about four months? Seriously, would anyone here take a two year payment plan on a rare item they own? I would, but I would hold onto the cart as security for the 2 years With any deal like this is best to ship after the last payment is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Would you really take a two year payment plan from someone from the internet? Seriously, even someone you know, two years? What are they planning to do with the cart? Repro the hell out of it to try and make the money? If that doesn't work then what? What about when the payments stop coming after about four months? Seriously, would anyone here take a two year payment plan on a rare item they own? I would, but I would hold onto the cart as security for the 2 years With any deal like this is best to ship after the last payment is made. There would be no point if the guy lives 10 miles from your house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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