xxl Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 http://atari.pl/galaga_test.rar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 http://atari.pl/galaga_test.rar Oooh... isn't this originally a PET game by the way? (Speaking of which, there's a cracking version of Space Invaders in ASCII on the PET... lets see if mentioning it gives xxl any ideas! =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 http://atari.pl/galaga_test.rar Oooh... isn't this originally a PET game by the way? (Speaking of which, there's a cracking version of Space Invaders in ASCII on the PET... lets see if mentioning it gives xxl any ideas! =-) Are you trying to say that Galaga and Space Invaders are originated as PET games or that PET is one of the platforms they appeared on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I guess Jason pointed xxl into the direction that on the PET there might be some classics, too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I was just wondering why this was ported in high resolution, this could be done in a lower resolution but with colour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Should be in 'Classic Gaming General', please. Or does it compare both? Bit misleading title. Edited September 23, 2009 by frenchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Cool! Although I feel it would look better in Antic 4 - same resolution as the C64 version, with colors sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 xxl...question...why not using charmode? or does the c64 version use bitmap mode? I played it on commie but not on pet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Oooh... isn't this originally a PET game by the way? (Speaking of which, there's a cracking version of Space Invaders in ASCII on the PET... lets see if mentioning it gives xxl any ideas! =-) Are you trying to say that Galaga and Space Invaders are originated as PET games or that PET is one of the platforms they appeared on? i've always assumed that this version of Galaga originated on the PET and was ported to the C64 - the version of Space Invaders i was referring to was a PET implementation (not where Space Invaders itself originated) that plays rather well and i was trying to give xxl ideas. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Should be in 'Classic Gaming General', please. Or does it compare both? Bit misleading title. It's a version of Galaga on the C64 that xxl is currently porting to the A8, this is the best place for the post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 For the love of god don't start with that atrocious "port" of Galaga from '82 or so.. Why on earth not start with the 7800 version which is a pretty damn good version (not quite PCE Galaga'88, but very good), source code and all ? Okay, so level 10 onwards is a bit weak, but it's jolly good really and I imagine it's short comings are easily fixed, and it's only a 32K cart to start with.. The thought of another "commodore in atari clothing" game just fills me with woe and makes me sad ;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 For the love of god don't start with that atrocious "port" of Galaga from '82 or so.. Why on earth not start with the 7800 version which is a pretty damn good version (not quite PCE Galaga'88, but very good), source code and all ? Okay, so level 10 onwards is a bit weak, but it's jolly good really and I imagine it's short comings are easily fixed, and it's only a 32K cart to start with.. The thought of another "commodore in atari clothing" game just fills me with woe and makes me sad ;( If the sprite hardware of the C64 is problematic for A8 ports then porting certain 7800 titles would cause major fits. Maria is pretty much a hardware sprite engine with token playfield support. So much so that it seems playfields are used to enhance sprites on the 7800 rather than the other way around. I bet games like Galaga and Food Fight are pretty much swinging tons of hardware drawn sprites around with little regard for the problems of doing things either in charmode or linear bitmap mode. Games of that sort are pretty much in the 7800's sweet spot and probably wouldn't directly port well even to the mighty C64 . Yes, yes, I know other approaches are perfectly viable on the Commie...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) If the sprite hardware of the C64 is problematic for A8 ports then porting certain 7800 titles would cause major fits. True, but this isn't one of the times when a seizure is on the horizon.. Maria is pretty much a hardware sprite engine with token playfield support. So much so that it seems playfields are used to enhance sprites on the 7800 rather than the other way around. I bet games like Galaga and Food Fight are pretty much swinging tons of hardware drawn sprites around with little regard for the problems of doing things either in charmode or linear bitmap mode. Games of that sort are pretty much in the 7800's sweet spot and probably wouldn't directly port well even to the mighty C64 . Yes, yes, I know other approaches are perfectly viable on the Commie...... I know, I've done some 7800 programming before thanks And I think the parallels between the way Maria draws stuff and how it could be blitted manually to the A8 screen are incredibly striking, especially in this particular context given the limited amount of objects, and their particular properties and how they're aligned on screen.. Either way, I obviously didn't mean write a Maria emulator.. I meant take the logic from it and write a sensible display system to sit on top, one that meets the requirements of the game, not a full on sprite system.. There's a lot of things that can be short cutted in Galaga that the A8 can do very well, like the swelling of the swarm which can be done very easily without the need for mega-sprite-central, plus most of the sprites when they're in the swarm don't need any masking what so ever, so I think you could almost one-for-one take Galagas Maria display list generation (and bar the different palettes and the fact you'd be needing pre-shifted rows) blit the thing on an A8 fairly easily.. Go look at it, and think how you'd draw it.. It's a no brainer really.. Colourwise it's not exactly stretching the 7800 at all, and it'd easily fit Mode-4, just do the stars using the missiles missiles being scrolled down (well redrawing the stars a tthe right y-pos) split horizontally every 8 lines or so (can't be more than ~64 on screen stars on 7800 I guess, so maybe every 16 lines) allowing horizontal repositioning to space them over the screen and bump up the illusion of more than actually 4 star columns, PF3 sharing the light cyan of the alien pallette and the few aliens that need to move over the swarm are easily handled, no backgrounds to restore just zero the character cell underneath the object, there's not really much there and feck-all masking required (edit: actually just checked the swarm spacing and okay, every other alien horizontally would need to be or'd on at certain times).. Maybe Super-IRG the graphics as long as there's no visible flicker with the pallette choices, hard I imagine given the suitably saturated colour choice of Galaga, though maybe doable for some extra class to the quality of the display.. I think it'd look bloody lovely, and maybe even better than the 7800 So, looking again at 7800 you could do this easily: 3 common colours for all aliens + 1 unique one per type.. When in swarm it's unique colour comes from splits, when it's diving, it comes from an overlaid/underlaid player.. Since the frames when they're present in the swarm are so limited there's no reason not to have those as raw code sprites for maximum speed since that's where a large chunk of your drawing time is going to go.. The other sprites can be done with a generic sprite system.. You don't need a hugely complex multiplexer for the diving aliens, and not many software sprites either, after all they're jut tiny tiny little sprites Anyway, that was just the first idea i had.. I'm sure with more thinking there's ways to improve the colours beyond the 3 commons, without impacting upon other sprites moving around.. Just trying to say that I think the A8 can do something that's pretty much bang on par with the 7800 version rather than that abortion of a 64 version.. I know the A8 sucks royally on sprites, but you can get that crud required on the screen fast enough for Galaga given it doesn't really require a 'proper' sprite system.. It's funny.. In the other thread I say the A8 can't do this, can't do that, and I get shouted at 'oh yes it can!'. But when I've got my Atari hat on and say Atari can do this and can do that, I still get told it can't.. Oh the irony.. I think I just laughed up my pelvis Edited September 23, 2009 by andym00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think I just laughed up my pelvis Woah... bet that hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) A bit, but then again not half as much as comparing these 2 screen-shots. Edited September 23, 2009 by andym00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Smeghead Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yup, the 7800 version is far superior, to be sure. But for me, Galaga is one of my top three favourite games, and I would love to see an A8 version, regardless of where it began its life. I've always wondered why we never got a Galaga clone. We got enough Galaxian clones. So, keep at it, please! But do me one favour... next time, please use ZIP and not RAR to compress. I don't seem to have an easy way to uncompress a RAR file. I'm using a 30 day trial version, and I'm not keen on spending $30 to buy it. Cheers, Smeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 It's funny.. In the other thread I say the A8 can't do this, can't do that, and I get shouted at 'oh yes it can!'. But when I've got my Atari hat on and say Atari can do this and can do that, I still get told it can't.. Oh the irony.. I think I just laughed up my pelvis We A8 fans aren't a monolith. I have no problem acknowledging the A8s shortcomings. I'm just not going to cry then bow and scrape before the Altar Of C-64 because the likes of Rockford say that I should. I wasn't even saying that a good Galaga is impossible on the A8. I just have doubts about the 7800 codebase being a good starting point for one. Though I'd be delighted if you proved me wrong in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 So, keep at it, please! But do me one favour... next time, please use ZIP and not RAR to compress. I don't seem to have an easy way to uncompress a RAR file. I'm using a 30 day trial version, and I'm not keen on spending $30 to buy it. If using Windows, give Peazip or IZarc a try. Both are free and unpack many many kinds of archives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Guitarman Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 So, keep at it, please! But do me one favour... next time, please use ZIP and not RAR to compress. I don't seem to have an easy way to uncompress a RAR file. I'm using a 30 day trial version, and I'm not keen on spending $30 to buy it. If using Windows, give Peazip or IZarc a try. Both are free and unpack many many kinds of archives. Same with 7Zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 We A8 fans aren't a monolith. I have no problem acknowledging the A8s shortcomings. I'm just not going to cry then bow and scrape before the Altar Of C-64 because the likes of Rockford say that I should. I wasn't even saying that a good Galaga is impossible on the A8. I just have doubts about the 7800 codebase being a good starting point for one. Though I'd be delighted if you proved me wrong in this. Sorry, wasn't meant quite like that.. It's just I like others adore Galaga, especially Galaga'88, and I just hate to see that awful C64 version being used as a basis, especially when the A8 could really do the game justice.. And I'd love to prove you wrong, but someone else beat me to the punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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