Desoldering tools and you

[sloopy]

ok i was talking with dmlloyd on irc about deaoldering and decided instead of explaining there how i made my delsodering iron, i would make a post here so others can share in the info...

 

basically i took a radio shack desoldering tool (RS #64-2060B ) and a Desoldering Pump (RS #64-2098 ) and made my own... now yes i know you can buy something like this already made for about the same price or less then i paid, but i already had these things and made my first, years ago before the inet was so commercial... so what i did...

 

(see pic for an idea of what i did)

1) cut the tube that goes to the bulb as it will put the actuator to far to reach,

about 2" IRC, dremel or hack saw works well, but make sure you cut it at an

angle so the side next to the heating element is slightly longer.

2) put the metal collar that usually goes around the tip on the cut off tube

3) flare the tube slightly so the collar doesnt come off, and sita and an angle away from the handle/heating element

i used a pair of pliers, wasnt pretty but works.

4) install the small brass colored plug in the silver collar.

tighten it until the collar doesnt rotate around.

5) in the vaccuum tube there is a long pole on the piston, cut it off.

6) re-assemble the rest of the tube.

 

happy desoldering...

 

sloopy.

Edited December 10, 2009 by sloopy

[S1500]

Interesting. Just last wekeend, I tried to desolder some stuff off a motherboard. Nope, impossible without that suck-tool. I'm trying to get some db-9 ports off of a dead motherboard.

[shadow460]

Braid for surface mount and desoldering tool for PCB mount.

[sloopy]

here is a pic of something i recently desoldered (well the desoldering tool was still warm from doing this when the pic of it above was taken...)

 

sloopy.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Solder braid has never caused any problems for me, surprisingly. I love the stuff.

[spookt]

I use a heated desolder sucker from Maplin in the UK. RAM chips fly out of XLs with it and I haven't managed to lift a track since I got it.

[Chickybaby]

Desoldering is the one thing I really have a bad problem with when making carts. My arthritis and that stupid squeeze sucking bulb are not a very good or compatible combo.

I was actually going to post asking for ideas which would work better. If anyone has links to good tools that won't cause me agony every time I use them, I would be eternally thankful.

[Rybags]

Use a pump... I got a bulb first and just find it annoying insofar that squeezing/releasing means the tip can move.

 

Pump, no such problems - and it's less likely to get in the way. Downside of the pump though is that you then have to reload it each time.

[jaybird3rd]

I'm also looking for a good alternative to the suction bulb for small desoldering jobs. I've mostly used desoldering braid with a regular soldering iron, and it works nicely most of the time. But, it's very time-consuming, it tends to wear out soldering tips (maybe I'm pushing too hard), and if I use a lot of it, braid can get to be too expensive. Also, I've come across some cheap braid recently which apparently wasn't dipped in flux, making it almost impossible to use; I've tried to "fix" it by adding my own flux, but this quickly gets too messy. I have one of those suction pumps from Cellphone Shack but I never figured out how to use it; I should probably give it another look.

 

I am working on an interesting solution for desoldering chips (such as cartridge ROMs). It involves a U-shaped heating element which touches all the pins at once on the solder side, and a springloaded "chip gripper" which maintains upward pressure on the chip and pulls it out of the board as soon as the solder is liquid. I'm working with my father (a machinist) to design it, and when it's done, it will make it a lot easier to clean and recycle cartridge boards, or to socket the chips in machines like the 130XE and 7800.

[Tezz]

Personally I prefer to always use braid however I know that previous difficulties I've had with pumps in the past was due to using it together with a low wattage iron being too cautious about overheating. The pumps used the correct way are very effective.

 

A combination of both the pump and then braid I would say is the most advisable.

 

I am working on an interesting solution for desoldering chips (such as cartridge ROMs). It involves a U-shaped heating element which touches all the pins at once on the solder side, and a springloaded "chip gripper" which maintains upward pressure on the chip and pulls it out of the board as soon as the solder is liquid. I'm working with my father (a machinist) to design it, and when it's done, it will make it a lot easier to clean and recycle cartridge boards, or to socket the chips in machines like the 130XE and 7800.

Those type of removal tools already exist commercially. I was originally going to obtain one a few years back.

[sloopy]

Desoldering is the one thing I really have a bad problem with when making carts. My arthritis and that stupid squeeze sucking bulb are not a very good or compatible combo.

I was actually going to post asking for ideas which would work better. If anyone has links to good tools that won't cause me agony every time I use them, I would be eternally thankful.

 

a manual pump type might cause problems also, you may want to look into a desoldering station that uses a electric vacuum pump. there are many available and can be found on ebay for ~$100-200 with a temp control soldering iron...

 

sloopy.

[BigO]

Desoldering is the one thing I really have a bad problem with when making carts. My arthritis and that stupid squeeze sucking bulb are not a very good or compatible combo.

I was actually going to post asking for ideas which would work better. If anyone has links to good tools that won't cause me agony every time I use them, I would be eternally thankful.

 

I despise those squeeze bulb things. I never could get one to do much of anything. This tool works great and is cheap. http://www.mcmelectr...1-8240-/21-8240

 

It does a pretty thorough job of removing the solder. I've desoldered 40 pin chips with it and recently pulled an ISA socket from an old PC motherboard without too much trouble.

 

I've had mine for about 10 years and don't hesitate to recommend it to hobbyists. I bought one recently for a friend who's used to working with the highest quality desoldering stations (avionics) and he was impressed with how well it worked.

 

Note: As with any soldering equipment, particularly lower end stuff with less sophisticated temperature control, be careful to apply heat for as little time as necessary or you can damage the circuit board traces or the component. I've lifted a couple of lands using this on fine pitch PC motherboards which I was scrapping anyway.

Edited December 10, 2009 by BigO

[spookt]

This tool works great and is cheap. I've had one for about 10 years. I bought one recently for a friend who's used to working with the highest quality desoldering stations and he was impressed with how well it worked.

http://www.mcmelectr...1-8240-/21-8240

 

I have a UK version that looks exactly the same. If anyone in the UK is interested it's this one. It's really great.

[MEtalGuy66]

Desoldering is much more about technique and experience than it is about having some "magic" equipment..

 

The follwing are some critical factors to consider before attempting:

 

1. The right heat setting (temperature controlled equipment is a must).. Know the characteristics of the board and components you are desoldering.. some boards and/or components will take alot more heat than others.. Too much heat will delaminate pads/traces and fry components. Too little heat will not completely liquify all the solder so that it can be effectively sucked away..

 

2. Clean soldering tips.. Heat does not transfer with dirty tips.. effective use of flux can also fall into this category.

 

3. Develop a fast "method" to effectively apply the heat, and then apply suction the instant the solder has fully liquified.

[flashjazzcat]

I bought a cheap solder sucker from Maplin about six months ago. One of those plunger things where you press a button on the side to release it. I was hopeless with it at first but now the chips "fly out" as spookt said. I place the sucker on the underside of the board, directly under the pin, stick the tip of the antex iron in the crux of the join betwixt leg and board for a second or two till the solder gives and then "click". Most of the time it takes one go, sometimes two. There's occasionally one leg of an IC which is a real bitch, but patience is the key. Then I flip the board over, and using a fine tip screwdriver or craft knife, test that all the legs are loose in the holes. Those that aren't get a bit more finessing with the iron. The chip then levers out gently with no problems.

 

I've done four or five problem-free chip removals this way, from XEs and and STs. I don't use flux but I get the feeling life would be even easier if I did. Braid I never got the hang of yet.

[sloopy]

Most of the time it takes one go, sometimes two. There's occasionally one leg of an IC which is a real bitch, but patience is the key.

 

probly the ground plane, needs more heat to melt the solder cause the extra metal of the ground plane is sucking it up, on some systems there is also a supply plane and can do similar...

 

sloopy.

[candle]

re-aplying new solder to the stubborn joint helps

if i don't care for a board, i put it on heat plate set to 350C degrees, it usually lets me to remove everything from the top at once

bad thing is if i forget about it in the process - what will remain me is lots of smoke, and every plastic connector melted down

you also need to work fast on such setup

if i do care - i use the technique described with vbxe2 thread, and if the chip is really stuck i'll help myself with hot-air rework station

as for smd chips its always hot-air or heat-plate, for bga is combination of those two

i have also desoldering station, but i used it maybe twice since i've bought it - maybe this will change when i replace 60W transformer in my station with 150W one - heating element in desoldering gun requires it

the worse case is LEAD-FREE solder, but this is another story

 

ps. Chicky: this is not russian, what is it?

[pepax]

ps. Chicky: this is not russian, what is it?

Looks like .ua to me.

[Chickybaby]

Thanks BigO, will check it out.

It's not that I don't know the technique for desoldering, I just get shooting needle like spasms of pain going up my arm and cramps in my hand from either holding down a button repeatedly, or squeezing the stupid bulb thing, even unfortunately playing vid games or typing a lot. It's about unbearable if I have to do 30 or so carts and I don't always have painkillers to take or the time to do it slowly. I found a homeopathinc gel (believe it or not) that helps a lil with arthritis and pain (even in my knee, lower back, neck and shoulders) - Traumeel Gel, but it's expensive and if I continue to work, I'll pay later anyway. It's something I know will get worse over time and I have to live with, just trying to make it as simple and pain free as possible so I can take care of and focus on my daughter.

Unfortunately $100-200 is nowhere near what I can afford atm but it'll be something else to add to the wishlist as it would be nice.

I know there's no miracle answer other then having someone else do it, lol, but new boards aren't always available or affordable and I have a big project coming up.

Thanks so very much for this thread though again and I truly appreciate everyone's advice and opinion.

 

ps - Yep, Ukrainian.

[candle]

Chicky, try with hot air gun as Aoyue 8032 or similiar (should be around $40 at most), and i got that poem translated (it happends my friend's wife is ukrainian )

[BigO]

I just get shooting needle like spasms of pain going up my arm and cramps in my hand [...] even unfortunately playing vid games

So, why have we not set about creating a controller that is more arthritic friendly?

 

Just a stream-of-consciousness here:

 

How is your ability to repeatedly move larger joints like wrists? Are you good with a joystick? It wouldn't be a major engineering feat to build a setup with two joysticks of arcade quality (thinking of the 2600 here, at least initially). One joystick would act like the normal joystick controller. The other joystick would act as your fire button(s). It would probably end up as a laptop or table mounted device.

 

On a system like the 2600 with only one fire button, any one of the 4 joystick positions (or 8 depending on the chosen stick) could perform the same "fire" function. This would let you use larger muscles/joints to do the firing by moving the stick in any direction. With the increased mass and reduced physical response time of the joystick, you could lose some of that "twitch" capability inherent in a lightweight pushbutton. But, you could jiggle, waggle, push, pull, jerk, bump, etc. the stick in a multitude of ways to produce a rapid succession of firing signals without repeating the same exact motion time after time. Not really sure how much of a challenge it would be to one's coordination to actuate two joysticks simultaneously with different methods. I guess you'd have to try something like that to see if it's to your liking.

 

I suppose the sticks wouldn't have to be parallel to one another. One could be vertical as on a normal arcade panel and the other could project out the side of the control panel so the actions used on the two would be different and help your brain keep from getting the sticks confused while you play.

 

Just a germ of an idea. I suspect something like this may have already been done for people with limited dexterity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chickybaby]

Interesting BigO.

 

Even hacking something like a genesis controller that has a ton of buttons to have more then one fire button would be awesome to help with button mashing games like one of my very favs - Galaga. The directional part isn't as much of a prob for me at least and while it wouldn't solve the problem completely it would be easier at least.

 

I still have yet to find a good voice typing program that works on websites as well.

 

Unfortunately we're all getting older whether we like it or not, lol, just some of us are feeling it sooner then others.

[MEtalGuy66]

I bought a cheap solder sucker from Maplin about six months ago. One of those plunger things where you press a button on the side to release it. I was hopeless with it at first but now the chips "fly out" as spookt said. I place the sucker on the underside of the board, directly under the pin, stick the tip of the antex iron in the crux of the join betwixt leg and board for a second or two till the solder gives and then "click". Most of the time it takes one go, sometimes two. There's occasionally one leg of an IC which is a real bitch, but patience is the key. Then I flip the board over, and using a fine tip screwdriver or craft knife, test that all the legs are loose in the holes. Those that aren't get a bit more finessing with the iron. The chip then levers out gently with no problems.

 

I've done four or five problem-free chip removals this way, from XEs and and STs. I don't use flux but I get the feeling life would be even easier if I did. Braid I never got the hang of yet.

 

Yep.. This is one effective technique.. Mount the board in a vise so you can access both sides of it.. USe one hand for the iron, and one hand for the solder sucker.. While you are "recocking" the soldr sucker with one hand, your other hand should be finding the next joint to desolder and moving the iron tip to it.. You can get pretty damn fast this way..

 

If you get some light liquid flux, and a fine artist's paint brush, you can brush a small amount of flux on the solder joints (on the side of the board that you will be applying the iron to) before you start, and it will help make things alot easier & faster, especially on old/oxidized boards..

 

Do each joint once at about 600 degrees F.. Then, go back and do stubbon ground plane and power distribution joints with about 750 degrees F.. If you find a joint that wont release at 750, find out why.. dont just keep cranking up the heat.. Your iron may not be high enough wattage.. 65-70 watts is more than enough, but make sure it's a TEMP CONTROLLED IRON!

 

Last, before you attempt to pry the chip off the board, go back from the solder side, with a fine pair of needle nose pliers and try to move each leg of the chip.. if it moves freely in the hole, then you know that its not stuck to the inside of the "barrel".. if it wont move freely in the hole, solder suck that joint one more time.. Once all pins move freely in the holes, remove the chip..

 

If you apply this technique and use a little patience, you'll never lift a trace or pad..

 

I cannot stress enough: GET A TEMP CONTROLLED IRON IF YOU DONT HAVE ONE... If you don't know ho wmuch heat you are applying, you have no business touching a board with that iron, unless you just dont care about salvaging the board..

[+poobah]

Yep.. This is one effective technique.. Mount the board in a vise so you can access both sides of it.. USe one hand for the iron, and one hand for the solder sucker.. While you are "recocking" the soldr sucker with one hand, your other hand should be finding the next joint to desolder and moving the iron tip to it.. You can get pretty damn fast this way..

 

If you get some light liquid flux, and a fine artist's paint brush, you can brush a small amount of flux on the solder joints (on the side of the board that you will be applying the iron to) before you start, and it will help make things alot easier & faster, especially on old/oxidized boards..

 

Do each joint once at about 600 degrees F.. Then, go back and do stubbon ground plane and power distribution joints with about 750 degrees F.. If you find a joint that wont release at 750, find out why.. dont just keep cranking up the heat.. Your iron may not be high enough wattage.. 65-70 watts is more than enough, but make sure it's a TEMP CONTROLLED IRON!

 

Last, before you attempt to pry the chip off the board, go back from the solder side, with a fine pair of needle nose pliers and try to move each leg of the chip.. if it moves freely in the hole, then you know that its not stuck to the inside of the "barrel".. if it wont move freely in the hole, solder suck that joint one more time.. Once all pins move freely in the holes, remove the chip..

 

If you apply this technique and use a little patience, you'll never lift a trace or pad..

 

I cannot stress enough: GET A TEMP CONTROLLED IRON IF YOU DONT HAVE ONE... If you don't know ho wmuch heat you are applying, you have no business touching a board with that iron, unless you just dont care about salvaging the board..

 

What MetalGuy Said!