Is SpartaDOS 3.3 pro ShareWare?

[charliecron]

I too would like to own the copyright to SpartaDOS!

 

Anyone out there than can disassemble a SpartaDOS binary and modify the resulting code for a 10th drive letter please contact me!

[Albert]

Boy, that didn't take long. I am now getting legal threats directly from Lance himself. He sent me one message late last night, complaining about metalguy advocating piracy of his software on AtariAge, and less than twelve hours later sends me this gem:

 

seeing as to how you have refused to answer me, and have left mr.cardins post of the source code to the program i own posted. i have no recourse except to contact my lawyers over this, and co-hold you responsible. if you think this is a little cute thing mr. cardin and metal guy have done. think about it again. your reputations are at stake here. and metalguy66 thinks that you will protect him.

if you think the market is so small that i will not act, think again. i already have against those in the past including mr. cardin, and i will again. this action will not end up in state courts, but in federal courts.

Nice guy.

 

I removed the "Lance Request" file that was posted twice in this thread, although Lance wasn't specific as to exactly what he wanted removed, but I assume that's it after looking it over. Please do not post it again. Regardless of whether or not Lance's claims have any merit, I don't need to be in the middle of this stupidity.

 

Thanks,

 

..Al

[jaybird3rd]

Well, one thing is certain: I'm not recommending or buying anything from Video 61 anymore, and I suggest that anyone else who doesn't like what they've read here should boycott them as well. Ringquist hasn't hurt anyone's reputation except his own. There are plenty of other classic gaming vendors out there who don't have pinecones up their asses over imaginary copyright violations (and whose prices are better), and I think they're more deserving of our business. After talking briefly with Steve Carden about this issue some years ago, I'm convinced that Ringquist's claims are without merit, and that his threats against Carden's employer in particular are laughingly ridiculous. Even if they are not, this isn't the way to go about protecting your property.

[Goochman]

Just so I udnerstand - the disputed Sparta releaes are related to 3.3..... Does this impact SpartaDos X, SDX, 4, etc... or are those different branches?

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Candle's new PBI device promises all that & more..

 

I try to keep up with reading all the tech. threads but you guys seem to have a lot more free time then I have. I read (and searched) about Candle's IO-Board but can't find many info. I'm interested in the USB interface he added. Does it act like a SIO2PC for USB? I only know he talked about synchronized data but that's about it.

 

And now you're mentioning a parallel interface! Never heard of it but want to know more about it :-)

 

Stuff like the serial port and dot-matrix graphics screen dumper are not really worth much more than nostalgia..

I couldn't live without RS232 and have 2 Black-Box' and I use the RS232 port on both of them. Actually, I want to be able to connect an 850 too and use it simultaneously with a Black-Box. I think it'd be possible with a custom 850 OS-ROM (like making the 850 to use M: as device ID in stead of R:).

 

I agree about the graphics dump. Never used it, although the only working printer I have is a Star NL10 connected to a Pentium 4 system. I rarely make a hard copy but in case I need it, it works like a charm. Epson FX80 drivers rule :-)

 

That said, I have a fully upgraded/enhanced BlackBox/Floppyboard combo.. and its a bad mofo.. and It would take alot of money to get me to part with it..

QFT.

 

A while ago I lend my Black-Box to someone who ripped it apart and created schematics of it. Someone else did the same with a floppy board (I don't have one) so that's "schematized" too. Would be nice to re-create a BB/FB combo with programmable logic, small enough to fit into an XE, just for the heck of it.

[Marius]

A while ago I lend my Black-Box to someone...

 

I remember this... and I lend you mine... which operated error-free for ages, till it was connected to your braindead atari XE configuration hehehe. And POOF that was my BB-Rom.

 

Hehehe.

Marius

[Slor]

Have you heard about the KMK/JZ IDE Hard Drive Interface yet? I don't know what the availability is but it sounds like just the thing.

I was under the the impression that was the same thing as the IDEa interface. I enquired at the Atari Fan Store but I was told they were no longer in production.

 

Yes - same dealio. If you want one, I would recommend contacting Pigula here. He does an excellent job building KMK/JZ/IDEa devices, SIO2SDs, and who knows what else.

 

James

[ataridano]

Candle's new PBI device promises all that & more..

 

I try to keep up with reading all the tech. threads but you guys seem to have a lot more free time then I have. I read (and searched) about Candle's IO-Board but can't find many info.

 

 

I couldn't live without RS232 and have 2 Black-Box' and I use the RS232 port on both of them. Actually, I want to be able to connect an 850 too and use it simultaneously with a Black-Box. I think it'd be possible with a custom 850 OS-ROM (like making the 850 to use M: as device ID in stead of R:).

 

 

On Candle's IO board, I'm interested too, and either didn't see anything about his board, or saw it refered to by a different name and didn't make the connection (was it the board with a PBI SD card and IDE?)

 

I agree on RS-232 too, that was actually one of the main things I got a MIO for, while I haven't used the atari for this much, I love to use old computers for e-mail and other internet stuff from time to time, just for the fun of it. Plus there's a ton of hardware out there that can connect to the serial port. Is there a way to change the Device ID on the Black Box?

 

Back on the topic of this thread, I was wondering if other "newer" versions of sparta are affected by all of this too. What's the best or newest disk-based version out there?

[cyco130]

Hi Fox-1 / mnx,

 

candle's I/O board is an SIO to USB interface (plus a PS/2 connector and audio output). The synchronous I/O capabilities aren't supported by any software on the PC side yet but there is some work in progress (see AspeQt).

 

There is some info about the board here. I'm sure he'll tell you more when he's got more time.

Edited February 3, 2010 by cyco130

[video61atarisales]

Just so I udnerstand - the disputed Sparta releaes are related to 3.3..... Does this impact SpartaDos X, SDX, 4, etc... or are those different branches?

 

 

only sparta-dos 3.3.

[dwhyte]

Well, one thing is certain: I'm not recommending or buying anything from Video 61 anymore, and I suggest that anyone else who doesn't like what they've read here should boycott them as well. Ringquist hasn't hurt anyone's reputation except his own. There are plenty of other classic gaming vendors out there who don't have pinecones up their asses over imaginary copyright violations (and whose prices are better), and I think they're more deserving of our business. After talking briefly with Steve Carden about this issue some years ago, I'm convinced that Ringquist's claims are without merit, and that his threats against Carden's employer in particular are laughingly ridiculous. Even if they are not, this isn't the way to go about protecting your property.

 

I concur. A boycott of Video61 is in order over these shenanigans. I, myself, will never purchase anything from Video61.

 

I personally read all Lance's posts as empty threats; a dog that's simply barking... LMAO. At least we officially now know who the current biggest douchebag in the Atari community is. Not to mention, displaying how juvenile Mr. Ringquist is by continually spelling Mr. Carden's name wrong, which we can only assume is out of spite.

 

In short, this thread left a bad taste in my mouth. Piss off the people who buy from you, Lance, and you'll find it's the quickest way to sink the ship.

 

Good day

Edited February 3, 2010 by dwhyte

[Fox-1 / mnx]

candle's I/O board is an SIO to USB interface (plus a PS/2 connector and audio output). The synchronous I/O capabilities aren't supported by any software on the PC side yet.

 

Would be nice if the USB also had SIO2PC compatibility.

 

I read the info on his site but it's not enough to get an idea what his goal is. It's clear it's an extension to his dual POKEY mod (simple stereo) so I assume he's going to use that 2nd POKEY for more then just audio. "Sounds" good :-).

 

 

I'm sure he'll tell you more when he's got more time.

 

That's why I didn't ask him yet. We will know when the time is there.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

Mr. Klaas' name was misspelled too. And IIRC he's dead.

 

Most of us never heard what happened before Lance and Stephen started to "not like each other". Don't judge Lance before you know the complete story.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[MEtalGuy66]

Mathy, They are only referring to the way Lance is acting.. Eg. threatening legal action over property that he has yet to prove to anyone that he owns.. Making rediculous OVER THE TOP threats of going to peoples employers and demanding to look through every piece of code they have ever written professionally.. (hah.. what a joke).. Threatening to take legal action against ME, simply becuase I relayed information/proposals for Steve initially, before he decided to go ahead and log on himself.. How are we to NOT JUDGE him based on this kind of behavior? You don't see Steve acting like this..

 

 

Albert removed the .pdf that contained the actual contract of sale of K-products to Lance.. Nowhere does it say anything about SpartaDOS.. It simply says BBS Express Professional, all programs & modules that go with it, and all rights that K-products owned.. Let's remember.. Lance is claiming he OWNS THE RIGHTS to the Sparta 3.3x pro series... Steve is not claiming to own the rights.. He's just claiming that it's shareware and noone could have sold them to Lance..... So the burden of proof is on Lance.. If you claim to own something, you produce a title, deed, or bill of sale PROVING that you own it. In this case, everyone remembers Mike Hohlman (Fte) releaseing the rights of the disk based versions of Sparta to the shareware community.... So if Bob Klaas did in fact {A} BUY THE RIGHTS to the modifications that Steve & Ken made to it, and {B}subsequently sell those rights to Lance, then Lance needs to prove BOTH of those points in order to establish ownership.

 

He has not.. He is acting like some letter that his lawyer wrote to Steve at some point qualifies as a legal contract of ownership simply because (he claims) Steve never disputed it... So under this type of logic, if I write a letter to the US department of state, claiming ownership of the capitol building in Washington.. and they choose not to reply to my crazy ramblings... Then by default, whatever I wrote in the letter automatically becomes truth!?!?!?

 

Mathy I respect you... And I realize that you dont live in the U.S... But seriously.. heh.. You can't possibly (after reading the events in this thread) claim that Steve and Lance are on "equal ground" from a behavioral/reasonable standpoint..

Edited February 3, 2010 by MEtalGuy66

[dwhyte]

...He is acting like some letter that his lawyer wrote to Steve at some point qualifies as a legal contract of ownership simply because (he claims) Steve never disputed it... So under this type of logic, if I write a letter to the US department of state, claiming ownership of the capitol building in Washington.. and they choose not to reply to my crazy ramblings... Then by default, whatever I wrote in the letter automatically becomes truth!?!?!?

 

Hear, hear! This, to me, is the best written response in this thread. I feel like I should buy you some beers for this, MEtalGuy66.

[Rybags]

To the best of my knowledge, a lawyer can't just approach someone (individual, business, company, whatever) and demand to see documents or works produced by an employee.

 

The cops can't either in most cases - that's what Search Warrants are for.

 

In the case of a dispute such as this, any such documentation would have to be provided under a "Subpoena duces tecum"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpoena_duces_tecum

 

In other words, a Court Case would have to be in progress.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Rybags

[Stephen J. Carden]

I too would like to own the copyright to SpartaDOS!

 

Anyone out there than can disassemble a SpartaDOS binary and modify the resulting code for a 10th drive letter please contact me!

That is not hard to do but why? I don't need a Disassembly I already have source. Are you wanting to put your ramdisk out on drive 10? Just send me an e-mail as to what the big picture is. I may already have a solution.

[Cebus Capucinis]

An attorney can certainly ask for the proof that is provided, and honestly, any attorney will produce the documentation before taking it to court. A settlement would be in everyone's best interest in situations like that.

 

There doesn't necessarily need to be a court case going, but certainly it can come to that. One party sends a letter asking for another party to provide documentation, and then the other party refuses.....then it goes to subpoenas. But both parties are in their rights. Party A is well within his rights to (nicely) ask for documents to support the claim, and Party B is well within his rights to refuse that request.

 

It can happen out of a courtroom and very frequently does. A subpoena would only be necessary in the event of a court case.

[Goochman]

To the best of my knowledge, a lawyer can't just approach someone (individual, business, company, whatever) and demand to see documents or works produced by an employee.

 

The cops can't either in most cases - that's what Search Warrants are for.

 

In the case of a dispute such as this, any such documentation would have to be provided under a "Subpoena duces tecum"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpoena_duces_tecum

 

In other words, a Court Case would have to be in progress.

 

Well a few years ago there was a change the to FRCP rules for lawsuits. Previously you could go 30 days before trial and not have to produce anything to opposing counsel - this lead to most cases being settled before actual trial.

 

The changes in the law set a period of 90 days after counsel has met (which needs to be done within a reasonable timeframe after suit is filed) - therefore in most cases information needs to be produced very quickly.

 

If there is reasonable concern that anything a party has done for an employer could be within the bounds on the suit the defandant much produce evidence which would contridict that or all information tied to the defendant must be produced regardless of cost.

 

This is commonly referred to 'stick up litigation' these days. I will subpena all hard drives in your organization in addition to all data servers unless you can prove nothing relevent is on them, ie - pay the settlement or spend a fortune mining these information sources.

 

So - it all depends on how far one wants to go these days.............

[Stephen J. Carden]

Boy, that didn't take long. I am now getting legal threats directly from Lance himself. He sent me one message late last night, complaining about metalguy advocating piracy of his software on AtariAge, and less than twelve hours later sends me this gem:

 

seeing as to how you have refused to answer me, and have left mr.cardins post of the source code to the program i own posted. i have no recourse except to contact my lawyers over this, and co-hold you responsible. if you think this is a little cute thing mr. cardin and metal guy have done. think about it again. your reputations are at stake here. and metalguy66 thinks that you will protect him.

if you think the market is so small that i will not act, think again. i already have against those in the past including mr. cardin, and i will again. this action will not end up in state courts, but in federal courts.

Nice guy.

 

I removed the "Lance Request" file that was posted twice in this thread, although Lance wasn't specific as to exactly what he wanted removed, but I assume that's it after looking it over. Please do not post it again. Regardless of whether or not Lance's claims have any merit, I don't need to be in the middle of this stupidity.

 

Thanks,

 

..Al

Hi Al,

 

The letter that was posted was from me. So now lance throught you actions has suppress my rights to freedom of speech which shows and states facts That lance does not want out in public. I really don't blame you for your actions and I am not upset in any form. But if you choose to suppress a part of the truth then kill the entire thread. Lance has made claims that I was a contract programmer that I worked for K-Products. Neither true He can not provide a single w-2 or 1099 or any peace of paper I signed that would be contract of any kind. Lance like to give lip service but has never produced a single document with k-products or any other company that contracted me to do any work! I code for the Atari because it is a nice past time hobby. Now I prvided proof and he does not want that out. The Disk based versions of SpartaDos are programs that have been widely passed on from one user to another. Bottom line is there is no money to be made by direct resale. There is value in having your name pop up on the screen every time someone boots it. ICD canceled all disk based programs because only hardware made them money. Lance has stated I published his source code. So for thoes that didn't get to read the pdf file it contained the Equates to bbs express Professional that Keith Ledbetter and Chris King published into public domain so that sysops or friends of sysops could program by.

 

Thanks for you time!

Edited February 4, 2010 by Stephen J. Carden

[Stephen J. Carden]

Just so I udnerstand - the disputed Sparta releaes are related to 3.3..... Does this impact SpartaDos X, SDX, 4, etc... or are those different branches?

 

 

only sparta-dos 3.3.

 

 

I not sure; but I would think since is is hell bound saying the owns "SpartaDos" That it would include all versions of SpartaDos.

[MEtalGuy66]

Bottom line is that until Lance produces documentation saying that he actually owns SpartaDos 3.3 pro, he can't do shit.. And he hasn't done that so far..

 

You can not sue someone over something that You choose to Infer, but that is not apparently evident, in a legal contract..

 

And this is what I see.. Lance has a contract of sale of K-products, proving he did buy BBS express pro, some additional programs, and some additional rights from K-products.. What he doesn't have is any official documents showing what exact programs and rights he purchased: Specifically, showing that K-products in fact owned the copyright to Spartados 3.3 pro...

 

So until he produces something like this, he can not win any sort of legal action he tries to initiate. This is real simple..

[Ralphy Rocket]

...He is acting like some letter that his lawyer wrote to Steve at some point qualifies as a legal contract of ownership simply because (he claims) Steve never disputed it... So under this type of logic, if I write a letter to the US department of state, claiming ownership of the capitol building in Washington.. and they choose not to reply to my crazy ramblings... Then by default, whatever I wrote in the letter automatically becomes truth!?!?!?

 

Hear, hear! This, to me, is the best written response in this thread. I feel like I should buy you some beers for this, MEtalGuy66.

 

I'll get the next round!!!.....I thought you guys were talking about windows 7 for a second...LOL!

[walktari]

Hallo Lance, Steven and all others,

 

so, I'm a little bit confused about the reaction that emerged from my question. I have the impression there will be no satisfactory solution to my problem. I'm just an ATARI fan und user, not able to decide who is right or wrong.

 

So the only solution for me seems to bee

 

a) not to use any of the mentioned SD 3.3 versions

or

b) to get a statement from Lance and Steven to allow me to use SD 3.3a/b for my project.

 

Maybe b) is the naive approach...

 

@Lance, Steven: please also check your PM.

 

 

Gtx

Edited February 4, 2010 by walktari

[Stephen J. Carden]

That's something I don't quite understand in Atarians, first they buy a slow, serial drive, saying probably something like "it is compatible, good and fast enough for my purposes", and then they often try to work around SIO's slowness with e.g. ramdisks, even battery backed. A fast hard drive, being faster than a ramdisk, more capacitous and non-volatile, is the correct solution here IMHO. And it could make new programs better too.

Yep - that's why I've been looking around for an IDEa interface, but I can't find one.

 

Have you heard about the KMK/JZ IDE Hard Drive Interface yet? I don't know what the availability is but it sounds like just the thing. Some of the flash drives offer promise here too.

 

I have one of there IDEa interfaces. Have not hooked it up yet however. It is a really nice board of top quility work. If you can get one grad it up. I think it will e one of thoes sleeper products. Ahead of it time. Now if it works half as nice as it looks it will be a cool addition to my toys.

 

Steve