Another thread for the Mod to close

[+Philsan]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (Voltaire?).

 

I have to say I haven't liked Emkay's ban.

 

I don't have the knowledge to say if he is right or wrong but he only has posted his point of view.

 

As long as a member doesn't insult other members he doesn't deserve to be banned unless he is a troll.

Emkay is clearly not a troll because he is a regular of this forum and he posts regulary interesting A8 tunes.

He doesn't appear (as others do) only to defend his beloved computers.

 

There's no doubt that STE'86 (and everybody using offensive words) deserves a banning for his words: "he's mad as a fcking snake".

[flashjazzcat]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (Voltaire?).

I just looked it up and apparently it was written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall and merely attributed to Voltaire, who had an Atari. Being a C64 user, Evelyn Beatrice Hall resented the way in which Voltaire's computer was obviously and undeniably vastly superior to her machine in every way, and she took every opportunity to misquote him in the hope that history would ultimately show - in the eyes of the most esteemed literary and scientific historians - that the SID chip was obviously the best in every conceivable sense of the word. I don't have reliable sources for that last bit, but obviously it's true.

Edited February 23, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[atariksi]

emkay was trying to convince people that Rob Hubbard did Atari 8-bit tunes before his C64 ones, that's despite Hubbard himself saying in multiple interviews and talks that it wasn't the case.

The maxim applies perfectly there. If someone wants to uphold their conviction in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, there comes a point where it's futile to attempt to convince them otherwise (I have to point out that personally I know absolutely nothing about the subject at hand one way or the other). I know all about this from trying to convince my wife that the Lunar Landings weren't a hoax.

 

You're also jumping to the conclusion according to your views. Sometimes people say things in interviews to keep their "bigger" fanbase or politically. Probably an interview before he had a fanbase or to his personal members would be more convincing.

 

Ahm, some Lunar Landings do seem faked out-- what some nations do under the pressure of competition. There was some article that pointed out shadows and reflections in some photographs indicating they weren't on the moon.

[+Philsan]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (Voltaire?).

I just looked it up and apparently it was written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall and merely attributed to Voltaire, who had an Atari. Being a C64 user, Evelyn Beatrice Hall resented the way in which Voltaire's computer was obviously and undeniably vastly superior to her machine in every way, and she took every opportunity to misquote him in the hope that history would ultimately show - in the eyes of the most esteemed literary and scientific historians - that the SID chip was obviously the best in every conceivable sense of the word. I don't have reliable sources for that last bit, but obviously it's true.

You are the master!

[emkay]

Yep - "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

 

emkay was trying to convince people that Rob Hubbard did Atari 8-bit tunes before his C64 ones, that's despite Hubbard himself saying in multiple interviews and talks that it wasn't the case.

 

Those guys got older and wiser. Not telling the truth is sometimes better to stand on a better position ... respectwise.

 

I still have the sentence, said by David Fox in my ears.... "The Commodore 64 version of Koronis Rift has more colours than the Atari version".... well.... that's what ppl wanted to hear, and everything was fine...

 

Only Hubbard knows the truth. And it's just my assumption! Because the music sounds very POKEY-stylish, while music done by other musicians clearly sounded "SID-wise" . Alike what happened, I still wonder what makes musicians starting to create full soundtracks on a minimalistic synth without any realistic sounding - alike whether SID or POKEY - , except for a money making purpose? Even today almost 99% of mankind would say that "chiptunes" is no music.

Back in the days, they even didn't realize what could happen with some chipsound in the future. Back in those days other computers with a fixed place on the market didn't even have a soundchip.

You have to be a fan of chip music to create chip music, but chipmusic was not developed back then to be a fan of it. So there was no dedicated market for chipmusic.

What did open this cycle to let chip music come into the people's minds?

[Heaven/TQA]

what was the cost of an average casio synth back in those days?

[PeteD]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (Voltaire?).

 

I have to say I haven't liked Emkay's ban.

 

I don't have the knowledge to say if he is right or wrong but he only has posted his point of view.

 

As long as a member doesn't insult other members he doesn't deserve to be banned unless he is a troll.

Emkay is clearly not a troll because he is a regular of this forum and he posts regulary interesting A8 tunes.

He doesn't appear (as others do) only to defend his beloved computers.

 

There's no doubt that STE'86 (and everybody using offensive words) deserves a banning for his words: "he's mad as a fcking snake".

 

Emkay was continually trolling for making up what more talented people than he had done in their past. When it was pointed out to him he was wrong according to all historical documentation and the word of the man himself he continued to bait the "C64 freaks". THAT is why he got banned. And if you guys thing mad a as fucking snake is so bad then either you just don't get it or it shows how desperate you are to get Ste banned when you keep harping on about it. Seems like eye for an eye has new meaning on this forum.

 

To continue now to postulate that he's lying because it's to please his fans, when those fans mean nothing to him as far as money or any real kudos (it's a bunch of geeks, let's be honest, he's not a top 10 chart musician or something) just shows that there's no real proof behind any of the reasoning. I could well say that anyone on here is lying about who they are, what they've achieved, eg, I could say I don't believe emkay actually produced any of the files he's uploaded. That's not what I think but I'm sure it would annoy him somewhat if I said it continually.

 

 

Pete

Edited February 23, 2010 by PeteD

[flashjazzcat]

You're also jumping to the conclusion according to your views. Sometimes people say things in interviews to keep their "bigger" fanbase or politically. Probably an interview before he had a fanbase or to his personal members would be more convincing.

 

Ahm, some Lunar Landings do seem faked out-- what some nations do under the pressure of competition. There was some article that pointed out shadows and reflections in some photographs indicating they weren't on the moon.

If the public could be accused of believing everything they see on the television (which clearly they do, for the most part), then this is as true of their belief of the conspiracy theorists as it is of the broadcast moon landings themselves. For every article or documentary which points out incongrous shadows and reflections, there are an equal number of articles comprehensively refuting, explaining or simply dismissing those incongruities. I for one take the Astronauts' testimonies at face value: to not do so, I believe is to be swamped by cynissism. It's another argument which will go on until the end of time, I imagine - like which computer is best. The deciding factor here is clearly which music chip Buzz Aldrin preferred! Also we should consider whether it was Atari or Commodore designing the custom ICs for the moon lander: that will settle once and for all whether or not we've been to the moon.

Edited February 23, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[PeteD]

Hey! What about Michael Collins?!? Poor bastard

 

 

Pete

[Heaven/TQA]

You're also jumping to the conclusion according to your views. Sometimes people say things in interviews to keep their "bigger" fanbase or politically. Probably an interview before he had a fanbase or to his personal members would be more convincing.

 

Ahm, some Lunar Landings do seem faked out-- what some nations do under the pressure of competition. There was some article that pointed out shadows and reflections in some photographs indicating they weren't on the moon.

If the public could be accused of believing everything they see on the television (which clearly they do, for the most part), then this is as true of their belief of the conspiracy theorists as it is of the broadcast moon landings themselves. For every article or documentary which points out incongrous shadows and reflections, there are an equal number of articles comprehensively refuting, explaining or simply dismissing those incongruities. I for one take the Astronauts' testimonies at face value: to not do so, I believe is to be swamped by cynissism. It's another argument which will go on until the end of time, I imagine - like which computer is best. The deciding factor here is clearly which music chip Buzz Aldrin preferred! Also we should consider whether it was Atari or Commodore designing the custom ICs for the moon lander: that will settle once and for all whether or not we've been to the moon.

 

 

AAAHA... Buzz Aldrin = reference for Buzz in Toy Story?

[atariksi]

You're also jumping to the conclusion according to your views. Sometimes people say things in interviews to keep their "bigger" fanbase or politically. Probably an interview before he had a fanbase or to his personal members would be more convincing.

 

Ahm, some Lunar Landings do seem faked out-- what some nations do under the pressure of competition. There was some article that pointed out shadows and reflections in some photographs indicating they weren't on the moon.

If the public could be accused of believing everything they see on the television (which clearly they do, for the most part), then this is as true of their belief of the conspiracy theorists as it is of the broadcast moon landings themselves. For every article or documentary which points out incongrous shadows and reflections, there are an equal number of articles comprehensively refuting, explaining or simply dismissing those incongruities. I for one take the Astronauts' testimonies at face value: to not do so, I believe is to be swamped by cynissism. It's another argument which will go on until the end of time, I imagine - like which computer is best. The deciding factor here is clearly which music chip Buzz Aldrin preferred! Also we should consider whether it was Atari or Commodore designing the custom ICs for the moon lander: that will settle once and for all whether or not we've been to the moon.

 

People do say things in public just for political, monetary, fanbase, or other reasons rather than the truth. Just look at all the advertisements-- biased toward some end other than the truth although sometimes truth coincides with the advertisement.

 

There's a book also interviewing astronauts claiming certain moon missions being hollywood-type stage scenes. If you took some movie scene of moon or mars landings and put them in the news, how many people would be able to tell the difference?

[emkay]

About "talent"

 

What is a talent?

 

a) to stand 2m above the ground on a ladder and to simply grab something from that position in 3m height

b) to jump 3m and grab the same thing?

c) to search on the wall for some gaps being able to use them for reaching the thing in 3m height?

 

 

 

actually

 

a is not a talent

 

b is a dumb plan

 

c is a talent

 

 

[PeteD]

Wrong, that's intelligence, something somewhat lacking by the looks of it.

 

 

Pete

[atariksi]

what was the cost of an average casio synth back in those days?

 

I bought a Casio for $125 (USD) back in early 1980s and it didn't even have any MIDI ports. Not that MIDI mattered as I never got into MIDI stuff. Found it easier to digitized audio although it was a memory hog.

[flashjazzcat]

Wrong, that's intelligence, something somewhat lacking by the looks of it.

Or ingenuity.

 

Surely Talent's a natural flair for something. It's usually something that can't be taught. One might have a flair for languages, for example.

 

a) to stand 2m above the ground on a ladder and to simply grab something from that position in 3m height

b) to jump 3m and grab the same thing?

c) to search on the wall for some gaps being able to use them for reaching the thing in 3m height?

 

Frankly, I'd say the one who can jump three metres is the most talented. A's the most intelligent (he's certainly going about it the way I'd do it). C's just got nothing better to do with his time, didn't have the sense to bring a ladder, and isn't very fit.

Edited February 23, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[analmux]

This is really funny. The Admin tells me to rename the thread, which is simply not possible, except being an Admin. Yesterday I even could not see the post after sending it. Today I have to read this.....So, Albert, if you wish, you can block my account. Some things may never change.

 

Jesus, think about what you're saying before you post. Now Ste'86 (who I've known since the mid 80s) ISN'T STE'86 of C64/Compunet/Graphics fame, so now HE's lying as well as Hubbard? I suppose that's along the same lines as anulmux's "you're obviously oky2000" crap so not really surprising as a tactic.

...CUT...

 

 

Please learn to read. I never said that. So, let's have another look at anulmux's crap, and PeteD's wise words (to be found in the RH-thread):

 

Sorry if on a public forum I replied to a post targeted at someone else but I believe that in such a public forum anyone involved has the right to reply.

Don't feel sorry, but, your answer is not the answer to my question. However, in the meantime, feel free to reply.

Just to come back to this one. Are you implying I'm also registered as oky2000? If so please contact Albert immediately as he frowns upon such things!!

It's no problem having 2 accounts when you're one of the heroes of the past

Cool, I'll remember that if I ever feel the need to register under a different name

Come on, now don't pretend you didn't know that already.

Well, I know a certain someone sometimes classed as a past hero had more than one account, they're now banned and quite happy about it. I also know that frenchman tried it and got banned. If you're still implying I've got more than one account then I'd ask you to please do something about it, a good banning would save me a fair amount of misery

In my eyes you're a grown-up and honest man, so I assume you are able to solve it yourself. Anyway, it's not my job to find people with 2 accounts. You could have a good reason for it.

WTF is that crap supposed to mean?

 

Really now. I'll ask for the last time, if you think I have, ask Al, if you're talking about someone else, make yourself clear. What your post sounds like is you thought I had, you tried to report me, you were told you were wrong and you post that crap.

 

Please, if you haven't already done so, PM Al, ask him to verify what you say then to post here cuz I'm getting sick of this.

 

*edit*

I'll tell you what, I'll do it for you as "it's not your job"

 

People who are able to read clearly will nowhere find any explicit words of anulmux saying PeteD is obviously the same person as oky2000. Sorry mate.

 

Alright, this joke lasted for long enough. I don't think PeteD = oky2000, but I was asking oky2000 what he thinks about something, and then YOU reply. Simply put, that's not the answer to my question, so I made the joke. Still not sure why you didn't understand this immediately. Also not sure why you were bothering Albert with this.

 

OK, sorry for this. I'd say I'm curious about your progress on 'way of the exploding fist'. Could you post some progress stuff somewhere on AA forum? At least your 'partner in crime' STE'86 posted some of his stuff, trying to convert some gfx for the thread about porting Prince of Persia. So I don't really think the two of you are fake persons.

 

 

As for banning Ste for saying mad as a fcking snake, stop crying about it. It's nowhere near as bad as the things you and others have got away with in the past (myself included) you're just upset that you got banned then had a thread locked so feel the need to retaliate by attempting to get Ste (or any other "c64 freak", and no, I'm not any kind of FREAK) banned.

 

STE's comment was a personal attack. Emkay's comments about 'C64 freaks' not, as noone specific was mentioned.

 

 

*edit*

RE: Unused pokey potential, I've offered more than once to write code based on what anyone will tell me (previously as long as it was sensible, now I just don't care if it's actually reliable or not) and I get ignored, then you complain that nobody is doing it.

 

I have no trouble with writing code myself. Only with finding enough time to actually do it. Do you think it takes less time for me to explain you all, and correct you when you were making any coding mistakes, instead of doing it myself? Man, wake up, that would take me many hours more.

[PeteD]

Analmux, you seem to think you're very funny guy, in reality you've come across as an asshole with your "joke". It wasn't a joke it was idiotic when you could've made yourself clear within 1 post instead even what you've cut/pasted there makes you look like an idiot. That's the last you'll hear from me.

 

As far as posting progress, as discussed with other people elsewhere I don't like to do it (as other people don't). There's no visual progross on Fist apart from a sprite routine that has no Fist sprites but test data and some timed splits moving some solid blocks of PMG around and changing colours. Basically everything needed to display Fist. All the real progress on Fist is in my multipurpose PC app. If you want to see progress on other things I've done, read other threads.

 

And stop getting fucking shirty when you try to tell everyone how simple it is to do enhanced pokey stuff, I offer to write the code then suddenly it's too difficult. If you didn't want to do it for the reason you just posted you should've said so the first time. Wake up yourself and stop trying to make it look like it's my fault somehow.

 

*edit*

Just a couple more thoughts.

 

Ste never mentioned emkay, people made their own decision as to who he was talking about.

 

I do hope that you're not implying in part of your post that I'm somehow "fake"? This type of stuff has been mentioned before coming from you guys and it's more of a personal attack (no matter how veiled) than anything Ste has said.

 

 

Pete

Edited February 23, 2010 by PeteD

[atariksi]

Wrong, that's intelligence, something somewhat lacking by the looks of it.

Or ingenuity.

 

Surely Talent's a natural flair for something. It's usually something that can't be taught. One might have a flair for languages, for example.

 

a) to stand 2m above the ground on a ladder and to simply grab something from that position in 3m height

b) to jump 3m and grab the same thing?

c) to search on the wall for some gaps being able to use them for reaching the thing in 3m height?

 

Frankly, I'd say the one who can jump three metres is the most talented. A's the most intelligent (he's certainly going about it the way I'd do it). C's just got nothing better to do with his time, didn't have the sense to bring a ladder, and isn't very fit.

 

Talent definition is:

 

tal·ent (tlnt)

n.

1. A marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment. See Synonyms at ability.

2.

a. Natural endowment or ability of a superior quality.

b. A person or group of people having such ability: The company makes good use of its talent.

3. A variable unit of weight and money used in ancient Greece, Rome, and the Middle East.

 

I would say a+c-- climbing the ladder and then looking for a place in the wall. But if there are gaps all over the wall, the ladder is optional so why bother with the ladder and carry that weight with you.

[PeteD]

That's just intelligence again, not talent, I really can't see how you can come to that conclusion from the dictionary definition. Or is it just more argument causing posting?

 

If you said a person could find gaps in a wall without touching it and blindfold, THAT is a talent.

 

 

Pete

[analmux]

Analmux, you seem to think you're very funny guy, in reality you've come across as an asshole with your "joke". It wasn't a joke it was idiotic when you could've made yourself clear within 1 post instead even what you've cut/pasted there makes you look like an idiot. That's the last you'll hear from me.

 

I'm sure this reply of yours is still not enough to get you blocked or banned. After all this isn't the first time (by far) you're writing like this. You lucky guy. For some people the board rules don't seem to matter.

 

 

And stop getting fucking shirty when you try to tell everyone how simple it is to do enhanced pokey stuff, I offer to write the code then suddenly it's too difficult. If you didn't want to do it for the reason you just posted you should've said so the first time. Wake up yourself and stop trying to make it look like it's my fault somehow.

 

Pete, are you feeling OK? I never wrote it's your fault we still have no decent pokey tracker. I don't tell 'everyone' anything. Knowing what I'm knowing I can say it is simple to do enhanced pokey stuff, but unfortunately you still didn't figure out what I mean exactly. I mean, with a minimum of CPU usage. This doesn't mean that I ever succeeded in explaining these features in the past, such that other people say 'hey we understand what to do now'. You can check my post archive. I did explain pokey stuff many times, but response was a bit minimalistic. Keep yourself informed, man. Read it up.

Edited February 23, 2010 by analmux

[Albert]

PeteD and oky2000 are not the same person, as far as I can tell, so enough with that please.

 

..Al

[analmux]

...Ste never mentioned emkay, people made their own decision as to who he was talking about...

 

blablabla.

 

You only think this is a reply to you, but in reality it is aimed at noone.....good luck

[Albert]

Analmux, you seem to think you're very funny guy, in reality you've come across as an asshole with your "joke". It wasn't a joke it was idiotic when you could've made yourself clear within 1 post instead even what you've cut/pasted there makes you look like an idiot.

That's enough of this crap. I'm closing this thread, go back to discussing Atari 8-bit and C64 audio in the original thread, which I've opened back to everyone. If I see any more attacks I'll start kicking people out of the thread one at a time.

 

..Al