Anyone still use DDP's?

[Mark_Coleco]

Anyone here still use Digital Data Packs for there ADAM micro computer?

 

If so have you been successful at duplicating your DDP's onto Audio cassettes?

[+save2600]

If so have you been successful at duplicating your DDP's onto Audio cassettes?

IIRC, if someone was to attempt doing just that, you'd need a Metal formulated tape. Those were not so rare back in the day, but they were more expensive and relegated to the audiophile community (generally speaking). I bet a lot people would have been discouraged thinking they could simply pop their cheap ass Certron normal bias tape into their Adam's and ditched the idea I'm with you though, be neat to hear from people that actually used that computer productively. I had one for a short stint back in the late 80's and only used it for gaming

[Mark_Coleco]

Actually normal Bias tapes work, I used SONY HF and K-mart(KMC) Audio Tapes to make my DDP's. Apparently BASF tapes work too. These are non metal/chrome tapes. The ADAM came out on the market a year or so before metal/chrome tapes where in use, so Coleco didn't know about them yet.

 

The biggest problem with other tapes is they tangle up, come loose off the spool and get trapped between the case.

 

I used an old 1980's stereo to make my DDP's setting the EQ just above normal, and it worked. On a 1998 stereo system I tried to duplicate a DDP but after five try's I couldn't. Simply because the new stereo has preset EQ settings and I think auto noise leveling, very bad thing to have when trying to duplicate.

 

Of course you had to drill holes in the casings on the DDP's and the Audio tape.

[+save2600]

Interesting, so I was wrong about the formulation. Must be thinking of another proprietary use then. But, Metal formulated tapes were around before the Adam. '79 it looks like. Not only did I have them back in the day, but I currently own vintage tape decks (pre '83) with the Metal/Chrome and Normal bias settings.

Edited March 11, 2010 by save2600

[Mark_Coleco]

Really, hmmmm, I didn't see the metal/chrome music tapes until 85 myself... so why didnt they use them for the ADAM, they would have lasted longer.

[+save2600]

Really, hmmmm, I didn't see the metal/chrome music tapes until 85 myself... so why didnt they use them for the ADAM, they would have lasted longer.

Damn good question. Not only would the data transfer have been that much more reliable, but the tape itself would have lasted. Most Metal bias tapes also included fancy cassette casings, making them even more impervious to damage from speed, heat, cold, etc. Guess it was just too expensive a format for 'em at the time. Only better cassette decks had the Metal circuitry back then and I bet whoever invented the technology (3M I guess), didn't license it out on the cheap. Dolby laboratories same thing at first, then you saw 'B' everywhere. 'C' took forever before we saw it in consumer decks and 'S'... forget about it! lol

Edited March 11, 2010 by save2600

[Murph74]

I used 2 cassette decks to make my first copy of Dragon's Lair back in the day. Record level was at about 7.5 of 10 on the dial. That was the only way I could get it to copy after I had no luck using the backup program in the Hacker's Guide To Adam.

 

Also made a bunch of blank DDP's from the Sony HF-60s (the were usually like 89 cents I think). Those were pretty much the tape of choice-- although I do know a handful of people who used the Maxell XLII-60's, a much more expensive tape. And yes, the joys of drilling the DDPs for the cassette deck's idler pins, and drilling the cassettes for the DDP's lock pins near the write-protect tabs. Never had a tape crash on me though, no matter the brand.

 

And not sure what you mean by productive, but we wrote school papers, letters, and a handful of other non-gamin related things on the Adam. It was also the computer that got me on-line in 1985 for the first time when I found out a BBS's.

 

But to answer the original question-- I haven't fired my Adam up in over ten years. Still play Colceovision, but the Adam is still on my desk in my parents basement. (And for the record, I'm not still in my parents basement, I'm a full functioning, contributing-to-society, out on my own adult. lol)

Edited March 12, 2010 by Murph74

[Mark_Coleco]

Maxell XLII-60 HIGH Bias tapes worked? No problems with the tape getting tangled?

 

 

and I think that you can copy Dragon's Lair with the Pack Copy program, not too sure cause I have drill holes in my Dragons Lair so I must have made a copy of it with a stereo, Don't know... Pack Copy help me out alot, that and Cart Copy. I would borrow my friends cartridges and not tell them I was going to back them up on DDP, all they knew is the CV, they didn't know about the ADAM

Edited March 12, 2010 by Mark_Coleco

[Murph74]

Maxell XLII-60 HIGH Bias tapes worked? No problems with the tape getting tangled?

 

 

and I think that you can copy Dragon's Lair with the Pack Copy program, not too sure cause I have drill holes in my Dragons Lair so I must have made a copy of it with a stereo, Don't know... Pack Copy help me out alot, that and Cart Copy. I would borrow my friends cartridges and not tell them I was going to back them up on DDP, all they knew is the CV, they didn't know about the ADAM

 

I never saw a problem with the tapes getting tangled. Not on any cassette. I'd almost htink you might have Drive issues if your tapes are getting tangled. Sounds like the take up and slack reel pins (not sure what the 'real' name for them is, but the sprockets that turn the spools) are letting too much play in the tap and it's snapping. I've seen drives go bad and do some funky stuff to tapes, but never had an issue in a properly working DDP Drive. I personally preferred the drives that had no spring visible inside the media housing and had EJECT written in the Adam font, not just generic type. Not sure that there is much of a true difference, but always had good luck with the Ada- font units.

 

And yes, you definitely can copy it with Packcopy. (Don't forget to check for Right Hand Directory or Center Directory before copying stuff though! ) But at the time, QuickCopy nor PackCopy were out yet-- the Hacker's Guide program was the only one I was aware of (and maybe even the only one available!) at that time, which was a pretty weak program, but was kinda the start of everything for Adam stuff! And incidentally, the program tape that accompanied the Hackers Guide book was on one of the cheapest white shell generic tapes you could find.

[ed1475]

the program tape that accompanied the Hackers Guide book was on one of the cheapest white shell generic tapes you could find.

 

HA HA That's what my Hacker's Guide is on. It still works too.

[+save2600]

I never saw a problem with the tapes getting tangled. Not on any cassette. I'd almost htink you might have Drive issues if your tapes are getting tangled. Sounds like the take up and slack reel pins (not sure what the 'real' name for them is, but the sprockets that turn the spools) are letting too much play in the tap and it's snapping.

Capstan, pinch roller and tape path all need to be cleaned regularly (non alcohol based as it'll dry out the rubber pinch roller and eat and lubricants). Weak, sloppy or worn belts (that drives the capstan) can effect the take-up also, which is largely responsible for eating tapes

 

For anyone that had "bad luck" with the better Maxell tapes of yore, meant your tape deck was either a POS or it needed to be cleaned and/or had its belt replaced.

 

Great to hear some having tremendous luck with analogue tape for media storage though! There was a thread about just that on another forum. I have tapes from the 70's that work perfectly still (music and data). A majority of my music tapes even spent years in the car throughout the various seasons. Not exactly a friendly environment. MOST of my recordable CD-R's are junk now from the 90's up to the mid 2000's. Yep, recorded on various machines, such as ones built for computer use as well as hi-end dedicated home audio. Can't tell you how glad I am not have to ditched all my originals I "backed up" to this worthless optical medium

Edited March 12, 2010 by save2600

[Mark_Coleco]

Well I tried a TDK tape and the drive snapped the tape and it entangled inside the casing, I tried another one and it hasn't gotten damaged yet.

From what I experienced 24 years ago Sony HF-60s and 90s work and so did the k-mart tapes (KMC)-60.

I'm also told BASF-60's work.

 

The biggest problem for me today is my new stereo won't duplicate the DDP's, either because of two things, it has a 4 preset EQ, it may have auto-leveling too, I'm not sure yet.

My old stereo from the 80's that I recently found again is busted so I'm out of luck there, but it did have a manual EQ and no auto leveling, so naturally the dubbing worked.

 

Anyhow I'm trying to write a FAQ on how to dubb these tapes so if anyone can help me out with testimonials or suggestions that would be great.

[Murph74]

Good advice in general, Save2600-- but the DDP is a different beast from a standard tape deck if memory serves me. Been years since I've look at one closely, but there was a thread about repairing them here a while back-- http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/130089-coleco-adam-ram-expansion-and-tape-drive-repair/

 

And Mark-- I can't think of a reason to use 90 min tapes for the Adam, once formatted, they're both 256k. Just make sure you're using Right Hand Driectory tapes or Center Directory DDPs as needed. Most games used RHD DDPS, since they'd load scenes sequentially left to right. CHD DDP's were for anything that may have random access, so from the directory it wouldn't have to go thru more than half the tape to reach it's destination.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Murph74

[Mark_Coleco]

Thanks for the link.

 

Your right about the 90 min tape, I just used 90 min SONY cause that's all they had when I went to buy them, I think they ran out of the 60 mins one. Either way the 90min tapes worked.

 

and your right again the super game packs use a right hand directory, but that's only important when you use a copy program when you have to tell it to use the correct directory location, not when copying through a stereo.

 

Thanks for posting!

[Murph74]

and your right again the super game packs use a right hand directory, but that's only important when you use a copy program when you have to tell it to use the correct directory location, not when copying through a stereo.

 

Yeah, copying thru a stereo you'll get a direct image of whatever your master is. But my point was, if you're making DDP's for just general use, make sure you copy a Center Directory DDP so you don't wear out your DDP drive any faster than you have to. I don't know if you noticed or not, but they don't make those things anymore.

[Mark_Coleco]

oh, okay. I guess a smartbasic INIT won't center the catalog from a right hand catalog.

 

I do my recording with a center catalog, at least as of lately.

 

Thanks.

[snume]

the program tape that accompanied the Hackers Guide book was on one of the cheapest white shell generic tapes you could find.

 

HA HA That's what my Hacker's Guide is on. It still works too.

 

Does anybody know if there's a scanned version of the Hacker's Guide online anywhere?