ATARI 130XE (NTSC) - First Hardware Project

[abbotkinneydude]

Hello everyone,

 

I salvaged this NTSC 130XE off Ebay a few years ago and finally decided to spend some time on it.

 

First, I tried the machine and, except for outputting black & white (instead of color - however that may be due to the cheapo video cable bought on Ebay), it works fine.

 

After dismantling it, the SIO seems to have been tampered with.

 

Anyway, what I'd like to do first with it is give it back its original color (will look at the pinned threads but if one method is better than another, let me know).

 

The second thing would be Video upgrade but I haven't used a soldering iron in 20 years so my question is: is it that hard to do such an upgrade for a novice ?

 

(or is there something easier to start with like piggy bagged pokey ?).

 

Thank you,

 

PA.

 

Edited March 25, 2010 by pierreandre

[flashjazzcat]

Hello everyone,

 

I salvaged this NTSC 130XE off Ebay a few years ago and finally decided to spend some time on it.

 

First, I tried the machine and, except for outputting black & white (instead of color - however that may be due to the cheapo video cable bought on Ebay), it works fine.

 

After dismantling it, the SIO seems to have been tampered with.

 

Anyway, what I'd like to do first with it is give it back its original color (will look at the pinned threads but if one method is better than another, let me know).

 

The second thing would be Video upgrade but I haven't used a soldering iron in 20 years so my question is: is it that hard to do such an upgrade for a novice ?

 

(or is there something easier to start with like piggy bagged pokey ?).

 

Thank you,

 

PA.

 

 

Can't quite figure out what the resistor cluster on the SIO socket is all about. Many of the pins seem to be attached to ground(???). I wouldn't be at all surprised if the eBay cable has a broken lead: absolutely no offence to the guy who sold me mine, but the chroma broke two thirds of the way along the cable after only a few hours of use. He replaced it free of charge, which was great (he offered a "lifetime warranty").

 

The pinned topics tell you all you need to know about restoring the machine to its original colour. I've recently been talking to another UK forum member about this, and I suggested my technique of painting on 40 vol creme peroxide with no other additives and leaving the case out under the sun. I also suggested cleaning the case off every hour or so and reapplying the peroxide to get rid of dried out residue build-up in order to avoid blooming. His results were absolutely stunning: perhaps he'd be kind enough to post the photos on the forum for you.

 

SuperVideo XE is probably the most popular video upgrade, but I have found it can overdrive the display with some TVs/monitors. You could always try to improve the display by ripping out the RF box if you're feeling ambitious and you don't mind losing composite video and artifacting. Desoldering is the main skill you'll need to refamiliarise yourself with when doing mods. I've only been using a soldering iron for a year or so but the key was to practise on old boards first. I can now get an IC out of a board fairly quickly, usually without incident.

 

Some upgrades are of course easier than others. Supervideo was the first thing I ever did, mainly because the desoldering isn't too hard. I still managed to lift a trace, though!

Edited March 25, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[+bob1200xl]

Those components on the SIO socket are capacitors - probably added to reduce noise on the SIO. You see them in some 130XEs and I'm sure they're factory installed.

 

The best thing to do with the video is to use the s-video input on a TV, with 75ohm resistors to ground at the TV end. That should look pretty good. I use a video cable with four RCA connectors that plug into a little circuit box containing the resistors and a s-video cable stub for output.

 

Measured against the risk, I don't think an internal video upgrade is worth the benefit. Perhaps a memory upgrade or a dual Pokey on a board would be better returns.

 

 

Bob

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

I salvaged this NTSC 130XE off Ebay a few years ago and finally decided to spend some time on it.

 

First, I tried the machine and, except for outputting black & white (instead of color - however that may be due to the cheapo video cable bought on Ebay), it works fine.

 

After dismantling it, the SIO seems to have been tampered with.

 

Anyway, what I'd like to do first with it is give it back its original color (will look at the pinned threads but if one method is better than another, let me know).

 

The second thing would be Video upgrade but I haven't used a soldering iron in 20 years so my question is: is it that hard to do such an upgrade for a novice ?

 

(or is there something easier to start with like piggy bagged pokey ?).

 

Thank you,

 

PA.

 

[flashjazzcat]

Those components on the SIO socket are capacitors - probably added to reduce noise on the SIO. You see them in some 130XEs and I'm sure they're factory installed.

Thanks Bob - that explains it.

[Havok69]

Has anyone tried the anti-yellowing fix for an XE keyboard yet?

[flashjazzcat]

Has anyone tried the anti-yellowing fix for an XE keyboard yet?

Yep - invariably with spectacular results. If you're lazy you don't even need to pull the keys off - just as long as you detach the back panel, mylar and any rubber cups first (if applicable). I just paint peroxide on the keyboard and leave it on the windowsill. Even the worst usually look like new after six hours or so.

[Havok69]

That's good to know - I would have been scared to try with the lettering there.

[flashjazzcat]

That's good to know - I would have been scared to try with the lettering there.

Mild abrasives and acetates will take off the lettering, but the peroxide has no effect on it whatsoever, so you have no worries at all.

[abbotkinneydude]

@ Bob:

 

Thank you for your input. One of the resistors has its soldering broken - will that affect performance ?

 

@ Flash Jazz Cat:

 

If I remember correctly, you came up recently with an XE Video Upgrade - is it limited to PAL systems only ?

 

As for Super Video XE, I remember reading about it in Atari Classics in the early nineties (when Ben Poehland was heading the publication).

 

Has this upgrade been "modernized" since its original publication ? (Bryan had a quick XL video upgrade done a few years back but no clue if it applies to the XEs).

 

---------------------------------

 

In general, where do you order your components ? Do you drive to Radio Shack or do you order on-line ?

 

Since I have a few machines, I'd like to order in 'quantities' so if you can recommend me a good internet vendor for resistors & others, I would tremendously appreciate.

 

Thank you,

 

PA.

[beamer320i]

Evening all!

 

@ flashjazzcat - Hi Jon, though my ears were burning !

 

After following flashjazzcat's advice above to the letter, my keyboard and case look like new! Admittedly the case wasn't too bad, but the keyboard was very yellow... i think you can tell the before and after!

 

Dom

[flashjazzcat]

If I remember correctly, you came up recently with an XE Video Upgrade - is it limited to PAL systems only ?

 

As for Super Video XE, I remember reading about it in Atari Classics in the early nineties (when Ben Poehland was heading the publication).

 

Has this upgrade been "modernized" since its original publication ? (Bryan had a quick XL video upgrade done a few years back but no clue if it applies to the XEs).

 

In general, where do you order your components ? Do you drive to Radio Shack or do you order on-line ?

 

Since I have a few machines, I'd like to order in 'quantities' so if you can recommend me a good internet vendor for resistors & others, I would tremendously appreciate.

IIRC, the XL version of Supervideo went through about three revisions, and I don't think the XE version was revised at all (or it might have been the other way around). SuperVideo and the more drastic UltraVideo aren't the only mods out there, though: I trawled this very forum a year or so back trying to get ideas to improve the display and there are plenty of ideas floating around. I constantly have to repeat that I'm no electronics expert: I just follow instructions, and in the case of Ultravideo, a look at the XL and XE video circuits suggested it might be beneficial to rip out the RF modulator. It helped me in both cases, and if you don't mind losing artifacts, it seems to bring improvements when people try it. But what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another...

 

When it comes to ordering components, I've tended to head to eBay and just order the cheapest and most cheeful components I can find with minimal attention paid to the vendor. Probably a poor way of going about things, but I've had no problems. Resistors are resistors as far as I'm concerned (and I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me on that!). In future I aim to be more methodical, however, and put a big order in with Farnells or some such to save having to order dribs and drabs via eBay.

 

After following flashjazzcat's advice above to the letter, my keyboard and case look like new! Admittedly the case wasn't too bad, but the keyboard was very yellow... i think you can tell the before and after!

Hi Dom! I know I've said it before, but that really is a splendid result.

Edited March 25, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[Havok69]

Wow! That looks incredible! Are you sure you're not just putting a NOS unit in the "after" pic?

 

[beamer320i]

Believe it or not it is the same machine, board and case! One thing I will say is that sunlight is important, it was a very sunny day (don't have access to UV lamps) I didn't totally strip the keyboard either (removing keys, etc) just removed the backing plate and mylar (don't lose the rubber cups!) and made happy with the peroxide! Result!

Edited March 25, 2010 by beamer320i

[+bob1200xl]

Jameco is usually pretty good for general parts, like resistor kits and such.

 

Digi-Key is good for hard-core parts, like ICs.

 

Bob

 

 

@ Bob:

 

Thank you for your input. One of the resistors has its soldering broken - will that affect performance ?

 

@ Flash Jazz Cat:

 

If I remember correctly, you came up recently with an XE Video Upgrade - is it limited to PAL systems only ?

 

As for Super Video XE, I remember reading about it in Atari Classics in the early nineties (when Ben Poehland was heading the publication).

 

Has this upgrade been "modernized" since its original publication ? (Bryan had a quick XL video upgrade done a few years back but no clue if it applies to the XEs).

 

---------------------------------

 

In general, where do you order your components ? Do you drive to Radio Shack or do you order on-line ?

 

Since I have a few machines, I'd like to order in 'quantities' so if you can recommend me a good internet vendor for resistors & others, I would tremendously appreciate.

 

Thank you,

 

PA.

[MEtalGuy66]

@ Bob:

 

Thank you for your input. One of the resistors has its soldering broken - will that affect performance ?

 

Those arent resistors. They are capacitors.. The only reason they are there is to make the 130xe meet rediculous FCC regulations concerning RF noise/interference.. Those caps were only installed on north american machines, and they screw up high-speed SIO operation..

 

REMOVE ALL OF THEM.. Don't worry,, just get a pair of dykes and clip them off..... If you don't, you are asking for flaky SIO operation.. Most NTSC XF551 drives actually wont work correctly even in normal SIO speed operations until you remove those capacitors from the 130xe SIO port..

[Kjmann]

Yes MetalGuy is Right. Get Rid of those Caps. once you clip them off the ground where they are all connected together you can just work them back and forth (with out pulling on them) and they will simply break loose. the SIO will NOT Function Correctly until they are Gone. I Even Had Problems with My Rana 1000 and Indus GT until I removed them.

 

 

[abbotkinneydude]

@ Bob1200xl: thank you for the leads - I'll look into Jameco :-)

 

@ Metalguy66: thank you for your insight. Always appreciated. :-)))

 

Quick question, I got a soldering iron from Fry's a while back but I have no clue if it's adapted for the job (pictures are below).

 

If it's not, can someone point out to a link (online store) where I can purchase something decent ?

 

Thanks !

 

PA.

 

 

 

 

[MEtalGuy66]

Dude.... If you are not experienced with soldering,

your vintage atari motherboard is NOT the place to learn. ESPECIALLY A 130XE..

Go get yourself a decent iron (like the Weller WESD51), some good 60/40 rosin-core solder, a deslodering pump, and PLENTY OF OLD BOARDS YOU DONT CARE ABOUT.

 

When you can depopulate an entire PCB with no damage to it whatsoever (and I mean something with lots of multi-leg components) then consider taking the iron near your atari... Not before..

[abbotkinneydude]

Metalguy... Thanks again... (love the tone of your replies).

 

Okay - I went to Jameco and found the Weller WESD51 ($169.99) and some rosin-core solder.

 

However, the only desoldering station they sell retails for $349.95... a little bit too high for my budget.

 

And yes... well understood about practicing on old boards; that's a given especially considering how fragile the 130xe MBs are.

 

(I have a bunch of old 1990's Macintosh parts I can practice on).

 

For the moment being, I'll go ahead with clipping the capacitors on the SIO port and "bleaching" the case (my old dream of a dark blue 130xe is long gone, I'll just stick to the original color).

 

Thanks again to everybody who replied to this thread; I'm learning quite a bit here.

[MEtalGuy66]

You dont need a high-dollar desoldering station.. They are not worth it anywayze..

 

People on here have said that this solder sucker works extremely well:

 

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=19255

 

I have not tried it.. I use this one: (along with a temp controlled iron and lots of "technique")

 

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=1942139

[Rybags]

I got a temperature controlled iron, with the dial and indicator LED in the handle itself. Cost maybe 5 bucks more than your equivalent standard one.

 

Gotta say, all the other irons I have are gathering dust - this thing works great.

 

Next step up are the mini-stations - if you shop around they should be around 40-60 bucks.

 

Well worth it IMO considering you pay close to $20 just for a semi-decent iron holder with sponge base.

[+bob1200xl]

FRY's sells a Hako 808 de-soldering tool for something like $170 and a Hako 926 soldering station for $50, or so. They work pretty good.

 

 

Bob

 

 

 

Metalguy... Thanks again... (love the tone of your replies).

 

Okay - I went to Jameco and found the Weller WESD51 ($169.99) and some rosin-core solder.

 

However, the only desoldering station they sell retails for $349.95... a little bit too high for my budget.

 

And yes... well understood about practicing on old boards; that's a given especially considering how fragile the 130xe MBs are.

 

(I have a bunch of old 1990's Macintosh parts I can practice on).

 

For the moment being, I'll go ahead with clipping the capacitors on the SIO port and "bleaching" the case (my old dream of a dark blue 130xe is long gone, I'll just stick to the original color).

 

Thanks again to everybody who replied to this thread; I'm learning quite a bit here.

[awace]

Whell as far as I have shorted together then tied to the sound and for some reason the color worked better. The Cable I use is a normal DIN PLUG AND ONLY HAS 4wires comming out of it 2 rca 100 foot white old radio shack cords so in a sence there is only 2 outoputs this leads me to belive i had shorted one of the

luma chroma together or one to video and the other to AUDIO + some how this made the color work great The cable is at parents house but next time I go there ill look at and send diagram on how i wired it.

[awace]

Whell as far as I have shorted together then tied to the sound and for some reason the color worked better. The Cable I use is a normal DIN PLUG AND ONLY HAS 4wires comming out of it 2 rca 100 foot white old radio shack cords so in a sence there is only 2 outoputs this leads me to belive i had shorted one of the

luma chroma together or one to video and the other to AUDIO + some how this made the color work great The cable is at parents house but next time I go there ill look at and send diagram on how i wired it.

 

IH yeah Before I forget ALways add a small amount of solder when desoldering to reflow and reinvigerate the solder as rotten solder never comes off ..

ALSO most chips are about 550'F or SO i have a 600 or 700 degree F soldering iron but some times I turn it off right before desoldering its weird cause if you solder a lot you know when its cooling down solder seems to STICK MORE also come off easyer ..

I also have figured out having a lot of refreshed sponge w COLD water helps maintain that IDEAL temprature needed..

I usually add a BIG BLOB OFNEW SOLDER THEN LET IT COOL THEN whip solder iron on sponge then put it to blob then desolder with solder sucker the one i got at MICROCENTER for $1.99 was and still is the BEST DESOLDERING sucker i have ever used its metal w a white plastic tip works great ..

sometimes I will re add solder and remove it 3 times waiting 3 minnutes between doing it untill i get a good resolder to be able to wiggle the pin sometimes it can be a real bitch to remove chips I always like to replace chips w sockets....

ANYWAY GOOD luck on the VIDEO but the chroma lumina not being connected to video and or sound is why you have or had washed out color!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I figured this out cause Missile command pushing s and smart bombs level 9 smartbombs only till i get at least 1 Million points looks so mutch better w COLOR roasted!!..

I almost forgot this is for composite only and the color wont come on untill you plug the audio cable on.. AS SOON AS I GET THE CABLE BACK FROM PARENTS HOUSE ILL SHOW HOW I HOOKED IT UP..

Edited August 25, 2011 by awace

[awace]

@ Bob:

 

Thank you for your input. One of the resistors has its soldering broken - will that affect performance ?

 

Those arent resistors. They are capacitors.. The only reason they are there is to make the 130xe meet rediculous FCC regulations concerning RF noise/interference.. Those caps were only installed on north american machines, and they screw up high-speed SIO operation..

 

REMOVE ALL OF THEM.. Don't worry,, just get a pair of dykes and clip them off..... If you don't, you are asking for flaky SIO operation.. Most NTSC XF551 drives actually wont work correctly even in normal SIO speed operations until you remove those capacitors from the 130xe SIO port..

 

the funny thing is it looks like they were trying to stop interferance comming IN TO THE SIO SO DUMB whell i couldbe wrong too!!..

the think that makes me FEURIOUS seeing those caps in the 1st place is how the hell do they expect the tape recorder to even work w that crock there you could never get a old tape to load w that crock shorting the lines out to Ground!..

wow