Anyone see VGC's review for Wasp?

[4Ks]

It's on the front page.

 

It must stink, for the first 7800 homebrew in a while to be so bad (especially considering how hyped this game was.).

[The_Laird]

What the F*** this is a disgrace!!!

 

VGC should be ashamed of himself, what a way to support the homebrew community

 

Personally I am looking forward to getting my copy

[VectorGamer]

It's on the front page.

 

It must stink, for the first 7800 homebrew in a while to be so bad (especially considering how hyped this game was.).

 

Where was the hype - AtariAge? Where members get flamed for being brutally honest if a home brew title truly sucks?

 

I never played this game and of the screenshots I saw it wasn't my cup of tea. So, I can't disagree or agree with VGC's rating. But, I am glad that reviewers out there don't shy away from fairly grading a home brew. It seems at times the gaming community gets jacked about a home brew for the sole purpose of playing something new versus constructively criticizing a title out of respect for knowing that the developer can do better.

 

For the record, I own Jr. Pac and Pac-Man Collection on the 7800 and those are the two best titles available for the 7800 today.

[Chickybaby]

It's one thing to grade something fairly and it's another to bomb it totally for not liking something and getting bored.

 

I would be quite upset if I worked hard on a game on my own time, had no fancy funding, and put all of what I could into a game without major profits for myself and have someone then so offhandedly and carelessly dismiss it who unfortunately has a big mouth in the vid gaming review community.

 

We should support our homebrewers, especially when they give us solid well playing titles, and in this case a very talented and caring person as well because in not doing so, it harms our community and dissuades people from continuing to program.

 

It's a game I very much want a copy of, so if anyone finds theirs as distasteful as that critic did I will be very happy to give it a good and much played home and imo it would be their loss and very much our benefit.

 

And no, imo the game does not stink and is not bad in the least bit. I would encourage anyone who thinks so to please go out and do better themselves. And to those who say it must stink for one reviewer to say so, I suggest not being sheep, taking the blinders off and to form opinions for themselves.

[GroovyBee]

Thanks for the support folks. It was reviewed in the UK's Retro Gamer (a real magazine ) last year :-

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/147377-the-day-of-the-wasp/

 

It scored 72%.

[Emehr]

Video Game Critic

Grade: C

I haven't played Wasp so I can't comment on the review. All I can say is this: always take his reviews with a grain of salt. I get the impression that his interests are mainly in sports games (is it really necessary to review every single yearly update to a game? I mean, the bulk of his reviews for moderns systems looks like the future bargain bin at GameSt*p).

 

He seems to have an appreciation for the 2600 but his 7800 and Lynx reviews show an indifference to those systems. Read his Warbirds review for the Lynx for example. He gave it a 'D' yet nowhere in his review does it sound like a 'D' game. And his critiques against it are extremely weak. It's like he just about failed it because he felt like it. Also, he doesn't even bother to review RPGs. He hands those off to a buddy. So, yeah, his gaming interests are pretty lop-sided so it's hard to really appreciate the grade values he assigns.

[VectorGamer]

 

We should support our homebrewers, especially when they give us solid well playing titles, and in this case a very talented and caring person as well because in not doing so, it harms our community and dissuades people from continuing to program.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said in your post. And regarding what I bolded above, in the same sense reviewers should not be dishing out good grades because "it's the thought that counts." If they did, in that respect it would be of disservice to the home brew community.

[AtariLeaf]

I agree that this review sounds pretty harsh. I haven't played the game so I can't comment on this particular title myself but I prefer objective reviews of homebrew games - not overly gushing but not bashing it either. The game needs to stand on its own merits regardless if the individual is part of the AA or any other retrogaming community or regardless of how much of his blood, sweat, and tears went into it. From my perspective, as someone who might purchase a homebrew at $20 - $30 a pop (plus shipping) I'd like an objective review.

 

I usually go by the reviews that are right here as part of the AA store by people who have purchased the game. They seems pretty objective and fair.

[4Ks]

I usually go by the reviews that are right here as part of the AA store by people who have purchased the game. They seems pretty objective and fair.

 

 

Actually, most AA Store reviews are written by fanboys who are so happy to have a new game for their system that they always give them a 5, regardless of quality. Climber 5 is a huge example of this. I played C5 after seeing everyone harp about it, and found the game to be hard, uninteresting, and painfully slow. VGC just seems to be better able to accept that a homebrew can be bad than the average AA-er.

[Chickybaby]

Perhaps its more of an understanding and appreciation for the difficulty of creating a game from scratch especially with limitied funds and time and many as homebrewers for the first time? Everyone also has their own tastes but since many authors ask for imput from the community, it's not a surprising the community likes what they play. Considering Albert was openly collecting game reviews perhaps you should take up the choices available and your thoughts on their bias with the Admin of the site?

And, I'd suggest if you're not happy with others efforts that You do better then and create your perfect game.

 

I usually go by the reviews that are right here as part of the AA store by people who have purchased the game. They seems pretty objective and fair.

 

 

Actually, most AA Store reviews are written by fanboys who are so happy to have a new game for their system that they always give them a 5, regardless of quality. Climber 5 is a huge example of this. I played C5 after seeing everyone harp about it, and found the game to be hard, uninteresting, and painfully slow. VGC just seems to be better able to accept that a homebrew can be bad than the average AA-er.

[+Psionic]

Perhaps its more of an understanding and appreciation for the difficulty of creating a game from scratch especially with limitied funds and time and many as homebrewers for the first time?

I dunno....should the circumstances of a game's development be taken into account when doing any objective review of any game? (Along those lines, are you aware of the conditions under which the much-maligned Mythicon games were developed?)

 

Programmers back in the day faced just as many challenges in developing games back then as homebrew programmers do today (if not more), yet no one feels bad about trashing lousy games from back then. On the other hand, it's very rare that any homebrews receive any negative feedback and modern homebrews are often lauded by individuals who wonder why they couldn't program "awesome games" like this years ago.

 

While in some ways you may be right to say it's not fair to hold modern homebrews to the same standards as old the games, in a sense it's hard not to. For the most part, the only obstacles that modern homebrewers face are the limitations they put on themselves. They don't have to face company deadlines or total lack of creative control over the project they're working on (which were major obstacles in game development back then). They have better dev tools today, and pretty much unlimited time and unlimited memory to work with. So in that sense, it is hard not to hold the modern games to high standards.

 

That said, I have no idea if this game deserves the criticism it received, as I've never played it. My comments are simply intended as general food for thought.

[Chickybaby]

I understand your points completely Pingvin.

[Atariboy]

While I haven't played it and I think it's great that people are programming homebrews, I really don't see why that should have any bearing on a review.

 

Perhaps its more of an understanding and appreciation for the difficulty of creating a game from scratch especially with limitied funds and time and many as homebrewers for the first time?

 

I can see how that can make someone be more forgiving towards their opinion of a game. But frankly, I'd rather see a reviewer grade a game on it's merits as a game.

[Greg2600]

VGC is sometimes surprising in his grades, because he doesn't give long winded explanations. That said, I've found his most critical factor in grading is game play. Also, couple times he gives a bad grade, and people scream at him on his forum, and he reviews it again, admitting he was wrong.

 

As for this and other 7800 games, homebrew or not, well....you have to want to like the 7800 to like it. It's not the NES or the SMS, both of which are superior in almost every way. I think many 7800 fans get really carried away with it. It's a nice little, inexpensive system, with a lot of flaws. In terms of home brews, remember the Ken Siders and Bob DeCrescenzo games are outstanding, but they recreated existing games. Theirs are great programming achievements, but the games themselves were designed and created long ago by the arcade masters.

 

So with that out of the way, I've tried Wasp a few times on MESS. Given that the 7800 non-Pokey sound is horrible, can't say anything about the sound. The control is excellent, and the graphics are very good. Which is what VGC said. I do agree with him the game is far too repetitive, and the difficulty doesn't get ramped up enough. I don't like that you can't shoot the wasps. I would give it a C+ or B- considering it is a homebrew. Not an F. I'd give a large number of 7800 games a D or F easy, this is better than them. Frankly, since this is one of the few original 7800 homebrews anyone has ever done, it deserves a better grade than that. His other 7800 grades are pretty agreeable to me.

 

The Wasp binary is here, if you want to play it on an emu.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Greg2600

[4Ks]

Perhaps its more of an understanding and appreciation for the difficulty of creating a game from scratch especially with limitied funds and time and many as homebrewers for the first time? Everyone also has their own tastes but since many authors ask for imput from the community, it's not a surprising the community likes what they play. Considering Albert was openly collecting game reviews perhaps you should take up the choices available and your thoughts on their bias with the Admin of the site?

And, I'd suggest if you're not happy with others efforts that You do better then and create your perfect game.

 

I usually go by the reviews that are right here as part of the AA store by people who have purchased the game. They seems pretty objective and fair.

 

 

Actually, most AA Store reviews are written by fanboys who are so happy to have a new game for their system that they always give them a 5, regardless of quality. Climber 5 is a huge example of this. I played C5 after seeing everyone harp about it, and found the game to be hard, uninteresting, and painfully slow. VGC just seems to be better able to accept that a homebrew can be bad than the average AA-er.

 

 

I'm not saying homebrew games are bad games, I'm just saying that not every 'brew is as amazing as people make them out to be.

[4Ks]

Ok, I just played Wasp! on my prosystem emulator, and I have to say I agree with the VGC. One thing that could have been done to make the game more interesting and hard would be to have one big swarm of wasps patrol around the screen, since all the wasps just clump together anyway. Also, the graphics need a bit of polish. The character sprites look good, but the playing field itself is very bland. It would look much better if the floor was colored in to look like a grassy meadow (and a big tree with a hive in the middle would look fantastic). But above all, the game just isn't very fun. The difficulty doesn't seem to ramp very much, if at all, and the assigned task of collecting mushrooms isn't very original or fun.

 

But maybe someday we'll se a Wasp 2 with more polished gameplay, more lively graphics, and more original design. Actually, that would be awesome (hint, hint).

[Shawn]

If compaired to the other offerings on the 7800 (new or old) with a game like Pacman being an "A" and Karataka being an "F" in my honest opinion WASP! scores a solid "B" grading. The game has great graphics and is quite addictive to play. If this VGC dude isn't into this style of game so be it but it doesn't give him the authority to shit on it just cause it's not his cup of tea.

 

And he found an 8bit Atari "arcade style" game to be repetative? Really? You don't say!

[Animan]

Well, if he really feels that way about the game, he has a right to say so.

 

I never played this game, so I can't agree or disagree. I do agree with some of his reviews, but also disagree with some. In fact, I occasionally use his reviews as apart in deciding what game to get (not a good idea for some, but I have to be honest).

 

His negative reviews of the games from back in the day are equally as painful to the original programmers as the new games to their programmers. I don't think we can say this is hurtful and ignore every other negative review he's done.

 

We all are going to disagree with reviewers on certain games. Were human.

[DracIsBack]

It's on the front page.

 

It must stink, for the first 7800 homebrew in a while to be so bad (especially considering how hyped this game was.).

 

You mustn't come in this forum much, as the programmer is here on a regular basis and contributing volumes to the 7800 community.

 

VideoGameCritic is entitled to his opinion (he loves to express them as though they are 'facts') , but I definitely don't agree with him that it deserves an F. What I do think is that this was GroovyBee's early efforts and games like Apple Snaffle and the Halloween game are going to blow past this early effort.

[GroovyBee]

What VGC failed to mention was that it was the first ever arcade style game written in "C" for the 7800 using my game's development library and supporting tool set. It was also my first ever Atari 7800 homebrew game too.

 

Personally, I'm not particularly bothered about a poor grade given to the game from somebody I don't know or care about. I've had several PMs from people in the past year telling me how they or their kids like the game and that is good enough for me. Personal messages like that always make me smile and make the development effort worthwhile. I make the games that I want to play. I always have and I always will.

[Shawn]

What VGC failed to mention was that it was the first ever arcade style game written in "C" for the 7800 using my game's development library and supporting tool set. It was also my first ever Atari 7800 homebrew game too.

 

Personally, I'm not particularly bothered about a poor grade given to the game from somebody I don't know or care about. I've had several PMs from people in the past year telling me how they or their kids like the game and that is good enough for me. Personal messages like that always make me smile and make the development effort worthwhile. I make the games that I want to play. I always have and I always will.

 

 

Not to mention that IIRC you originally did WASP! as demo but it was so good that by popular demand it was brought out on a run of cartridges. I think that kinda says it all right there. This game and all your other games so far have been great Mark. VGC can take that "F" and go "F"uck himself with it as far as I'm concerned.

[ZylonBane]

You guys are just now figuring out that VGC's ratings are completely worthless? Remember, this is the same idiot who gave 7800 Robotron a C-.

[phaxda]

Ha you beat me to making this comment by a couple of minutes; I stopped reading that site after the Robotron review. This person and I are on totally different pages when it comes to evaluating games. I like Wasp. Is it a little rough around the edges and are there some things that could be improved? Sure. But it's a pretty fun game. I would give it a B- for playability and an A+ for collectibility (I am a huge fan of the label/booklet art on this game).

 

You guys are just now figuring out that VGC's ratings are completely worthless? Remember, this is the same idiot who gave 7800 Robotron a C-.

[Shawn]

Ha you beat me to making this comment by a couple of minutes; I stopped reading that site after the Robotron review. This person and I are on totally different pages when it comes to evaluating games. I like Wasp. Is it a little rough around the edges and are there some things that could be improved? Sure. But it's a pretty fun game. I would give it a B- for playability and an A+ for collectibility (I am a huge fan of the label/booklet art on this game).

 

You guys are just now figuring out that VGC's ratings are completely worthless? Remember, this is the same idiot who gave 7800 Robotron a C-.

 

 

I did the label art so I'm glad you like it

[4Ks]

Now let's not turn this into a "hater is hating" thread.