130XE differences and upgrades

[+wood_jl]

130XE #3 arrived in the mail. Successful ebay venture! It's a Taiwan model. I have a previous Taiwan and a China. I was looking at the labels.

 

#3 looks like this:

 

#1 looks like this:

 

THESE ARE BOTH TAIWAN MACHINES! Why the different labels? Too bad they don't print the serial numbers completely legible so I could estimate which came first.

 

#2 is China, and looks like this:

 

It looks like someone used a cheap-ass inkjet and then clear tape over it. Very poor quality sticker.

 

This is also the only machine that does the "extended" memory test. I'd never even seen it until I was running comparison today.

 

I was expecting to see just more rows of 16 squares. Wonder why they did it that way?

 

Somebody once told me that they could NOT perform (or easily, rather) the 320K upgrade on the Chinese model. Well, I think it's the Chinese model. It's the one with the fewer number of RAM chips. Is this confined to the Chinese model, or were there later Taiwan models with this?

 

To be honest, this makes me value the Chinese model LESS than the earlier Taiwan. The fact that they put crappy GTIA in the PAL model must be indicative of some lower standards as well. I suppose if one wants to keep a stock one (for "Antic enhanced mode" graphics) then it would be a natural to leave the Chinese one stock....since it's evidently not compatible with the Peterson upgrades? How do you people do this? Are you avoiding the Chinese model? Do your other mods work on Chinese model?

 

Thanks for any info/opinion!

[MEtalGuy66]

 

I was expecting to see just more rows of 16 squares. Wonder why they did it that way?

Because the extended ram is accessed in 4 banks of 16k..

 

Somebody once told me that they could NOT perform (or easily, rather) the 320K upgrade on the Chinese model. Well, I think it's the Chinese model. It's the one with the fewer number of RAM chips. Is this confined to the Chinese model, or were there later Taiwan models with this?

The later designed boards used the higher denisty (64k x 4) chips.. WHich factory they were made in is not necessarily relevant. Whoever told you that the "4 chip" models are harder to upgrade was thinking in terms of piggybacking 256kx1 chips (ala Scott petersen's famous Upgrade directions). Truth is, these boards are just as easy to upgrade.. You just have to understand what you are doing.

To be honest, this makes me value the Chinese model LESS than the earlier Taiwan. The fact that they put crappy GTIA in the PAL model must be indicative of some lower standards as well.

Actually, the later designed boards (4-chip models) were built alot nicer, from the standpoint of assembly quality, than some of the infamous early "16 chip" models.. The buggy GTIA has nothing to do with the build quality of the nmachine.. The chips were made in a different factory, by a different company than the PCBs, or final assemblies..

I suppose if one wants to keep a stock one (for "Antic enhanced mode" graphics) then it would be a natural to leave the Chinese one stock....since it's evidently not compatible with the Peterson upgrades? How do you people do this? Are you avoiding the Chinese model? Do your other mods work on Chinese model?

Thats a metter of preference, I suppose.. We do upgrades to the "4chip" models just like we do to any other machine.. By understanding what we are doing.. It most certainly is compatable with the Petersen Upgrades- But not by following the instructions that are meant for the "16 chip" model. Once again, there were many factories that assembled the XE line.. Where it was assembled is not indicative of major design differences. I have seen every board revision of 130xe, manufactured in many different places.. China included..

Thanks for any info/opinion!

No prob..

[+wood_jl]

...

 

Thanks, metalguy. I consider you the 130XE go-to answer man. Kind of like the Shell Answer Man (have to be old enough to remember those commercials) but not for Shell gasoline but 130XE.

 

Muchos gracias.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

On later XE's Atari used an inferior (atleast in my opinion) type of plastic, which means you can't swap case halves. So you can't mix old and new case halves. They just don't fit together.

 

sincerely

 

Mathy

[Marius]

Hello guys

 

On later XE's Atari used an inferior (atleast in my opinion) type of plastic, which means you can't swap case halves. So you can't mix old and new case halves. They just don't fit together.

 

sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Hi Mathy,

 

Same experience here, BUT... not with older or newer versions, but between different production types of XE machines. I have brandnew XE's (never used, assembled in 1988) which cases are exchangable with 1985 XE's, but the 1987 cases won't fit with the 1986 ones and so on.

 

My opinion (is personal ofcourse) is that the latest XE's (with the GOOD GTIA) are very nice machines. Good keyboard quality too.

 

I bought two months ago an ORIGINAL stock-box with 3 brandnew XE boxes in that stock BOX. Fabulous 130 XE's, brandnew! Very good computers. Only problem: the top labels are just a bit too large, so they do not fit very well.

 

Greetz.

Marius

[carmel_andrews]

So Atari did get around to releasing the 130xe with the extended memory test thing then.....never seen one over here (even though that part of the self test originated with the xegs from what someone at Atari told me)

[+wood_jl]

I bought two months ago an ORIGINAL stock-box with 3 brandnew XE boxes in that stock BOX. Fabulous 130 XE's, brandnew! Very good computers. Only problem: the top labels are just a bit too large, so they do not fit very well.

 

I have a "Taiwan" model like that. The label is a little bit too long for the recess in the case it sits in. As a result, it "bubbles up" in a spot. I pulled it loose (carefully) and it looks to be difficult to cut without creasing/damaging it.

[Mathy]

Hello Carmel

 

So Atari did get around to releasing the 130xe with the extended memory test thing then.....never seen one over here (even though that part of the self test originated with the xegs from what someone at Atari told me)

 

When you were smoking pot together? Please reread what you wrote! This is nonsense.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[flashjazzcat]

 

 

[+Stephen]

Hello Carmel

 

When you were smoking pot together? Please reread what you wrote! This is nonsense.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

You sound surprised that the post is nonsense?? The clue is in the second word of your post

[carmel_andrews]

smoking pot together

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you'd know about that wouldn't you, not that i wish to imply, infer or insinuate anything

 

 

Perhpas you need it explained to you in a form of English that even readers of the Sun Newspaper would understand, namely, That 130XE's sold in the UK in the lifespan of the XE series only ever featured the standard memory test and NOT the extended memory test as demo'd by the OP (and as mentioned that the only XE sold in the UK that featured extended memory test was the XEGS)

Edited June 24, 2010 by carmel_andrews

[flashjazzcat]

So Atari put the extended memory test in a machine (the XEGS) which never shipped with more than 64K? Weird.

Edited June 24, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[Rybags]

Got 2 XEGS machines here - might have to get them out and test the theory.

[Kr0tki]

So Atari put the extended memory test in a machine (the XEGS) which never shipped with more than 64K? Weird.

 

In 1985 Atari updated the XL's operating system (Rev.2) in order to fix a few bugs and add the extended memory test. This Revison 3 ended being installed in later 130XEs and 65XEs.

 

Then the OS got updated again for the XEGS. Now called Rev.4, it simply retained the extended memory test capability. So, actually, nothing weird here.

 

Got 2 XEGS machines here - might have to get them out and test the theory.

 

All XEGS's have OS Rev.4.

[Rybags]

Maybe we could "assume" that only the 4-chip 130XE has it then.

[flashjazzcat]

And so - more credibly - the extended memory test did not "originate" from the XEGS, but was a left-over from an earlier XE revision. The source of information at Atari was unreliable!

Edited June 24, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[Rybags]

Didn't they do a half-arsed job anyway? Those 4 extra bars represent the extended 64K, but there's nothing done about the 14K available under the OS.

[Kr0tki]

The source of information at Atari was unreliable!

Or, more probably, misinterpreted

[Rybags]

Seems the screen blanks when testing extended RAM too, although I only tested in the emulator.

 

Although a Rambo config brings it back to normal. Could be because some display elements reside in the $5000 Self-Test ROM and that needs switching out to access all the XRAM.

[jmetal88]

Hey, I've got a 130XE that does the extended test as well!

 

Question though: On my 130XE, I don't have three full rows of the smaller squares, I have two and a half. Why would that be? It's my understanding that bad ram shows up as a red square, so what significance are the missing squares?

[Rybags]

It only tests the main RAM that it thinks is present, so 2.5 rows = 40K. Hold Option to get the 48K 3 row test.

 

And like I said before, it seems it doesn't bother about the 14K which is available under the OS ROM.

[jmetal88]

It only tests the main RAM that it thinks is present, so 2.5 rows = 40K. Hold Option to get the 48K 3 row test.

 

And like I said before, it seems it doesn't bother about the 14K which is available under the OS ROM.

 

Ah! Thanks! I've done the test by holding Option before, but I guess I hadn't paid attention to the fact that the number of squares shown was different.

[MEtalGuy66]

Hahaha. This is hilarious.. I didnt know Carmel was a pothead.. I figured pot would probably do him some good..

 

Anywayze, He is right about the XEGS being the first machine to get a ROM that includes the self test that will detect and test the extended ram if present.. All but the very latest produced 130XEs do not contain this ROM.. And the XEGS, came with this version, from the beginning.. You have to remember that when the XEGS was released, the 130XE had already been being sold several years..

 

 

Never thought I'd EVER be "backing up Carmel" on something, but in this case, he is 100% correct.. I have definitely tested enough machines of both types to substantiate this..

[sloopy]

They probly made the new rev OS, and it didnt make it into the 130XE at first, because (i am guessing) they wanted to finish up pre-existing inventory...

this would make sense, as its pointless to throw out all those mask roms for something so minor...

 

sloopy.

[Rybags]

Possibly.

 

Atari had a dodgy employee from 1979 until the end that went around adding two zeroes to the end of every outsourced production order.