Atari Jaguar - Black Screen

[philexile]

Hello,

 

I recently purchased a complete Jaguar with 10 games from another forum. Unfortunately, its had issues since I purchased it.

 

Sometimes it wouldn't boot, I would be greeted with a black screen. After a few more tries, the game would eventually boot fine and any subsequent games I put in after would also boot. I did notice that after about 5 minutes or so, the games would stop booting again. Maybe it needed to be 'warmed up' ?

 

At first, I thought the games or cartridge slot were just dirty, but this doesn't seem to be the case because I noticed the 'fix' would be to hold the power button for a second or two until the Jaguar boot screen appeared. Unfortunately, now this has stopped working as well and I'm just shown the black screen.

 

I let the guy know I was having problems with it. Has anyone had any issues similar to this and know the fix or cause for that matter?

 

Thank you

Edited July 31, 2010 by philexile

[snakes3425]

Hello,

 

I recently purchased a complete Jaguar with 10 games from another forum. Unfortunately, its had issues since I purchased it.

 

Sometimes it wouldn't boot, I would be greeted with a black screen. After a few more tries, the game would eventually boot fine and any subsequent games I put in after would also boot. I did notice that after about 5 minutes or so, the games would stop booting again. Maybe it needed to be 'warmed up' ?

 

At first, I thought the games or cartridge slot were just dirty, but this doesn't seem to be the case because I noticed the 'fix' would be to hold the power button for a second or two until the Jaguar boot screen appeared. Unfortunately, now this has stopped working as well and I'm just shown the black screen.

 

I let the guy know I was having problems with it. Has anyone had any issues similar to this and know the fix or cause for that matter?

 

Thank you

 

Sounds like the Connector pins either in the games or the console are corroded or bent. You buy something form someone else over the internet there's always the chance you'll get something that hasn't been properly cared for

[philexile]

I looked at the pins, they definitely aren't bent as far as I can tell. Its possible the pins are corroded I suppose, but I'm not sure why things would work one time and not the other. Any recommendations on how to clean corrosion?

 

Any other suggestions? I have a feeling this has something to do with the power in the console, but its just a guess.

 

 

Sounds like the Connector pins either in the games or the console are corroded or bent. You buy something form someone else over the internet there's always the chance you'll get something that hasn't been properly cared for

[philexile]

Actually, looking at this closely shows there isn't any visible corrosion.

 

Kinda getting fed up at this point.

[Zerosquare]

There are two pins on the cartridge connector that have to be connected together (by the cartridge), otherwise the Jaguar won't boot at all : you'll get a black screen and the power LED won't light. It's possible that those two pins are flaky on your connector. In that case, if you know how to use a soldering iron, you can connect them permanently ; there is no ill effect.

 

It might also be a problem with the power supply, but it's not something I've seen before.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Zerosquare

[philexile]

Sorry, I should have noted that the Jaguar's red light does come on. Do you think this could still be the issue?

 

I'm great at soldering, but I may return this to the seller and I don't want him to think I somehow damaged the unit through tampering with it.

 

Thanks

 

 

There are two pins on the cartridge connector that have to be connected together (by the cartridge), otherwise the Jaguar won't boot at all : you'll get a black screen and the power LED won't light. It's possible that those two pins are flaky on your connector. In that case, if you know how to use a soldering iron, you can connect them permanently ; there is no ill effect.

 

It might also be a problem with the power supply, but it's not something I've seen before.

Edited July 31, 2010 by philexile

[Zerosquare]

If the LED does light up, then the cartridge and the connector aren't the problem. Even with bad contacts, you should see the Jaguar logo on a red background, not a completely black screen.

 

If you have the option of returning it to the seller, I think you should do it.

[philexile]

Ok, good to know. Glad I didn't pull out my solder station for nothing.

 

It does seem totally random as to when it boots and when it doesn't. For instance, I tried booting Tempest right before going out for a run and it worked fine. I powered it off and left the game in the console. Came back, took a shower, tried to turn the game on again and it black screened.

 

I tried cleaning the games/cart slot and that had no effect.

 

Any other ideas?

Edited August 1, 2010 by philexile

[philexile]

Here is an image of the Jag's mobo. I took it apart for the heck of it. I noticed that its been opened before. One of the screws was the incorrect size (too small) and I saw two odd things on the motherboard:

 

MY JAG:

 

- there is a blue wire on the left hand side connecting two points of the mobo

 

- there are two transistors? connected to one of the RAM? chips

 

 

A PICT OF A JAG OFF BENHECK:

 

- Note: No weird wires or

 

Edited August 1, 2010 by philexile

[Gaztee]

Here is an image of the Jag's mobo. I took it apart for the heck of it. I noticed that its been opened before. One of the screws was the incorrect size (too small) and I saw two odd things on the motherboard:

 

MY JAG:

 

- there is a blue wire on the left hand side connecting two points of the mobo

 

- there are two transistors? connected to one of the RAM? chips

 

 

A PICT OF A JAG OFF BENHECK:

 

 

- Note: No weird wires or

 

Send it back! I'm sure someone here will have a spare they could sell to you!!

[philexile]

So, I'm guessing those wires and transistors aren't a normal variation for the Jaguar?

[ovalbugmann]

Good observations! First clue is a different and non-original screw in a set of four screws that should be the same = someone's been messing around in there!

 

The transistors and blue wire; I haven't seen them on the Jaguar's I've opened up while cleaning the bottom of the cart slot opening.

 

It's possible someone was attempting a mod? or going by the fact that it has the ADC chip(analogue controller)in it, between the two long red components behind controller port #1, maybe there were a few early board fixes by IBM/JVC? Atari later got rid of the ADC chip as seen in Ben Hecks' Jaguar.

 

Yeah, light is on.. but has a black screen, try to get your money back... quickly.

Edited August 1, 2010 by ovalbugmann

[philexile]

Ya, not sure what sort of mod someone was trying to do. I would bet that they (possibly even Atari) were just trying to fix an issue cheaply and efficiently. Or not. I don't know enough about these systems unfortunately.

 

I've been in contact with the seller throughout and he has been understand. He said the system didn't exhibit this sort of behavior for him, so its possible something happened when it was shipped out. Maybe all the shaking during the trip or extreme hot/cold of travel exasperated an already existent problem.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

 

Good observations! First clue is a different and non-original screw in a set of four screws that should be the same = someone's been messing around in there!

 

The transistors and blue wire; I haven't seen them on the Jaguar's I've opened up while cleaning the bottom of the cart slot opening.

 

It's possible someone was attempting a mod? or going by the fact that it has the ADC chip(analogue controller)in it, between the two long red components behind controller port #1, maybe there were a few early board fixes by IBM/JVC? Atari later got rid of the ADC chip as seen in Ben Hecks' Jaguar.

 

Yeah, light is on.. but has a black screen, try to get your money back... quickly.

[Tyrant]

So, I'm guessing those wires and transistors aren't a normal variation for the Jaguar?

 

One of my Jaguars has those mods, and I'm pretty certain they're done by Atari, as the Jag in question came with my alpine. Similarly, it's an early model (K series), and has the ADC chips. I'm not sure why the caps are over the ram like that, or why they're only over one bank of it. I believe my stub-jag also has the small fixup wire, but without opening it up I can't be sure.

 

As for your black-screen issue, could it be as simple as the A/V cable not making contact properly? You didn't mention what you're using, but I sometimes get the same kind of intermittent video-loss with my scart cable, when the edge connector isn't properly secured (or there is stress pulling it to an angle). While Jaguar's RF modulators are notoriously bad, if the problem is fixed by using RF, you might want to look into cleaning the A/V contacts.

[philexile]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your response. I've had this issue with the RF converter as well. I also tried an S-Vid and SCART adapter which I purchased off eBay shortly after buying this bundle. Unfortunately, the issue is the same across the board.

 

I also won your rotary controller, which I broke the bank on. It worked great this afternoon when I briefly had Tempest up and running....

 

Any other ideas?

 

So, I'm guessing those wires and transistors aren't a normal variation for the Jaguar?

 

One of my Jaguars has those mods, and I'm pretty certain they're done by Atari, as the Jag in question came with my alpine. Similarly, it's an early model (K series), and has the ADC chips. I'm not sure why the caps are over the ram like that, or why they're only over one bank of it. I believe my stub-jag also has the small fixup wire, but without opening it up I can't be sure.

 

As for your black-screen issue, could it be as simple as the A/V cable not making contact properly? You didn't mention what you're using, but I sometimes get the same kind of intermittent video-loss with my scart cable, when the edge connector isn't properly secured (or there is stress pulling it to an angle). While Jaguar's RF modulators are notoriously bad, if the problem is fixed by using RF, you might want to look into cleaning the A/V contacts.

Edited August 1, 2010 by philexile

[ovalbugmann]

Ahh!!, you were the one I was bidding against on Tyrants' Rotary auction in the last seconds!, I was mad I lost, because he said it was probably his last one , but I sure did learn my lesson on that one about how to win things on ebay and have adopted new strategies.

 

Yes, I agree the blue wire & 2 caps do look like the manufacturer's handiwork and not a mod, as I guessed at earlier. Yes, if it's not a simple video connection loss somewhere then there's nothing you can do with a black screen or intermittant operation unless serious troubleshooting of the system is done or you hit upon the problem. So you may only have one choice, but to get a refund. Good thing you have a friendly seller, I have bought one Jaguar before that had a black screen and no LED light with cart in and turned on. It has a few top ruptured Electroytic Capacitors on the MoBo and some outside edge trace water/condensation damage on the underside of the board. I still have it, but have not fixed it yet, as the seller was not friendy and accepting returns.

[Tyrant]

I also won your rotary controller, which I broke the bank on. It worked great this afternoon when I briefly had Tempest up and running....

 

Any other ideas?

 

I'm afraid not, the only other issues I've had with jaguars doing that involve dev kits and power running the wrong way into the system, which isn't the case with your system obviously.

 

Congratulations on winning the rotary, I hope you get a working Jaguar soon to be able to use it with.

[philexile]

I'm sure he'll make more, right Tyrant?

 

It would be awesome if somehow I could get a micro-controller programmed to make it work with an original Xbox and its MAME emulator, CoinOps. Currently, you have to use the R/L trigger buttons to simulate the spinner movement.

 

Ya, I'm going to ask the seller what he wants to do. I was thinking of trying to heat up the solder points under the cartridge slot, to see if its a faulty solder point, but from what your saying, I don't think I'll waste my time with it. It could be some bad cap on the board for all I know.

 

Any suggestions on where I can get a working 'core' system and how much they generally go for?

 

Also, are there any flash carts available? I would like to get one for homebrew or games that are too expensive to buy, like Battlesphere.

 

Thanks again for the help.

Edited August 1, 2010 by philexile

[ovalbugmann]

I have bought a few, Jaguar base units on ebay for about $20-$35 apiece but when they are sold with just the base unit it can be hard for both parties to tell if it's working. Like I said above I did run into one non-working unit out of maybe 4-5 units I bought system only. So try ebay.

 

As far as the Jaguar flash carts they are expensive, the original Atari flashcarts go for $200-$300. But there was a few batches of the Skunkboard released and they are going for about $200 nowadays(either version), since they are out of production. They originally sold for about $85.00. Other than that you can run binaries with an Alpine or other Jag dev systems, or just use the "BJL" system. Also there is the new "ULS" system which can put a single load binary on a CD and burn it readily encrypted, one game per CD though. I am not sure if ROM/ABS files can run through the ULS CD system - just check their site: http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/reboot/web/index.html Check the for sale forums here on atariage & jaguarsector regularly because that is where most of the awesome Skunkboards are sold. Also keep an eye out for something called the JaguarCF it is possible it could maybe appear in the future.

Edited August 1, 2010 by ovalbugmann

[Tyrant]

I'm sure he'll make more, right Tyrant?

I'm afraid not, or at least it's not very likely. I did find a few new controllers I could modify, but only a few (like 5 or 6) and as far as I can tell, they've stopped selling the encoders I used to use, so I would have to find a new source of them. In short it's possible, but unlikely.

 

It would be awesome if somehow I could get a micro-controller programmed to make it work with an original Xbox and its MAME emulator, CoinOps. Currently, you have to use the R/L trigger buttons to simulate the spinner movement.

Hmm... The shoulder buttons on an xbox pad (which connects via usb) I believe transmits some kind of encoded analogue value. Your best bet would be to get the maintainer of your emulator to write an option to use the original mame grey-code drivers on one of the digital button inputs, then just hack up an xbox pad. You would probably have to modify the jag rotary too though which would be awkward (most controllers use one common or 'ground' plane, the jag uses four of them, which complicates things no end).

 

Also, are there any flash carts available? I would like to get one for homebrew or games that are too expensive to buy, like Battlesphere.

or just use the "BJL" system. Also there is the new "ULS" system which can put a single load binary on a CD and burn it readily encrypted, one game per CD though. I am not sure if ROM/ABS files can run through the ULS CD system

Both BJL and ULS (as well as the ancient JaguarServer and jugs systems) only allow games to run which are limited to running entirely in RAM. To play cartridge games, you must use something that emulates a cartridge and provides the two or four megabytes of storage it should have. The Atari Flash cart, an alpine board, skunkboard, ethernet card, or cf cart will all do the job, if you can get hold of one. I believe Battlesphere is a 4Mb game though, so a 2Mb alpine wouldn't be able to hold it.

[philexile]

I'm afraid not, or at least it's not very likely. I did find a few new controllers I could modify, but only a few (like 5 or 6) and as far as I can tell, they've stopped selling the encoders I used to use, so I would have to find a new source of them. In short it's possible, but unlikely.

 

Oh, I didn't know that. Let me know if you want me to check around stateside. I work in NY, so there are a lot of shops around here that may have obscure components.

 

Hmm... The shoulder buttons on an xbox pad (which connects via usb) I believe transmits some kind of encoded analogue value. Your best bet would be to get the maintainer of your emulator to write an option to use the original mame grey-code drivers on one of the digital button inputs, then just hack up an xbox pad. You would probably have to modify the jag rotary too though which would be awkward (most controllers use one common or 'ground' plane, the jag uses four of them, which complicates things no end).

 

Ha, four? That's pretty crazy. Atari never did anything simply did they?

 

I actually did hack up two Xbox pads, one with a DB-15 female end, one with a DB-25. Each of the pin-points were wired to a button on the controller: A, B, X, Start, etc. I was then able to mod the original emulator controllers (SNES, NES, MD, etc) to work with the Xbox since the controller was acting as a piggy-back of sorts. I even was able to mod a 5200 controller to work, analog and all. This was a major hack job though and its why I also modded a controller with a DB-25 in. I eventually am going to post a how-I-did on here for Madmab complete with picts. I think 75% of the internals were replaced to get it to work.

 

Anyway, maybe I should just build my own spinner controller (box like) to work with the Xbox in this way? How do those things transmit the signal? The Xbox (and MAME for Xbox, CoinOps) can accept mouse input. I'm able to use the trackball on the X-Arcade in games like Crystal Castles.

 

Also, are there any flash carts available? I would like to get one for homebrew or games that are too expensive to buy, like Battlesphere.

or just use the "BJL" system. Also there is the new "ULS" system which can put a single load binary on a CD and burn it readily encrypted, one game per CD though. I am not sure if ROM/ABS files can run through the ULS CD system

Both BJL and ULS (as well as the ancient JaguarServer and jugs systems) only allow games to run which are limited to running entirely in RAM. To play cartridge games, you must use something that emulates a cartridge and provides the two or four megabytes of storage it should have. The Atari Flash cart, an alpine board, skunkboard, ethernet card, or cf cart will all do the job, if you can get hold of one. I believe Battlesphere is a 4Mb game though, so a 2Mb alpine wouldn't be able to hold it.

 

Great, I'll keep my eyes open for a 4mb flashcart. I don't want to deal with too complex a setup. From what I've seen the Jaguar CD is really buggy and I'm not sure if there are any really great games that would be worth the hassle. Correct me if I'm wrong!

 

Thanks again for the support!

Edited August 1, 2010 by philexile

[philexile]

I've been messing with the Jaguar for a bit and I've found that if I take the game out 5-6 times, it eventually boots up and then any game I insert after that point works. I'm guessing something gets 'wiggled' into place.

 

I don't know much about these systems, but I'm wondering if its a bad solder point on the cart slot? I wanted to ask your opinions on this since you guys have worked with these systems a lot more than I have.

[Zerosquare]

most controllers use one common or 'ground' plane, the jag uses four of them, which complicates things no end

Not really

It uses X/Y encoding scheme, which is common when there are a lot of buttons. Otherwise, the joypad connector would have needed a lot more wires.

 

Also, are there any flash carts available? I would like to get one for homebrew or games that are too expensive to buy, like Battlesphere.

Oh boy. A piece of advice : don't even talk about duplicating commercial games, especially Battlesphere. You've got no idea of what you're getting into. (Search older topics to see what I mean).

[philexile]

Gotcha. Sorry about that.

 

Any thoughts on my hardware question?

[Zerosquare]

First, I still recommend returning it if you can, as it's the easiest solution.

 

As I said above, it's probably not the cartridge connections. If I'd have to venture a guess, I'd say that something is wrong with the reset circuitry. C42 (a capacitor) sets the length of the reset pulse ; while it is active, the screen stays black, afterwards it starts booting. Check if there are no bad solder joints or bad components in the vicinity.

 

You can find a complete schematic of the Jaguar here, and the location of the reset circuit on that page explaining how to add a reset switch.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Zerosquare