Madaracs Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) I thought the NES got test marketed in the US in 85, not 86. At leas that's what I seem to remember. Tempest It had a limited test market in the New York area in Christmas '85, which did not go well. The reports on the test marketing from January '86 CES stated retailers in NY considered it a failure. Likewise, that's not a mass marketing, that did not occur until the national launch in the second half of '86 as stated. As you stated, which I certainly agree with, "a limited test run doesn't count as being released in my book". Think you might have misread his question... Madaracs - Good catch. Matt - yes, the NES was test marketed in '86 as well. After the '85 New York one there was an Feb '86 Los Angeles testing, and then a slow transition to testing in a few other major cities (Chicago, etc.) leading up to the national launch. This thread has inspired me to read Kent's "The First Quarter." I began reading it tonight. It's chock full of goodness. Edited August 9, 2010 by Madaracs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 This thread has inspired me to read Kent's "The First Quarter." I began reading it tonight. It's chock full of goodness. There's a lot of good stuff in there with regards to direct quotes and personal stories, unforunately its sandwiched in between a lot of bad/poorly researched/erroneous info. Stuff like claiming Atari Coin and Consumer were connected buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 This thread has inspired me to read Kent's "The First Quarter." I began reading it tonight. It's chock full of goodness. There's a lot of good stuff in there with regards to direct quotes and personal stories, unforunately its sandwiched in between a lot of bad/poorly researched/erroneous info. Stuff like claiming Atari Coin and Consumer were connected buildings. What are you?! (To which I fully expect a certain 1989 Tim Burton movie quotation response...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 What are you?! (To which I fully expect a certain 1989 Tim Burton movie quotation response...). Let me guess ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9G18qHPhcM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yes, Matt's mistaken unless he's talking about how it played out on the market rather then the intent of its release Matt's knocked it out of the park so many times with www.atariprotos.com that I can live with him mixing up the many, many details in his head on Atari History. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 What are you?! (To which I fully expect a certain 1989 Tim Burton movie quotation response...). Let me guess ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9G18qHPhcM . Ding ding ding! *points to nose - points to you* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yes, Matt's mistaken unless he's talking about how it played out on the market rather then the intent of its release Matt's knocked it out of the park so many times with www.atariprotos.com that I can live with him mixing up the many, many details in his head on Atari History. The 7800/NES/SMS love triangle was never my thing so I'm sure I do have facts mixed up. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES, the NES is what drove Tramiel and company to release the 7800 after shelving it. Nope, completely wrong. And I had already been corrected on that one. ... until after the NES juggernaut had been established. The NES did not become a "jauggernaut" until after the National launch and Christmas season, and the 7800 was clearly nationaly available at the same time as the NES started their national launch. So I'm not sure about the logic of that statement. Fair enough. Obviously I'm not as detailed on the history as you are, and I mean that as a compliment. All told, I still believe calling the 7800 an answer to the NES is not inaccurate. Maybe the XEGS was more of a direct "answer" to the NES than the 7800 was meant to be, but the 7800 was still a competitor and contemporary to the NES, which is all the original statement was meant to imply (I think; trying not to speak for Albert here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Engineer Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Current description is not accurate and is to ambiguous. Should read "The Atari 7800 came out after the 5200. It has a black, textured plastic case." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 And I had already been corrected on that one. Sorry, was just going through the posts sequentially and didn't see that until later. Maybe the XEGS was more of a direct "answer" to the NES than the 7800 was meant to be, but the 7800 was still a competitor and contemporary to the NES, which is all the original statement was meant to imply (I think; trying not to speak for Albert here). From what Katz told me, the release of the XEGS had nothing to do with the NES either - and of course he was totally against the release of it as well. Jack just wanted to do it to broaden the market by getting people who wanted a "beginning computer" and "sophisticated game console". I.E. a good value "2 in 1" system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 ...is to ambiguous... Quick, Robin! To the Ambiguous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAtarian Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) I thought the NES got test marketed in the US in 85, not 86. At leas that's what I seem to remember. Tempest It had a limited test market in the New York area in Christmas '85, which did not go well. The reports on the test marketing from January '86 CES stated retailers in NY considered it a failure. Likewise, that's not a mass marketing, that did not occur until the national launch in the second half of '86 as stated. As you stated, which I certainly agree with, "a limited test run doesn't count as being released in my book". Think you might have misread his question... Madaracs - Good catch. Matt - yes, the NES was test marketed in '86 as well. After the '85 New York one there was an Feb '86 Los Angeles testing, and then a slow transition to testing in a few other major cities (Chicago, etc.) leading up to the national launch. According to Gamespy, the national launch was in Feb 86 so when was this LA test launch of yours? "After test-marketing in the New York City area in late fall, the system was released nationwide in February, 1986." Edited September 25, 2010 by OldAtarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) "After test-marketing in the New York City area in late fall, the system was released nationwide in February, 1986." Which is wrong, that area hasn't been updated in ages. The February test marketing is more than well documented in various resources including direct interviews in Kent's Ultimate History of Video Games. The National Launch for the NES did not occur until September 1986 (though it was original announced at the June '86 CES for August). Edited September 25, 2010 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) XEGS shouldn't have happened (that's coming from an A8 user), only reason why it came out in europe/uk before the 7800 is because Atari UK's research convinced the US parent that the UK/Euro mkts were predominantly tape or disk driven (even sega were finding it hard getting support for their games system during that period), perhaps tramiel should have learnt from the whole 'max/ultimax' affair from his commodore days (obviously tramiel does'nt learn from his mistakes) After all why is it you didn't see/hear sega or nintendo actually releasing keyboards as addons/accessories for their games systems, probably because they could see the market (especially in the US) didn't warrant it and wasnt asking for it I think the only other games system that had a keyboard component released for it after the XEGS was the Dreamcast (i believe i actually saw one) anyone care to remind me what happened to the DC (compared to the psx/ps2 etc) Edited September 25, 2010 by carmel_andrews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 I think the only other games system that had a keyboard component released for it after the XEGS was the Dreamcast (i believe i actually saw one) I have one. It's very much an accessory for things like web browsing, but not something games call upon ... which is different than the XEGS. anyone care to remind me what happened to the DC (compared to the psx/ps2 etc) Dreamcast is an odd one in history. While it is remembered as a bomb, it sold over 10 million units, had over 200 games (including several 'million sellers') and had a killer lineup of titles. The thing had Soul Calibur at launch. The problem with the Dreamcast was that Sega couldn't afford to be in the hardware console business anymore. The market had shifted. In previous generations, consoles broke even or made a small profit and games made money. During that era of consoles, the consoles bled money for a quite a while until they reached a certain critical mass. On top of that, games started to become blockbusters in terms of size and budget. This meant that many games also bled a pile of money and it took key hits to make up the difference. Due to the debacles of the years before Dreamcast, Sega couldn't afford this model. Sony was a cash rich hype machine; Nintendo was bolstered by franchises and handhelds; and Microsoft was quite literally ready to spend four billion more than they earned with XBox to break into the space. The Dreamcast sold well enough but did not hit the critical mass in the new model fast enough. And so, the plug was pulled in two or so years - even though 10 million units sold. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/gamesinterviews.microsoft1 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/playstation.microsoft 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 During that era of consoles, the consoles bled money for a quite a while until they reached a certain critical mass. On top of that, games started to become blockbusters in terms of size and budget. This is still echoed today. The Xbox 360 was not profitable when it was released. One could argue that it still might not be with amount of warranty repair work performed on a large percentage of units even today. They make their money on Xbox live and game sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 During that era of consoles, the consoles bled money for a quite a while until they reached a certain critical mass. On top of that, games started to become blockbusters in terms of size and budget. This is still echoed today. The Xbox 360 was not profitable when it was released. One could argue that it still might not be with amount of warranty repair work performed on a large percentage of units even today. They make their money on Xbox live and game sales. Why single out the 360? The PS3 is similar. In fact just about every console between "that era" and the current gen are similar with the exception of Nintendo consoles. Nintendo prices them to make profit from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 During that era of consoles, the consoles bled money for a quite a while until they reached a certain critical mass. On top of that, games started to become blockbusters in terms of size and budget. This is still echoed today. The Xbox 360 was not profitable when it was released. One could argue that it still might not be with amount of warranty repair work performed on a large percentage of units even today. They make their money on Xbox live and game sales. Why single out the 360? The PS3 is similar. In fact just about every console between "that era" and the current gen are similar with the exception of Nintendo consoles. Nintendo prices them to make profit from the get go. I don't dispute that nor did I mean to single out a single console. I agree! The 360 is the most popular console behind the Wii and had the largest margin of loss upon launch so I used it as an example. It just was an example. You must chill. I have hidden your keys. To add to your comment, Nintendo doesn't just price them right... they also designed the unit to make money off the bat. No DVD support means less work on the drive, no HD means they can stick with cheaper standard architecture for video, it also has a much smaller footprint. And with the Broadway CPU allegedly derived from the same architecture as the 'Cubes Gekko chip--the cost of the new CPU was probably less to create than both the PS3 and the 360. Nintendo was also smart to focus on game play and the family/everyone/casual gaming demographic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) ALL RIGHT!!! You guys got your wish, and the description of the 7800 has been changed. I liked the old description, didn't necessarily care whether or not it was "accurate" nor see the relevance of the criticism, and was just glad the forum was provided. Edited October 4, 2010 by wood_jl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 ALL RIGHT!!! You guys got your wish, and the description of the 7800 has been changed. I liked the old description, didn't necessarily care whether or not it was "accurate" nor see the relevance of the criticism, and was just glad the forum was provided. Old news ... that description was changed two months ago. I didn't have any particular problem with the old description, but I'd still like it better if one of the new suggestions (such as my most recent one) were used instead. No need for the 7800 forum to be stuck with an unusually terse description just because a few persnickety individuals couldn't agree on which console was released first, or on what was done by whom in response to what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) ALL RIGHT!!! You guys got your wish, and the description of the 7800 has been changed. I liked the old description, didn't necessarily care whether or not it was "accurate" nor see the relevance of the criticism, and was just glad the forum was provided. Old news ... that description was changed two months ago. I didn't have any particular problem with the old description, but I'd still like it better if one of the new suggestions (such as my most recent one) were used instead. No need for the 7800 forum to be stuck with an unusually terse description just because a few persnickety individuals couldn't agree on which console was released first, or on what was done by whom in response to what. I'll echo in agreement once again... I like that one best too. I think the current title description is to make a point that AA isn't a democracy. Point taken... but I like the description jaybird3rd noted. Edited October 4, 2010 by Madaracs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I'll echo in agreement once again... I like that one best too. I think the current title description is to make a point that AA isn't a democracy. Point taken... but I like the description jaybird3rd noted. It seems that our wish has been granted! Thanks, Albert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaracs Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 I'll echo in agreement once again... I like that one best too. I think the current title description is to make a point that AA isn't a democracy. Point taken... but I like the description jaybird3rd noted. It seems that our wish has been granted! Thanks, Albert! Totally! Thanks, Albert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Simplified controllers!?! I think the 7800 controllers are much worse than the... J/K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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