Sony's plan for backwards compatibility?

[AtariLeaf]

It was never a big deal to me since i rarely use my 7800's for 2600 gaming. If I was a modern gamer, I doubt I'd be concerned about backwards compatibility as I'd just keep the PS2's and PS1's around for said games.

[TheGameCollector]

Also it's not really that hard to go on ebay or craigslist and find an older hardware BC PS3 model. At least nowadays some people know there is a market for the convenience of owning one. Some people might think of it as a better deal to buy a PS3 slim with a huge hard drive and a cheap PS2, then go sell their 60GB unit to someone who is desperate for that particular model.

 

I bought a 60GB model when it was new and I am glad I did it when I did because I liked PS2 a lot and it still enables me to play the few newer games I think I would enjoy. The selling point for me was mainly not having to use those tiny PS1 and PS2 memory cards anymore. Trying to remember what card your saves for a particular game was on was annoying.

Edited November 8, 2010 by TheGameCollector

[OldAtarian]

Also it's not really that hard to go on ebay or craigslist and find an older hardware BC PS3 model. At least nowadays some people know there is a market for the convenience of owning one. Some people might think of it as a better deal to buy a PS3 slim with a huge hard drive and a cheap PS2, then go sell their 60GB unit to someone who is desperate for that particular model.

 

I bought a 60GB model when it was new and I am glad I did it when I did because I liked PS2 a lot and it still enables me to play the few newer games I think I would enjoy. The selling point for me was mainly not having to use those tiny PS1 and PS2 memory cards anymore. Trying to remember what card your saves for a particular game was on was annoying.

 

Why not just upgrade the hard drive in the 60gb model and have both BC and a huge hard drive?

[Lendorien]

Why not just upgrade the hard drive in the 60gb model and have both BC and a huge hard drive?

 

 

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

[+wood_jl]

The trouble with having bought a new 60GB is having paid $600 (a completely laughable sum for a console) for it. The trouble with buying a used one is the risk of paying (still) too much for something questionable. Looks like contending with PS2 clutter is the answer.

[TheGameCollector]

The trouble with having bought a new 60GB is having paid $600 (a completely laughable sum for a console) for it. The trouble with buying a used one is the risk of paying (still) too much for something questionable. Looks like contending with PS2 clutter is the answer.

 

When I bought the 60GB unit new, they had already reduced its price to $499 US dollars. I think it was just before the 80GB units started coming out. Also back then I had no rent to pay and had a good paying job so I could afford it, and a Wii and an Xbox 360 and a PSP and a DS...and retro consoles one after the other, and the full Dragon Ball franchise episodes set before they started remastering them. I miss those days and wished they lasted longer. If I can get a new job, those days will return because I live where I did back then too. I never did get my hands on a Commodore Amiga.

[Mendon]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

[Mord]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Another thing to consider when handing things over to Sony to repair is that they'll reflash the bios to the latest version even if there was nothing wrong with it. If you were trying to retain some of the removed features on your unit, they'll be gone when you get it back. The US government was quite annoyed to have their OtherOS capable machines returned useless for their purposes for instance.

[godslabrat]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Another thing to consider when handing things over to Sony to repair is that they'll reflash the bios to the latest version even if there was nothing wrong with it. If you were trying to retain some of the removed features on your unit, they'll be gone when you get it back. The US government was quite annoyed to have their OtherOS capable machines returned useless for their purposes for instance.

 

Hmm... so if I just did the latest software upgrade, I've likely lost my Xubuntu install? I haven't checked it in a few weeks. That sucks, I thought Sony was going to allow the existing OtherOS units to remain intact. But then, we also thought they'd support the PS2.

[OldAtarian]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Edited November 9, 2010 by OldAtarian

[CRTGAMER]

I think Sony will push backwards compatibility only if there is a profit. That will happen as PS2 game downloads like the current PSN PS1 games. A 4gb or even a 8gb download not very feasible though. Point is moot to me, I'll stick with a Fat PS2 with convenience of HDAdvance/HDLoader.

[Cliff Friedel]

To me, it's not the fact that they are remastering games that bothers me, it's the constant flip-flopping of having BC and not having it that does. If it is too expensive, offer two models and charge different prices for them. The technology is there.

 

The real problem is that Sony and other manufacturers don't make any money from places reselling games, so they don't support methods for BC unless they do. The only good side to it is we get remakes that support more features, get a facelift, and possibly correct issues that were in the original. So, with that in mind, I think it is hit and miss with what they are doing. They will make money, but maybe not as much as they would doing what I suggested above.

[Video]

Here's a thought: Isn't HD-remastering of older titles a bit like the re-re-releases of classic arcade games in the classic era? Is Sony remastering a game in HD like Atari "upgrading" a 2600 game to 5200 or 7800 graphics?

Yeah, notice that that practice eventually killed Atari too.

[SlowCoder]

I have a PS2,PS3, and a PSP. All started with the PS1. I've been a Sony guy. I don't appreciate MS's business practices. But the difference in business practice between companies like MS and Sony are blurring very fast. Pretty soon I'll tell them both what they can do with their consoles.

 

What gets to me is not so much whether bc is part of a system, but that a particular company includes it, then takes it away. This is not limited to backward compatibility, though. Sony used to allow 3rd party OS installation on their console. Many people utilized it to add functionality to their console, such as a Linux OS. In a recent update they removed that capability under the excuse that it was a security vulnerability.

 

Well, damnit. I call bullshit. Merely connecting your PS3 to the internet represents a "potential" security risk.

 

Some people were using it to install emulators on which they could play their old games. I'm guessing Sony didn't like that because it could potentially cut into their bottom dollar. So they decided it best to screw their customers.

[atarian63]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

[moycon]

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

Studies have shown the early Sony PS3s had an estimated 10% failure rate in the first 2 years. (Compared to a 2.7% failure rate for Wii.)

Granted the early 360 were more than twice as likely to fail in the first 2 years than a PS3, your statement that a Sony rarely dies is as usual...wrong. This sucks for owners of an original 60GB BC model like myself.

[madmax2069]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

tell that to the people that own a slim PS3 that already got the YLoD, and to the people with phat PS3s that have had the YLoD, the old PS3s are starting to drop like flies. My friend is in that boat right now with his slim PS3. the PS3 is more reliable in the first few years then after that they start dropping. the 360 isn't as reliable in the first few years (if one makes it that far), its mainly the newer models that do.

 

the 360 started to get allot more reliable when the falcon model came out, and it got allot better when the jasper model came out ( i own a jasper 360), so far 9 months strong. its to early to know anything about the new 360 (although it has had some issues with faulty power bricks).

Edited November 11, 2010 by madmax2069

[Mendon]

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

Or the short warranty is offered because the manufacturer has no confidence in the product. If Sony performs the repair themselves and will only warranty that repair for 90 days and will not offer an extended warranty on that repair, what does that policy tell a consumer?

 

Why, if Sony products are so reliable, then they should be happy as hell to take money from consumers for an extended warranty as they will make a nice profit knowing that consumers will almost never redeem that warranty on their almost fail-proof product.

 

Speaking for myself, between the forced removal of console features I paid for, a leap year glitch that renders my console unplayable, refund policies on misrepresented software descriptions (starring at you, Final Fight), changing consumer contracts after receiving funds (Playstation Plus going from being updated weekly to twice a month), and not standing behind repairs that they themselves make, Sony has sunk to the bottom of the pile when it comes to consumer friendly corporations.

 

 

Mendon

Edited November 11, 2010 by Mendon

[cimerians]

Speaking for myself, between the forced removal of console features I paid for, a leap year glitch that renders my console unplayable, refund policies on misrepresented software descriptions (starring at you, Final Fight), changing consumer contracts after receiving funds (Playstation Plus going from being updated weekly to twice a month), and not standing behind repairs that they themselves make, Sony has sunk to the bottom of the pile when it comes to consumer friendly corporations.

 

Mendon

 

 

Count me in. I won't forget what Capcom pulled (and Sony simply turned a blind eye). That problem and the date bug issue was the worst thing I've ever seen. It was crazy.

 

I've been reading that some dev's\publishers are annoyed with Microsoft for being too strict with policies...but at least its there in black and white! No grey area bullcrap like what happened with Sony.

 

Is it really hard for Sony to send each publisher a birthday card like - Publishers: "NO YOU CAN'T SNEAK DRM INTO THE GAME UNLESS WE APPROVE IT".

 

I mean is the approval board that messy at Sony that publishers just do whatever they want? (Yeah I remember the WipeOut HD State Farm Ad as well!!)

 

In the end, I still enjoy my PS3 and XBox 360. I love modern gaming as well as the classics. It just sucks sometimes that these things happen.

[atarian63]

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

Studies have shown the early Sony PS3s had an estimated 10% failure rate in the first 2 years. (Compared to a 2.7% failure rate for Wii.)

Granted the early 360 were more than twice as likely to fail in the first 2 years than a PS3, your statement that a Sony rarely dies is as usual...wrong. This sucks for owners of an original 60GB BC model like myself.

As usual you are wrong, not to mention that sales of the 360 are ALL 360's including thos who have had to replace them out of warranty or just didnt bother. reliabity is not Microsofts game.

[atarian63]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

tell that to the people that own a slim PS3 that already got the YLoD, and to the people with phat PS3s that have had the YLoD, the old PS3s are starting to drop like flies. My friend is in that boat right now with his slim PS3. the PS3 is more reliable in the first few years then after that they start dropping. the 360 isn't as reliable in the first few years (if one makes it that far), its mainly the newer models that do.

 

the 360 started to get allot more reliable when the falcon model came out, and it got allot better when the jasper model came out ( i own a jasper 360), so far 9 months strong. its to early to know anything about the new 360 (although it has had some issues with faulty power bricks).

no it's not too early on Jasper, as I mentioned in another post I hand asset dispostion for a major retailer, they have told me that though improved alot the newer 360 still has a fairly high return rate.

[madmax2069]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

tell that to the people that own a slim PS3 that already got the YLoD, and to the people with phat PS3s that have had the YLoD, the old PS3s are starting to drop like flies. My friend is in that boat right now with his slim PS3. the PS3 is more reliable in the first few years then after that they start dropping. the 360 isn't as reliable in the first few years (if one makes it that far), its mainly the newer models that do.

 

the 360 started to get allot more reliable when the falcon model came out, and it got allot better when the jasper model came out ( i own a jasper 360), so far 9 months strong. its to early to know anything about the new 360 (although it has had some issues with faulty power bricks).

no it's not too early on Jasper, as I mentioned in another post I hand asset dispostion for a major retailer, they have told me that though improved alot the newer 360 still has a fairly high return rate.

 

not from what i have seen around in the forums, because the forums would be showing that. i have seen posts about falcons and older models but very few posts about failing Jasper units (the ones i have seen are from user error or a screwed up software update, or the result of nature, as such as a lightning strike, a failing HDD). most users mistaken the RRoD with other error lights (its also easy to fake a RRoD, some just stumble onto it thinking they really have it, mainly due to a bad cable connection). a brownout can trigger a fake RRoD (showing the RRoD lights but its due to not enough power being supplied) i ran into this one when my UPS had a fit when a TV was turned on along with a tv that was already turned on when connected to the backup side along with the 360 which was also plugged into the backup side (one to many TVs on the backup side will do that).

 

every single video i have seen that claims to be a RRoD with a jasper unit seems to be fake (or not a jasper unit). loose power cable connection, a jtagged 360 with the error code enabled, non RRoD error lights beveled by the user to be the real deal (like with a loose AV cable connection), or a fluke.

 

as i say again its really to early to tell with the new 360 ( aka the slim 360), nowhere did i say its to early about the jasper. i bet there has been a few RRoD but due to the users ignorance in having it in a stuffed area what has hardly no air movement.

 

My friend has a first gen 360 that still works today (the DVD drive had to be replaced) but other then that never overheated or no signs of a RRoD, his son currently has it and he owns the slim 360. its mainly because he knows how to take care of it, i learned from him on how to take care of a 360. there is things you do not do to these newer consoles or you will run into a thermal runaway which is the main cause of damage which can result in the RRoD down the road.

Edited November 13, 2010 by madmax2069

[OldAtarian]

I have a PS2,PS3, and a PSP. All started with the PS1. I've been a Sony guy. I don't appreciate MS's business practices. But the difference in business practice between companies like MS and Sony are blurring very fast. Pretty soon I'll tell them both what they can do with their consoles.

 

What gets to me is not so much whether bc is part of a system, but that a particular company includes it, then takes it away. This is not limited to backward compatibility, though. Sony used to allow 3rd party OS installation on their console. Many people utilized it to add functionality to their console, such as a Linux OS. In a recent update they removed that capability under the excuse that it was a security vulnerability.

 

Well, damnit. I call bullshit. Merely connecting your PS3 to the internet represents a "potential" security risk.

 

Some people were using it to install emulators on which they could play their old games. I'm guessing Sony didn't like that because it could potentially cut into their bottom dollar. So they decided it best to screw their customers.

 

Security vulnerability to who? Us or them? How does a security vulnerability from running Linux on a PS3 impact Sony in any way? It only impacts the end user for the most part so from that perspective it isn't any of Sony's damn business if someone wants to run Linux. The real reason, I think, is that they are worried about people using their PS3's to bypass copy protection to share Blu Ray content.

Edited November 16, 2010 by OldAtarian

[SlowCoder]

I have a PS2,PS3, and a PSP. All started with the PS1. I've been a Sony guy. I don't appreciate MS's business practices. But the difference in business practice between companies like MS and Sony are blurring very fast. Pretty soon I'll tell them both what they can do with their consoles.

 

What gets to me is not so much whether bc is part of a system, but that a particular company includes it, then takes it away. This is not limited to backward compatibility, though. Sony used to allow 3rd party OS installation on their console. Many people utilized it to add functionality to their console, such as a Linux OS. In a recent update they removed that capability under the excuse that it was a security vulnerability.

 

Well, damnit. I call bullshit. Merely connecting your PS3 to the internet represents a "potential" security risk.

 

Some people were using it to install emulators on which they could play their old games. I'm guessing Sony didn't like that because it could potentially cut into their bottom dollar. So they decided it best to screw their customers.

 

Security vulnerability to who? Us or them? How does a security vulnerability from running Linux on a PS3 impact Sony in any way? It only impacts the end user for the most part so from that perspective it isn't any of Sony's damn business if someone wants to run Linux. The real reason, I think, is that they are worried about people using their PS3's to bypass copy protection to share Blu Ray content.

Exactly my point. That's how they justified removing the feature. Just an excuse to protect their cash flow. If there was a known flaw, the best thing for their consumers would be to patch the hole. But as many of you have said. It's the bottom line, not the consumers, that's important.

[OldAtarian]

Problem is that there seems to be a flaw with the old 60gb models that makes them brick before long. And Sony doesn't replace them with other 60gb models when you send them in for repair.

 

My launch 60gb YLOD'd a couple months ago and Sony offered me two choices: a repair for $180 or an exchange for a 120gb Slim for $120.

 

I had mine repaired by a local computer store and the deciding factor of why I did this was because Sony will only put a 90 day warranty on the repair or exchange and won't allow you to purchase an extended warranty since those are reserved exclusively for new systems. I didn't want to pay almost $200 for a repair and then 6 months later maybe find myself facing another YLOD and another $200 repair bill.

 

I believe that if Sony repairs/refurbishes a system, they ought to stand behind that repair/refurbish and at the very least offer you the option to purchase an extended warranty.

 

 

Mendon

 

Geez only 90 days? I sent my 360 in when it red ringed a few months out of warranty (that's ONE red ring in 38 months) and they still sent me a replacement unit for free with a 1 year warranty and a free month of Xbox Live.

Thats because a sony rarely dies, whereas a 360 is certainly going to fail again. the longer warranty was caused by the terrible product reliability.

 

 

Go to ebay to see all the broken and YLOD PS3's that YLOD'd again only a few months after coming back from being fixed. PS3 sucks for reliability, too, and there's a lot more of them for sale than there are RROD 360's.

Edited November 17, 2010 by OldAtarian