Some games don't work ! Help clean console connector.

[Randyman]

Hey everyone,

New issue here with my 2600. Some of my games work rock solid every time I insert / remove / power off / power on...no matter what. Some others have to be finagled ( never tried to spell that word before ). Either pushed in or pulled out a tiny bit or held to the side...something. And once it's working, if I power off then on again, it usually doesn't work without being finagled again. So I'm guessing the angled interface connector pins that contact the runs on the board. Does anybody know how to get the plastic cover off of the connector so I can really clean the pins? I know how to take the whole thing apart down to the motherboard, and I know there are 2 screws, one on each side of the plastic shroud, but it still didn't want to come off and I didn't want to force it. I'm guessing some sort of tabs or something but don't know if it can be released without unsoldering the whole connector. Please help me figure this out. I've practically rebuilt my whole unit: new voltage regulator ( the old one was good ), 6 new switches ( for cosmetics only, the old ones were fine ), new power jack ( the only real problem ), new upgraded shielded rf cable, new black cardboard around the db9 connectors, cleaned all the flux that Atari left on the boards, rebuilt 3 pairs of paddles, tested 3 joysticks, 2 driving controllers, 2 keyboard controllers, ( and a partridge in a pear tree !!! ),washed and cleaned the whole housing inside and out, and started testing all my games ( I have 46 to do in all ). It would be a shame if I can't get it going reliably. I could order a new connector but it's likely to need cleaning since they're all 20 plus years old. I had to tin the crap out of all these new parts because they've been in some warehouse oxidizing for all this time. So, I talk alot. Any suggestions? ( About the Atari, not about talking alot ).

Thanks,

Randy

Edited November 7, 2010 by Randyman

[cobra429]

Before you repair the pins on the interface of the unit, check all the solder joints on the board that goes to the pin connectors. Its possible that there may be a few "broken" solder joints that connect to the cartridge slot

[A.J. Franzman]

Does anybody know how to get the plastic cover off of the connector so I can really clean the pins? I know how to take the whole thing apart down to the motherboard, and I know there are 2 screws, one on each side of the plastic shroud, but it still didn't want to come off and I didn't want to force it.

It sounds like you're talking about a six-switcher. The black cartridge guide on six-switchers and woody or vader four-switchers can not easily be removed from the cartridge connector without unsoldering the connector from the motherboard. There are two screws on the inside holding them together. Actually, on a six-switcher, you could possibly remove the two screws by working "blind" with a right-angle #1 Phillips driver of exactly the right dimensions. But it's likely to be an exercise in frustration. The juniors (and 7800s) are different, in that their cartridge guides are molded in as part of the case top and come away with it by simply opening the case.

Edited November 7, 2010 by A.J. Franzman

[Deteacher]

By any chance, are the games that don't work Activision carts? Activision used a slightly thinner PCB board when making their carts. As a result, those carts don't make as solid a connection as games made by other companies and therefore need a little more "encouragement" to get working.

[Randyman]

The ones that don't work are varied, at least 1 or 2 are indeed Activision, Atari Bowling, Breakout, Super Breakout, Circus Atari, etc. Thanks to Cobra I looked and it does look like some of the solder joints have little cracks ( though I don't see any pin movement but still... ). However, I did a quick reflow of all 24 pins last night at about 2:00 am after I read his message and it didn't fix the problem. I need to do a better job so I'll try later. And thanks to Franzman for confirming my fears. I'll probably unsolder and remove the connector to check it out. I guess if I'm gonna do that I might just replace it anyway. It's just frustrating to do all this and think I'll have the most perfect system ever and to find out I still have a problem. I recleaned at least one game that didn't work, thinking maybe my alcohol wipe job hadn't done the trick, but still had the problem. I even sanded it lightly and cleaned it again. The broken solder joints seemed consistent with the fact that I could get some games to work by inserting them then pulling back slightly while powering on. Or sometimes pushing to the left. Anyway...

[mattbuc16]

By any chance, are the games that don't work Activision carts? Activision used a slightly thinner PCB board when making their carts. As a result, those carts don't make as solid a connection as games made by other companies and therefore need a little more "encouragement" to get working.

 

I found this out recently, too. I bought about 160 games and they all pretty much worked right away except for the damn Activision carts! Cleaning them has helped a little. Beyond that, yeah, it's the damn thin PCB.

[Randyman]

Well I don't get it. Is it possible that like half of my games just went bad sitting for 20 years? I took the angled connector completely off the board, abraded the contacts a little bit, bent them in a tiny bit, and resoldered it back in. I checked continuity from every contact ( where it would touch the contacts on the game cartridge ) to where it goes into an IC. Still the same problem with the same games. Most of them will work if I try them enough times, but then NOT work if I power off and on again, even without touching the cartridge. If a game goes bad can it work sometimes and not others? I even opened one of the games that didn't work and scotch brited the contacts nice and clean and it's still intermittent. I need to find somebody around here with another 2600 to try my games on. Or buy a replacement for one of my suspect games and try it to see if I have a bad line or chip that certain specific games use. Who knows. But my console is all fresh and beautiful, even if my games won't work on it. Anybody here live in Mount Olive, NJ area?

[Benzman66]

Definitely sounds like a chip issue!

Start swapping each out one at a time.

Could also be the power regulator going bad, but I put my bets on one of the chips.

[A.J. Franzman]

Some pre-Vader consoles (enough for Atari to take notice and make an engineering change) were known to have intermittent failures of the reset circuit. The original power-on reset scheme used a simple RC (resistor-capacitor) delay. The later boards replaced that with a 555 timer IC. But, some time after that, the 555 timer was removed and a transistor inserted in its place. If you post a photo of your board I'll see if I can tell what circuit it has and possibly identify a capacitor to try replacing.

[BenG76]

Well now I know why I have trouble with my Activision carts. Thanks, glad I ran across this thread.

[toymailman]

Maybe I missed this while reading through the thread, but did you try cleaning the carts? I usually have a three-step process for cart cleaning depending on how bad the connections are.

 

1) Get a Qtip and some ClassiClean solution (found mine on eBay) or 90%+ isopropyl alcohol solution. Swipe each side of the board where the contacts are.

 

if that doesn't work...

 

2) Get an exacto knife and gently scrape each side of the board where the contacts are.

 

if that doesn't work...

 

3) Then I open up the cartridge. Usually this damages the label in some way and is why it is the last resort if all else fails. I do a little more scraping with the exacto knife and then take an eraser to the contacts to get them to shine. Reassemble the cart and try again.

 

If it still doesn't work then the cart is likely bad. However, I have now had a few thousand carts pass through my hands and less than 20 were unable to be revived.

[Randyman]

Some pre-Vader consoles (enough for Atari to take notice and make an engineering change) were known to have intermittent failures of the reset circuit. The original power-on reset scheme used a simple RC (resistor-capacitor) delay. The later boards replaced that with a 555 timer IC. But, some time after that, the 555 timer was removed and a transistor inserted in its place. If you post a photo of your board I'll see if I can tell what circuit it has and possibly identify a capacitor to try replacing.

 

 

Which board do you want pictures of, and any specific part of the board I should go close up on? Could what you're talking about cause failures only on certain games? I have games that work every time ( Air Sea Battle, Defender, Yars Revenge, Defender, Space Invaders, Frogger, ) and other games that always have problems ( Bowling, Breakout, Super Breakout, Circus Atari, Zaxxon, etc. ). Same question as to a chip being the problem, why only some games while some games ALWAYS work? I was going to buy a Breakout cartridge on ebay today for cheap to see if it works all the time. I just can't believe I have this many games that just don't work. Would an Atari Diagnostic Cartridge tell me what was wrong? Maybe I should just send this somewhere to be looked at. I asked before but is anybody close to North Jersey? AJ, if you tell me what to replace, I'm very capable of doing the replacement but always unsure of the right part so please be specific as to where to get it and exactly what part #. Thanks for all the help.

Also, Toymailman, I did clean all carts with alcohol and swabs before I tested them. Then I took some of the "bad" ones and cleaned them harder, even reached up with an emery board. When they still didn't work, I took one of them apart and scotchbrited the runs. Still the same problem.

Oh yeah, AJ, please tell me how to post pictures to this forum or send me an e-mail address to which I can send them. Thanks.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Randyman

[A.J. Franzman]

Never mind the pictures; I read back through the topic and saw that you have a six-switcher. They didn't change much with different revisions, so here's a motherboard pictorial layout diagram from the FSM showing the reset components. The RIOT and the CPU have independent resets (the TIA does not appear to have any reset pin or circuit). The 6532 RIOT uses a 0.1 uF capacitor C220 and 24k ohm resistor R217 outlined in blue below, while the 6507 CPU uses a 4.7 uF capacitor C201 and 10k ohm or 24k ohm resistor R206 outlined in red below. This means it should take the CPU about 20 to 50 times longer to reset than the RIOT, so the RIOT should already be up and waiting when the CPU starts up. However, the 4.7 uF capacitor is an electrolytic type, which tend to dry out and fail with age by going open or drastically down in value. If this happens, the CPU will either not reset properly, or will reset early and begin operating before the RIOT is ready, either of which could cause problems. I don't know how cartridge ROMS figure into the process and whether a particular reset problem could be likely to "work itself out" to a functional system condition with one cartridge but not another. At any rate, replacing C201 would not be a bad idea. Be sure to get the polarity right if you do.

 

Edited November 9, 2010 by A.J. Franzman

[Randyman]

Never mind the pictures; I read back through the topic and saw that you have a six-switcher. They didn't change much with different revisions, so here's a motherboard pictorial layout diagram from the FSM showing the reset components. The RIOT and the CPU have independent resets (the TIA does not appear to have any reset pin or circuit). The 6532 RIOT uses a 0.1 uF capacitor C220 and 24k ohm resistor R217 outlined in blue below, while the 6507 CPU uses a 4.7 uF capacitor C201 and 10k ohm or 24k ohm resistor R206 outlined in red below. This means it should take the CPU about 20 to 50 times longer to reset than the RIOT, so the RIOT should already be up and waiting when the CPU starts up. However, the 4.7 uF capacitor is an electrolytic type, which tend to dry out and fail with age by going open or drastically down in value. If this happens, the CPU will either not reset properly, or will reset early and begin operating before the RIOT is ready, either of which could cause problems. I don't know how cartridge ROMS figure into the process and whether a particular reset problem could be likely to "work itself out" to a functional system condition with one cartridge but not another. At any rate, replacing C201 would not be a bad idea. Be sure to get the polarity right if you do.

 

 

One more question: WHAT !?! Just kidding, I kind of got it. Certainly not on your level. So is there a reading I can take with the cap in circuit that would tell me something? Mostly, is there a part number and place that you know I can get the exact right part or does any 4.7 microfarad cap work?

[Randyman]

So, can I just say: "A.J. FRANZMAN YOU F#*KING ROCK DUDE !!!" I got the cap from Radio Shack for like $1.10, swapped it out in a few minutes, and EVERY game in question fires right up every single time. I haven't even cleaned the solder joints yet. I was so excited I had to come post this right away. I don't know why it was only certain games that were having problems but that seems to be it. It took me longer to unwrap and straighten the leads on the new cap than it did to form it, install it, and solder it. So much for mil-spec. I'm used to having my work go through QC, QA, and Government inspection. Leads MUST exit the component body straight and remain straight for at least 2 lead diameters before the beginning of the bend radius. Not that Atari was any better. I don't think they know what a bend radius or stress relief is. Their leads just kind of make a straight line from the component to the hole. Plus, the components are floating in the air half the time at all different angles. Anyway, now that my system is BETTER than new, let's see if I can play it without getting pissed and breaking things. Oh, I was going to replace the big electrolytic cap ( 2200 uF, 16V ) on the top edge of the switch board after reading what you said about them failing with age, but Radio Shack only had 2200 uF, 35 V, which would work but physically I think it would have been too big. I don't know what that cap does ( do you? ) but I guess since I'm up and running it's still good. IT'S ALL GOOD !!! Please post here so that I know that you read this, and thanks again for your help. Oh, and for the people saying the thin Activision cartridges won't work, you can bend each of the 24 contacts slightly inward so that they'll be tighter and make better contact with the thinner boards. I had mine off so it was easy but I think you could do it through the slot without taking it apart. I just put the tip of an exacto blade between the rounded top edge of the contact and the white shell of the connector and bent them in slightly. Everything is nice and tight now.

 

UPDATE: There's definitely something weird with the Activision games. I have 2 that work and 4 that don't. I really don't think it's the thickness of the board because my connector is nice and tight. Who knows. Everything else works every time.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Randyman

[A.J. Franzman]

You're welcome! If you couldn't tell before, I wasn't very sure that the reset cap was your problem (never having had the symptoms you described in any of the units I've worked on), but I'm glad my guess appears to have been right.

 

 

I was going to replace the big electrolytic cap ( 2200 uF, 16V ) on the top edge of the switch board after reading what you said about them failing with age, but Radio Shack only had 2200 uF, 35 V, which would work but physically I think it would have been too big. I don't know what that cap does ( do you? ) but I guess since I'm up and running it's still good.

It's a power supply filter for smoothing the incoming DC power. Think of it as a backup to the one that's built into the wall wart, which is a bit undersized to begin with. If both fail (which is fairly common), your console won't be very happy. Usually the first symptom is diagonal interference lines across the picture, but it can also cause horizontal "hum bars" traveling up or down the screen and general glitchiness.

 

 

UPDATE: There's definitely something weird with the Activision games. I have 2 that work and 4 that don't. I really don't think it's the thickness of the board because my connector is nice and tight. Who knows. Everything else works every time.

I'm beginning to suspect that the common explanation of thinner circuit boards being the main cause of Activision's carts' finickiness is not the whole story, and probably not even the main reason in many instances. While performing several cartridge dumps in support of a member's project, other AAers and I discovered that even well-cleaned cartridge contacts and clean, snug connectors often do not help reading of certain cartridges. I think the ROM ICs themselves are right on the borderline of being functional at all. I hope Activision and Parker Brothers got great prices on them, to justify their being crappy parts.

 

Oh, also, I just remembered that I once had an Activision cart that stopped working, and was astonished to discover upon opening it that one of the ROM's pins had never been soldered at all! Only the pressure of the pin pressing against the inside of the plated hole in the circuit board had kept the cartridge working for the first couple of decades of its existence.

Edited November 11, 2010 by A.J. Franzman

[Randyman]

And one last update: The problem with my Activision cartridges was just that they needed they're own special intensive cleaning. I had cleaned all my games with alcohol but apparently these ones weren't happy with that. I found that I could get them to work by pulling slightly out on the cart every time ( not like before where I thought wiggling the non-working games eventually worked when it was apparently the reset circuit ). So I opened one and saw how thick the oxidation was. I took an emery board to it ( which is handy if you want to give yourself a manicure while you work on your Atari ) and shined it all up and it works every time. So I did the rest ( without opening them up ) and they're all perfect. Which is good because H.E.R.O. was one of my non-working games and I see it's one of the more valuable ones ( other than the porn from Mystique ). Now, if I don't break anything I can finally get this thing listed on ebay...unless I get too attached to it in the meantime. Any guesses on what this is worth? All new switches ( nice and shiny ), new voltage regulator, new reset cap ( thanks again AJ ), new upgraded shielded RF cable, new cardboard around the joystick connectors, new power jack, 6 paddles ( 3 pairs ), 3 joysticks, 2 driving controllers, 2 keyboard controllers, and 46 freshly cleaned games...ALL WORKING !!! Not to mention I cleaned all the leftover flux from both boards since Atari apparently didn't know how to. The console is in excellent condition. A couple of little scratches on the wood area and some missing orange paint around the switches but not bad at all. I thought of trying to touch up or re-do the orange paint but figured I'd better not start that... Any guesses on value?

[neoarcade]

A lot of people use rubbing alcohal to clean contacts, but honestly, it performs a surface clean at best. The most effective way to clean the pcb contacts is to simply use an eraser and rub the contacts. It will look brand new compared to what rubbing alcohal can take off. Erase, the wipe with alcohal (or contact cleaner).

[tregare]

A lot of people use rubbing alcohal to clean contacts, but honestly, it performs a surface clean at best. The most effective way to clean the pcb contacts is to simply use an eraser and rub the contacts. It will look brand new compared to what rubbing alcohal can take off. Erase, the wipe with alcohal (or contact cleaner).

 

 

I try to avoid using abrasives. too easy to damage a trace or the contact.

 

try DeOxit or another of the oxide cleaners, if you are really wanting to go all out, you can get a gold plating material and gold plate the contacts after removing the oxidation I don't remember the names of any, but there are some that you just apply with a special tool (looks like a foam head cleaning wand) or small brush.