Underball Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Kind of an aside from the sound update thread, this topic has been itching at me, so I have to ask: Is sound on these old systems really a big deal at all? I don't get all the fuss. People saying things like "The sound of that port is bad, it totally throws the feel of that game off, I can't play it!" I'm sorry, but this just sounds plain damn crazy to me. It's crappy 8-bit bloop-bleep sound effects. They're ancient video games. Unless there's a specific sound missing from a game that is supposed to alert you to something - who gives a flying fart? Sure, the newer systems with CD and DVD/Blu-Ray have made huge advances, but that's to be expected. But pretty much every system in the golden era - 2600/5200/7800/NES/SMS/coleco etc. sound like unintelligible beep boop crap anyway. and NONE of it affects gameplay at all. Donkey Kong doesn't suddenly become more difficult because the music has an F# in the wrong place because of TIA limitations. You guys, I dunno. I'll take the updated versions and play them, sure. always fun to hack around with stuff, love it all. But all the whiney complaints. Do you guys even really like these games, or do you hate them? Some days around here, I just can't tell. Edited January 6, 2011 by Underball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Irritating sounds, no matter the system, can drive me away from a game. The 7800 has its share of games with sounds that irritate me. I just avoid those games. I also avoid a number of NES games for the same reason, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Personally I think a really good chip tune in a game can really improve it and make it more enjoyable to play. Then again I am a massive fan of chip tunes and can quite happily sit and listen to them for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovative Leisure Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think having the RIOT as a sound chip for a new console in 1984 (and 1986) hurt Atari but in retrospect think the technological limitations of an 80s game console are part of its appeal. If the sound of the 7800 were "perfect", we wouldn't have the XM expansion module now would we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBoris Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Kind of an aside from the sound update thread, this topic has been itching at me, so I have to ask: Is sound on these old systems really a big deal at all? I don't get all the fuss. People saying things like "The sound of that port is bad, it totally throws the feel of that game off, I can't play it!" I'm sorry, but this just sounds plain damn crazy to me. It's crappy 8-bit bloop-bleep sound effects. They're ancient video games. Unless there's a specific sound missing from a game that is supposed to alert you to something - who gives a flying fart? Sure, the newer systems with CD and DVD/Blu-Ray have made huge advances, but that's to be expected. But pretty much every system in the golden era - 2600/5200/7800/NES/SMS/coleco etc. sound like unintelligible beep boop crap anyway. and NONE of it affects gameplay at all. Donkey Kong doesn't suddenly become more difficult because the music has an F# in the wrong place because of TIA limitations. You guys, I dunno. I'll take the updated versions and play them, sure. always fun to hack around with stuff, love it all. But all the whiney complaints. Do you guys even really like these games, or do you hate them? Some days around here, I just can't tell. Bad sound doesn't necessarily make a game harder to play, but it can make it less enjoyable. I guess if you didn't grow up in that period it might all sound like crap, but there was definitely a range of quality in game sound even in the 8-bit era. There were definitely some games that had really distinctive and enjoyable sound. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Kind of an aside from the sound update thread, this topic has been itching at me, so I have to ask: Is sound on these old systems really a big deal at all? I don't get all the fuss. People saying things like "The sound of that port is bad, it totally throws the feel of that game off, I can't play it!" I'm sorry, but this just sounds plain damn crazy to me. It's crappy 8-bit bloop-bleep sound effects. They're ancient video games. Unless there's a specific sound missing from a game that is supposed to alert you to something - who gives a flying fart? Sure, the newer systems with CD and DVD/Blu-Ray have made huge advances, but that's to be expected. But pretty much every system in the golden era - 2600/5200/7800/NES/SMS/coleco etc. sound like unintelligible beep boop crap anyway. and NONE of it affects gameplay at all. Donkey Kong doesn't suddenly become more difficult because the music has an F# in the wrong place because of TIA limitations. You guys, I dunno. I'll take the updated versions and play them, sure. always fun to hack around with stuff, love it all. But all the whiney complaints. Do you guys even really like these games, or do you hate them? Some days around here, I just can't tell. Bad sound doesn't necessarily make a game harder to play, but it can make it less enjoyable. I guess if you didn't grow up in that period it might all sound like crap, but there was definitely a range of quality in game sound even in the 8-bit era. There were definitely some games that had really distinctive and enjoyable sound. Dan I'm 38, Dan. I grew up in that era. I had everything - Sears Pong, Coleco Gemini, 7800, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm in the "grating sounds" bother me camp. The technical limits of the TIA didn't bother me in some circumstances. It was possible to make enjoyable sound and music with even that chip, IMO. I always loved the music of CALIFORNIA GAMES on the 2600 as a kid. I didn't mind the music in games like MIDNIGHT MUTANTS either. But sounds not done well can be distracting. The PLANET SMASHERS intro comes to mind. Screechy, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 whiney complaints 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 I guess when I was a kid it was more about graphics and gameplay for me. Sound was always kind of an afterthought. It's just funny to see so many people bagging on something I never really noticed back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I guess when I was a kid it was more about graphics and gameplay for me. Sound was always kind of an afterthought. It's just funny to see so many people bagging on something I never really noticed back then. I only noticed it when bad, but was the same. I seldom went, "oooh ... what cool sound effects or music", but did get impressed by graphics. The one exception I remember in 1987 was hearing CASTLEVANIA for the first time ... the music was awesome IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Kind of an aside from the sound update thread, this topic has been itching at me, so I have to ask: Is sound on these old systems really a big deal at all? I don't get all the fuss. People saying things like "The sound of that port is bad, it totally throws the feel of that game off, I can't play it!" I'm sorry, but this just sounds plain damn crazy to me. It's crappy 8-bit bloop-bleep sound effects. They're ancient video games. Unless there's a specific sound missing from a game that is supposed to alert you to something - who gives a flying fart? Sure, the newer systems with CD and DVD/Blu-Ray have made huge advances, but that's to be expected. But pretty much every system in the golden era - 2600/5200/7800/NES/SMS/coleco etc. sound like unintelligible beep boop crap anyway. and NONE of it affects gameplay at all. Donkey Kong doesn't suddenly become more difficult because the music has an F# in the wrong place because of TIA limitations. You guys, I dunno. I'll take the updated versions and play them, sure. always fun to hack around with stuff, love it all. But all the whiney complaints. Do you guys even really like these games, or do you hate them? Some days around here, I just can't tell. My thing with game sounds is this. Now if these games were all original, and never existed in a better form, we wouldn't know what we were missing and would be more than happy with all the bleeps and bloops. I was certainly happy with the early original VCS games I played as a kid even though they had such simple sound effects. The games were fun so it didn't really matter. But with arcade ports, I just can't block out the memories of how these games look and sound. The arcade original is the standard that the game is measured against. Most of the ports I played back then disappointed me because of this, but I still considered many of them to be fun to play. Today, most of the games I like to play on the 7800 are arcade ports. The 7800 is just so disapointing because the graphics are very good but it's saddled with a sound chip that just can't reproduce the sounds of the game being ported. One of my hobbies is to dabble in programming these old 8-bit systems. So hacking these old ports and improving the sounds is something that helps me get my programming fix and make the games more fun for me to play. Feels like I'm righting the wrong that Atari made when they released that system with TIA sound. You might consider me "crazy" for worrying about how a game sounds. I think it would be crazy not to. To each his own. Perry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm with you for the most part Underball and I don't get what all the negativity is about when it comes to the 7800 sound especially. Considering it uses the same chip as the 2600, I think most games sound awesome. DK doesn't even offend and I know that's a point of contention with a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Tep - I'm with you. Now that we have the technology to update them and play on real hardware with sd/flashcarts I'm all for it. Pokey kong and the updated pmc are fantastic. I just dont get all the people who complain like their childhood was ruined by the bad sound in dk or xevious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm with you for the most part Underball and I don't get what all the negativity is about when it comes to the 7800 sound especially. Considering it uses the same chip as the 2600, I think most games sound awesome. DK doesn't even offend and I know that's a point of contention with a lot. I'm weird like that. I like Karateka too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It's not THAT bad. Some games though are just intolerable. The theme music that starts in Donkey Kong is like scraping your teeth along a chalkboard. It literally makes my eyes water. Most games are tolerable in a crappy sort of way, but doesn't ruin the game as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The sound of most of the consoles made prior to 1984 do not bother me too much (I put the 7800 in that group). I'm a fan of rpg's. What does get on my nerves this repetitive looping music that was common to many NES rpg's. It didn't bother me then, but it is like nails on a chalk board to me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian1 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 From my experience, I think people who don't appreciate good sound effects and music in video games also don't listen to or appreciate "regular" music too. An old friend of mine long ago could care less about music and had something like 5 music CDs in their collection. However, he had 100+ CD-ROMS full of games, utilities, etc. He hated it when I put on any of my music in the car! I have a pretty diverse taste in music across all genres (including chiptunes), but everything irritated him. I goes he and others like him just weren't born with music in their soul. No offense by the way... Concerning arcade translations, it's especially irritating to know that the sound chip can reproduce the arcade sounds, but instead, the programmer replaces them with blip-blop sounds. The best example I can think of was Roadblasters on the Lynx. Anyone who has played the arcade knows the music gives a cue when the end of stage is coming up. The "end of stage/bonus points/next stage" rock music gets the player pumped up for the next round. When I played the Lynx version, it just didn't "feel" right because of these missing sound/music cues. I don't know when to hit the nitro-charger because the music is missing or I can't tell the difference between the lame blip-blop sounds and the other sounds. I don't "feel" pumped up for the next stage. The music was really important to Roadblasters. Play it without sound, and it's a totally different game. Kind of like muting the sound when watching a movie... Thats' my $0.02... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I like music a lot, but I prefer turning up the volume on my stereo and turning down the sound on the games most of the time. Game music on the older games gets pretty monotonous. (that may be why I've not spent much time with Roadblasters, Atarian1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brojamfootball Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Me and my brother used to play Turmoil with volume down while listening to Men at Work. Yes it was the Who Can it Be Now slash Land Down Under album. Not because the sound was bad but we just did it that way. Other times we would listen to the Atari. All that being said some 7800 sounds are just grating as stated above esp when compared to arcade originals. Throw in comparing the grating sounds of some games compared to others on the 7800 that sound great expands the annoying letdown. Of course a certain game involving a jumpman and a big ape comes to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+darryl1970 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I was very big on sound. I would have to play Pac-Man Fever, in order to suffer through the 2600 Pac-Man game. However, time has shown that was just a poor choice of programming, because some 2600 Pac-hacks have done a pretty close job. The sound effects in the 2600 version of Donkey Kong are better than the sound in the 7800 version. I recall a similar disgust when I first heard the soundtrack to the 2600 Mr. Do's Castle. I had the 5200 version, which had an arcade-like sound track, compared to the noise channel substituted for bass. However, I am now impressed with the programmer's creativity, because I did not realize the system's limitations at the time. All-in-all, I do not believe that 8-bit sound was bleeps. I had, what I considered to be, very impressive sound demos on my Atari 8-bit computers. I thought the 2600 had a few impressive moments, given the limitations. However, a crunchy walking sound (7800 Kong) is a nightmare. The death sequence is sad. The 2600 version "blips" would have been greatly appreciated in comparison. Here's the difference I appreciate the closeness when a programmer would push the hardware to a similar sound within the hardware's capability (8-bit Defender for example). The sounds in 2600 Ms Pac redeemed the "clang-clang" Pac-Man sound! However, negligence like 7800 DK or 2600 Pac-Man was a disappointment. I am personally amazed how close some of the 8-bit sound effects are in the Pokey version of Pac-Man collection. The sound of Ms. Pac-Man eating a monster are incredibly close to the arcade. Unlike today's samples and CD tracks, the sound of the old games were part of their personality. The sounds of classic games were often created FOR those games; they were never heard before. In my Pac-Man days, I lived for that "Whacka" sound. When I heard the 8-bit computer had the "gulp" sound of eating a cherry, I HAD to have it! Part of the nostalgia of classic gaming is capturing the entire personality, sound and graphics. It is remembering the limitations that we had to deal with, while appreciating how close they came. It is unfair to say that only graphics count in that area. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Donkey Kong 7800 sounds never bothered me because I hardly saw the real game in the arcades. I was more used to the 2600, so anything was an improvement. However, having played Dig Dug 2600 for years and then trying to play the 7800- the graphics are better, but it sounds exactly the same. I want to play 7800 Dig Dug, but I just can't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 From my experience, I think people who don't appreciate good sound effects and music in video games also don't listen to or appreciate "regular" music too. An old friend of mine long ago could care less about music and had something like 5 music CDs in their collection. However, he had 100+ CD-ROMS full of games, utilities, etc. He hated it when I put on any of my music in the car! I have a pretty diverse taste in music across all genres (including chiptunes), but everything irritated him. I goes he and others like him just weren't born with music in their soul. No offense by the way... Concerning arcade translations, it's especially irritating to know that the sound chip can reproduce the arcade sounds, but instead, the programmer replaces them with blip-blop sounds. The best example I can think of was Roadblasters on the Lynx. Anyone who has played the arcade knows the music gives a cue when the end of stage is coming up. The "end of stage/bonus points/next stage" rock music gets the player pumped up for the next round. When I played the Lynx version, it just didn't "feel" right because of these missing sound/music cues. I don't know when to hit the nitro-charger because the music is missing or I can't tell the difference between the lame blip-blop sounds and the other sounds. I don't "feel" pumped up for the next stage. The music was really important to Roadblasters. Play it without sound, and it's a totally different game. Kind of like muting the sound when watching a movie... Thats' my $0.02... Oddly enough, I am a musician. Have toured quite a bit in bands too. And I have an enormous mucus library at home. I even went to college for Audio Production. I guess I just accepted these systems' limitations as they were back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm not even going to fix that. Lol. iPhone spell checker is hilarious sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I prefer the Crazy Kong music to the Donkey Kong music, am I nuts? inb4 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovative Leisure Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think having the RIOT as a sound chip for a new console in 1984 (and 1986) hurt Atari but in retrospect think the technological limitations of an 80s game console are part of its appeal. If the sound of the 7800 were "perfect", we wouldn't have the XM expansion module now would we? Sorry. I meant TIA, not RIOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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