Atari 810 upgrade question

[mimo]

I have never owned an 810 before, but have the opportunity to buy a boxed one.

As most of my disc collection is in DD density format, I would like to know if there are any mods that can be done to achive DD or at least 1050 ED compatibility

 

Thanks

[ijor]

Never heard about such an upgrade/mod for the 810. There were a few 810 upgrades, including the Happy 810, but they didn't give you DD neither ED.

 

Such an upgrade couldn't reuse much of the original 810. It would likely be more expensive than a new 1050.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

There were a few 810 upgrades, including the Happy 810, but they didn't give you DD neither ED.

 

The "810 Turbo" upgrade (N.C.T.) offers Double Density.

[mimo]

There were a few 810 upgrades, including the Happy 810, but they didn't give you DD neither ED.

 

The "810 Turbo" upgrade (N.C.T.) offers Double Density.

 

I did a bit more googling and came to that conclusion. Next question. Does anyone know how to build one, where to buy one from or want to sell one?

[ijor]

The "810 Turbo" upgrade (N.C.T.) offers Double Density.

 

Interesting, I forgot about the 810 Turbo, thanks for mentioning it.

 

I wonder how reliable it was. From what I can find in the net, the upgrade didn't replace the mechanism. That's not surprising because otherwise the upgrade wouldn't be economically feasible. But ideally, you should not use a mechanism designed for SD. And an Antic 810 Turbo review (see below) even hints about the possible problem.

 

Antic 810 Turbo review: http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n4/productreviews.html

 

I did a bit more googling and came to that conclusion. Next question. Does anyone know how to build one, where to buy one from or want to sell one?

 

Unless you insist in doing this just for the fun of it (and yes, that's a very valid reason in the retro computing field), it probably doesn't make much sense.

 

It is not a widely available upgrade. Building it yourself (assuming schematics and ROM binaries are available somewhere) would likely be more expensive than getting a 1050 drive.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Building it yourself (assuming schematics and ROM binaries are available somewhere) would likely be more expensive than getting a 1050 drive.

 

Which still doesn't do Double Density (however, much easier to upgrade)

 

If it's just for the Double Density, there are (were) a lot of aftermarket drives of which many are supporting DD. Check the FAQ: http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html

 

Subject: 3.5) What other floppy disk drives can I use with my Atari?

[candle]

giving 810 DD is a bit problematic, since it would require replacing one obsolete part (possibly with its daughter board) with another obsolete part

and building this one from grounds would require some amount of skill and spare time

bottom line - not likely to happend

but first approach could be pretty straight-forward but still requireing building adapter (daughter board), then 1050e could be used

[bfollett]

Just a curiousity question. I see plenty of post similar to this talking about going to double density both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 drives, but is it possible to upgrade to high density drives. I've never scene a post where anyone has put a 1.2mb or 1.44mb drive into an atari case. Have I just missed those posts, or is there something preventing it from working?

 

Bob

[ijor]

Building it yourself (assuming schematics and ROM binaries are available somewhere) would likely be more expensive than getting a 1050 drive.

Which still doesn't do Double Density (however, much easier to upgrade)

 

We can keep arguing about which is better (or cheaper, or easier), buying a 1050 or building an 810 Turbo clone. But the whole debate is moot unless we have the 810 Turbo technical info (schematics, ROM, etc). Have you seen it? Of course, it is possible to develop a similar upgrade from scratch ...

[BillC]

Just a curiousity question. I see plenty of post similar to this talking about going to double density both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 drives, but is it possible to upgrade to high density drives. I've never scene a post where anyone has put a 1.2mb or 1.44mb drive into an atari case. Have I just missed those posts, or is there something preventing it from working?

 

Bob

The drive controllers of most floppy drives for the Atari 8-bit line didn't support more than double density, some didn't even support double sided, and can't be upgraded beyond what their controller supports.

 

The documentation for the SWP ATR8000 mentions that it supports single, double and quad density 5.25" and 8" floppy drives.

 

The other interface that I know of that allows using greater than double density mechanisms with an Atari 8-bit is the optional Floppy Board for the CSS BlackBox, which requires PBI/ECI.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

But the whole debate is moot unless we have the 810 Turbo technical info (schematics, ROM, etc). Have you seen it?

 

All I have is this, but no technical info:

 

ANTIC VOL. 3, NO. 4 / AUGUST 1984 / PAGE 55

 

 

810 TURBO

Neanderthal Computer Things (NCT)

RO. Box 16489

Irvine, CA 92713

(714) 770-0372

$195.00

 

Reviewed by David Duberman

 

If you've owned your Atari 810 disk drive for a while, you've probably "bumped

your head" at least once on its limited storage capacity. The standard 810

only holds about 90K of data per side (180K total), much less than similar

drives for other home computers. Well, here's some good news: Neanderthal

Computer Things' 810 Turbo offers you a way to increase your system's storage

capacity without incurring the expense of a new drive.

 

 

When installed in an 810 drive, the 810 Turbo circuit board provides true

double-density storage, thus doubling the capacity of each disk side to about

180K. The installation instructions for the board are so clear and explicit

that even novices should have no trouble following them. Many illustrative

photos are included, and no soldering is necessary. However, you must make

sure that your drive's head is clean, and that the drive mechanism is in good

working order, because double-density operation is much more sensitive than

single-density.

 

The Turbo also lets you use Mach DOS, which is included with the circuit

board. Mach DOS speeds data transfer to about four times its normal rate

(which makes it comparable to Happy Computing's Warp Speed). Programmers, who

often load and save programs many times before they're complete, will find that

this feature saves a significant amount of program development time. They'll

also save time going back and forth between DOS and the programming language in

use. In addition, because the Turbo uses track buffering, it permits faster

data transfer even without Mach DOS.

 

Another special feature of the 810 Turbo is its ability to disable write

protection. This feature can be controlled by Mach DOS, and lets you use the

back sides of disks without having to notch them. There is no provision,

however, for the write protection of notched disks.

 

The 810 Turbo automatically recognizes the density of the first disk

inserted into it after it's turned on, and configures itself accordingly

However, application programs that use a DOS disk format and directory, such as

DataSoft's Text Wizard, can use double-density storage for data files. in fact,

the Turbo's documentation includes specific instructions for just such

situations.

 

Mach DOS has several other useful features. When you read the directory of

a disk whose density is opposite that of the last disk read, Mach DOS

automatically switches the density mode and displays the density modes of all

drives in the system. You also can use special options on the Mach DOS menu to

switch density, turn write verification on and off, switch the default drive

(the one addressed by "D:") to a drive other than Drive 1, and convert files

between densities.

 

At $195, the Turbo 810 costs much less than a new double-density drive. It

works and it's a good value.

 

 

 

edit:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260703950049

[Fox-1 / mnx]

The other interface that I know of that allows using greater than double density mechanisms with an Atari 8-bit is the optional Floppy Board for the CSS BlackBox, which requires PBI/ECI.

 

The HDI (High-Density Disk Interface) supports up to 4 high density drives but is not an upgrade but a dedicated device in stead.

 

It's also not available anymore due to obsolete parts.

[carmel_andrews]

Wasn't there something called 'the chip' for the 810, which i think sounded like an 810 version of SA (think it was made by spartan software, going by the ad's in cetrtain US atari magz)

[Fox-1 / mnx]

That would probably be "Fast Chip" and it doesn't do DD. Check the faq.

[ijor]

That would probably be "Fast Chip" and it doesn't do DD.

 

I believe it is a different thing. The Fast chip (not to be confused with the Newell Fast floating point) was just a more optimized formatting sector interleave. Disks formatted with this chip loaded much faster. May be it had some additional feature. Don't know much about it.

 

The CHIP/Archiver was the famous product by Spartan that let you make backups of copy protected disks. Designed, or at least one of the designers, by Mike Gustafson of later ICD fame.

 

As Fox-1 is saying, they don't give you DD. They are both, actually, just ROM upgrades.

[Savetz]

In case anyone is still following this old thread, here's some new info about Neanderthal Computer Things 810 Turbo:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/291937-neanderthal-computer-things-810-turbo/

 

-Kevin

 

All I have is this, but no technical info:





edit:
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260703950049

[Jeffrey Worley]

On 2/14/2011 at 6:58 PM, bfollett said:

Just a curiousity question. I see plenty of post similar to this talking about going to double density both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 drives, but is it possible to upgrade to high density drives. I've never scene a post where anyone has put a 1.2mb or 1.44mb drive into an atari case. Have I just missed those posts, or is there something preventing it from working?

 

Bob

Computer Software Service's Robert Puff designed and marketed a popular upgrade in the 90'; the Black Box.  Black Box gave you a scsi controller and a lot more, but adding CCS' Floppy Board to the Black Box gave you a high-density drive controller for up to four drives.  It was the fastest and most solid floppyface of the Atari's generation.  The Floppy Board also gave you Super Archiver compatibility as well as being able to read and write 1.44meg MSDOS formatted disks natively from the Spartados Command line.