Lynxpro Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Here's Nukey's original thread on Missile Command arcade where these issues were discussed. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/71805-missile-command-arcade/ Iesposta remembered right: it works with the Track & Field controller, and Atariboy2600 even created an overlay you can cut out. That's very cool. So the ultimate would be using the Track-and-Field Controller with one hand and the Trak-Ball Controller with the other. Assuming a CPU re-write to handle all of that. Hardware-wise, that would be the friendliest non-modding way to go without adding extra fire buttons to the Trak-Ball controller and then figuring out how to map everything after that. For the record, Dan Kramer has a custom-built Trak-Ball controller with 3 fire buttons that is for use with the in-house Atari 8-bit 3-Base Missile Command game they used to play back in the lab. The engineers built their own - or he built the units for them - Trak-Balls to play. But so far, the only one still known to exist is Dan's which some of us got to play at the Davis Atari Party earlier this year [and it was fantastic]. He also has the only copy of 3-Base Missile Command on 5 1/4" floppy known to still exist. He'd like for it to become available through commercial-homebrew avenues and also converted to the 5200. There's pics of his custom Trak-Ball over in the Facebook Trak-Bombers group. By the way, all of the work in here is receiving lots of props over at Facebook from both AtariAge members and non-members alike. Keep up the fantastic work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 As stated the Atari 2600 was designed to play pong and tank games, with mid-1970s technology. The fact that it has to keep up with a frame rate to keep a stable display results in game play that is precise and consistent with no slow downs or drop outs. Adding real trak-ball support to these old games Missile Command, Reactor, Centipede and Millipede just shows that good game play gets even better, despite crude graphics. It seems a lot of the same 2600 games on "newer" hardware play much slower even though they look much better. (Of course there are a lot of exceptions where a game is better on newer hardware, or just is not made on the 2600.) All these years later the 2600 is still being pushed farther than it has ever been. Simplifying explaining SpiceWare's new Bus-stuffing Kernel, it manages to update every object on every scan line, where previously a programmer would have to choose what gets done and what gets put off until later, or dropped. It should make some amazing games with "better" graphics. As long as the games runs on a stock Atari, with the 2600 display limitations, it's a 2600 game. Adding better video output was done. It no longer is a 2600. A 2600 with better everything is called a 7800! Same processor just faster, better video hardware with display interrupts and many objects, more ram, same sound but with specs to have better sound chips... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 As long as the games runs on a stock Atari, with the 2600 display limitations, it's a 2600 game. I repeat: The Atari 2600 is so much more than only the TIA. Its a very clever combination of hardware existing in 1976. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I haven't read through the thread, has Battlezone been cited? It looks amazing. Edit: is Robot Tank the home version of Battlezone? I guess that is what kicked off the whole topic. Edited October 4, 2015 by Gentlegamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAC-MAN-RED Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 "Why can't the Atari 2600 display better graphics?" I'm loathe to answer a question with another question, but - Display better graphics than what? I can see in the first post that it was actually one games graphics being compared to another. So it is in fact not the 2600 being compared to another game console that has better specs, but has to do with the age old formula of: Time + Money + Talent = Result. Money is ancillary, time is neccessary, and talent is Mandatory to have a game(and its graphics) be deemed good. A far FAR better thread to have would be: How can we get the Atari 2600 to display better graphics? Dedicate this thread to improving programming skills, technological understanding/expansion, and artistical capabilities of and for the 2600 in regards to graphics. Off shoots of such a thread could be: ...better sound/music, and ...better controls/controllers or some such things. That's my two pennies worth. illya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Edit: is Robot Tank the home version of Battlezone? I guess that is what kicked off the whole topic. Uhh... Battlezone is the home version of Battlezone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I updated Millipede CX22 Trak-Ball to version 5. There was a bug I fixed for the game starting. Then I made another bug trying to fix it. Anyhow... I found it today while I was looking at the possibility of making CX80 and Amiga versions. I was able to find some more cycles so I think CX80 and Amiga is possible. I have come up with a routine to handle both X and Y in 33 cycles worse case including the direction. The routine still needs testing but I think it will work. I will need 1 more ram location, and hopefully will have enough cycles in overscan for post processing as is. BTW, if you want to see some AMAZING graphics on the 2600, check this out. Top notch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I think you added more bugs than you fixed. V4 I noticed freezing inchworms. Also around 80,000 when there was a lot happening at the bottom, the 2 ladybugs/fleas and 2 spiders all kind of froze as well. ?? I updated Millipede CX22 Trak-Ball to version 4. There was a bug I fixed for the game starting. I found it today while I was looking at the possibility of making CX80 and Amiga versions. I was able to find some more cycles so I think CX80 and Amiga is possible. I have come up with a routine to handle both X and Y in 33 cycles worse case including the direction. The routine still needs testing but I think it will work. I will need 1 more ram location, and hopefully will have enough cycles in overscan for post processing as is. BTW, if you want to see some AMAZING graphics on the 2600, check this out. Top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Uhh... Battlezone is the home version of Battlezone. Obviously, I'm confused. The pics of "Robot Tank" look like Battlezone to me, but it's been years since I played it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) "Why can't the Atari 2600 display better graphics?" I'm loathe to answer a question with another question, but - Display better graphics than what?[..] I'd say the question implies or means "better graphics than what it is currently doing". Or in the context of the centipede example given in the first post - why is the titlescreen better looking than the gameplay screen? Now that this thread is older, it has morphed into adding trak-ball support for game-X. Anyway, those are all my questions. I know the Atari hardware is limited, but it seems like part of the reason the graphics on these games were so bad was because they weren't work on at full potential. Anyone know? Thanks in return. I suppose no one really knows the full potential of the VCS. To have a potential means you must have some idea of where you want to be. Except the VCS has always surprised us year after year with graphics, sound, and gameplay improvements. Far beyond what the designers intended. Edited October 4, 2015 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think you added more bugs than you fixed. V4 I noticed freezing inchworms. Also around 80,000 when there was a lot happening at the bottom, the 2 ladybugs/fleas and 2 spiders all kind of froze as well. ?? I updated it to Ver5. Should be fixed now. It's really a condition where everything is right on edge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I just tested the three new Trak-Ball hacks, Centipede, Missile Command and Reactor, using a brand-new CX-80 Trak-Ball that acts as a CX-22 (which seems to be most of them). Also played Missile Command CX-22 again, which I haven't played in a while. These are all awesome, and you guys are doing kick-ass work! It's a bit of a pain to find the binaries scattered throughout the thread, though. I suggest all the Trak-Ball related posts be moved to a new thread, and that the first post is maintained with current versions of the binaries. It might be better to just start a new thread, though. I'm going to have all four of these Trak-Ball games running at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I have a nice label for Missile Command, and it would be nice to have labels for the other three, if someone would like to create them. Basing them on the original artwork would be fine. If someone does create nice labels for these, I'll send you a copy of each hack that you supply label artwork for (that I use). Thanks!! ..Al 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I just tested the three new Trak-Ball hacks, Centipede, Missile Command and Reactor, using a brand-new CX-80 Trak-Ball that acts as a CX-22 (which seems to be most of them). Also played Missile Command CX-22 again, which I haven't played in a while. These are all awesome, and you guys are doing kick-ass work! It's a bit of a pain to find the binaries scattered throughout the thread, though. I suggest all the Trak-Ball related posts be moved to a new thread, and that the first post is maintained with current versions of the binaries. It might be better to just start a new thread, though. I'm going to have all four of these Trak-Ball games running at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I have a nice label for Missile Command, and it would be nice to have labels for the other three, if someone would like to create them. Basing them on the original artwork would be fine. If someone does create nice labels for these, I'll send you a copy of each hack that you supply label artwork for (that I use). Thanks!! ..Al would you bring them to Houston too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 would you bring them to Houston too? I could do that, especially since it's an arcade show first, so some of the original games are likely to be there. ..Al 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangentg Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Millipede CX22 Track-Ball, Ver 5. Millipede(CX-22_Trackball)Ver3.png Millipede(CX-22_Trackball)Ver5.zip Bug fixes, faster Y, all of the fun. There's a bug I noticed... When you hit the inchworm, instead of just the bugs going slow, your trackball movement also seems to be slowed down. This doesn't happen in the original version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangentg Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Unfortunately I have no broadband access at the moment. I will be able to check in a few days. Anyway, I got frustrated by two other projects, so I spend a little time with Reactor again. The attached versions are preliminary, most likely the controls have to be tweaked. I see two potential changes: the sensitivity might be too high as this game requires pretty precise input the momentum of the player is stopped on an axis, if the trackball is moved on that axis. Not sure if that makes the game too easy, since I can only test via Stella and mouse. Feedback is welcome. Been looking for this for a while. Many thanks! This is just about the perfect way to play Reactor (other than playing the original arcade version). I also came across a multicade with this game today (which sadly means having to use a joystick). The theme was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Been looking for this for a while. Many thanks! This is just about the perfect way to play Reactor (other than playing the original arcade version). I also came across a multicade with this game today (which sadly means having to use a joystick). The theme was awesome. You should read this thread. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243453-atari-2600-trak-ball-games/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangentg Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 You should read this thread. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243453-atari-2600-trak-ball-games/ I came here from that thread actually and also commented there. I already had the Missile Command and Millipede TB hacks so it was really Reactor that I was really looking for. Might try the star wars one at one point. Thanks anyway though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Do not use the roms posted in this thread. All the up-to-date versions are in the first post of the other thread that DrVenkman linked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I just tested the three new Trak-Ball hacks, Centipede, Missile Command and Reactor, using a brand-new CX-80 Trak-Ball that acts as a CX-22 (which seems to be most of them). Also played Missile Command CX-22 again, which I haven't played in a while. These are all awesome, and you guys are doing kick-ass work! It's a bit of a pain to find the binaries scattered throughout the thread, though. I suggest all the Trak-Ball related posts be moved to a new thread, and that the first post is maintained with current versions of the binaries. It might be better to just start a new thread, though. I'm going to have all four of these Trak-Ball games running at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I have a nice label for Missile Command, and it would be nice to have labels for the other three, if someone would like to create them. Basing them on the original artwork would be fine. If someone does create nice labels for these, I'll send you a copy of each hack that you supply label artwork for (that I use). Thanks!! ..Al I was thinking, can we get the binaries for everything someplace easy to find? I got a new computer and for the life of me, Cannot find the Pacman 4K and 8K roms in the threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I was thinking, can we get the binaries for everything someplace easy to find? I got a new computer and for the life of me, Cannot find the Pacman 4K and 8K roms in the threads Everything you will ever need for the VCS/2600 homebrews can be found on my List : https://1drv.ms/x/s!ArXu52QZivTrgVbQayev1Wc1QprN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Everything you will ever need for the VCS/2600 homebrews can be found on my List : https://1drv.ms/x/s!ArXu52QZivTrgVbQayev1Wc1QprN Unfortunately you will have to migrate soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Unfortunately you will have to migrate soon. Wow I didn't know about that - thanks. But I don't use docs.com, my file is on OneDrive - i wonder if that is going away too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 That will stay, as far as i can tell. Sorry for causing confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Nice. Thanks! Everything you will ever need for the VCS/2600 homebrews can be found on my List : https://1drv.ms/x/s!ArXu52QZivTrgVbQayev1Wc1QprN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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