I meet an engineer who used to work for Atari

[SwampFox56]

I meet an engineer who used to work for Atari and he told me that he worked on every Atari product up until the 7800 when the company was bought by some private family. He told me that the Atari 2600 was there biggest hit by far, and even after he left the company to go work for Commodore, still recived a whole bunch of prototypes, including a COMPLETED Atari Jaguar 2, along with 1 prototype testing cartridge that had a whole bunch of sound tests, and graphics tests on it. It wasnt in a case, but the board was completed. He also said that he has everything Atari EVER made. He has over 12000 Atari Cartridges, and every single system/computer Atari made.

 

Anyways, I know that has nothing to do about Atari 5200 but this s what he said about the 5200

 

The Atari 5200 was our best console. The thing that didn't do it justice was the controller, and lack of games for it. The Atari 5200 was almost identical to the Atari 800 computer, except it had a ramped up CPU, and Graphics chip. What the 5200 should of had was a keyboard, and a floppy drive attached to it. It was our second most powerful system, but what ruined it for consumers was the controllers.

 

He also said...

 

"The Atari 7800, was just a slightly modified version of the 2600, that had updated graphics, and thats it. The private party that bought Atari saw the success of the 2600, and wanted to just resell it under a different name. This disgusted me, so I left Atari to go work for Commodore."

 

 

He also said...

 

"The Atari Jaguar was the most powerful 64-bit console in that generation, but no developers would take advantage of it power because it was so hard to develop software for it. Which is really to bad, because the Jaguar was an amazing system."

 

 

 

These thing are what an exengineer from Atari said, now this was 3 weeks ago, so its not exactly what he said, but its pretty darn close

Edited April 9, 2011 by SwampFox56

[0078265317]

cool

[+wood_jl]

I'm certainly no engineer, but he must not be much of one, either. The 5200 did not have a "ramped up CPU and graphics chip" over the 800. The 7800 was not a 2600. If he was an engineer who didn't "make the cut" into the Tramiel-era Atari, it was probably a good job to get rid of him.

[SwampFox56]

I'm certainly no engineer, but he must not be much of one, either. The 5200 did not have a "ramped up CPU and graphics chip" over the 800. The 7800 was not a 2600. If he was an engineer who didn't "make the cut" into the Tramiel-era Atari, it was probably a good job to get rid of him.

 

 

He was an actual engineer, and that is what he said. I think an actual engineer would know more than you.

Edited April 9, 2011 by SwampFox56

[+wood_jl]

I'm certainly no engineer, but he must not be much of one, either. The 5200 did not have a "ramped up CPU and graphics chip" over the 800. The 7800 was not a 2600. If he was an engineer who didn't "make the cut" into the Tramiel-era Atari, it was probably a good job to get rid of him.

 

 

He was an actual engineer, and that is what he said. I think an actual engineer would know more than you.

 

Do you even KNOW what CPU and "graphics chip" are in either machine? Are you even familiar with the 2600 and 7800? Evidently you are not, so what "you think" is pretty worthless, as is your "engineer." Why don't you try looking some of this stuff? Start with Wikipedia.

[+wood_jl]

Here, let me help you....click here....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_5200#Controllers

 

Read the part under "Internal differences between the 5200 and the 400/800" and then please quote the parts about the differences you speak of, since you're more knowledgeable than I.

[SwampFox56]

Here, let me help you....click here....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_5200#Controllers

 

Read the part under "Internal differences between the 5200 and the 400/800" and then please quote the parts about the differences you speak of, since you're more knowledgeable than I.

 

Well EXCUSE ME. I just remembered him saying that the 5200 was very similar to the Atari 800

[jd_1138]

What the 5200 should of had was a keyboard, and a floppy drive attached to it. It was our second most powerful system, but what ruined it for consumers was the controllers.

 

I've been saying that for years about the controllers. The 5200/7800 controllers were ass. I can't believe Atari shipped with those. Ridiculous. Probably just to save 50 cents.

[GroovyBee]

April 1st was last week . I think you've been had because the information given in your first post is light on facts (to say the least) and very heavy on personal opinion.

[DracIsBack]

I meet an engineer who used to work for Atari

 

Sounds like he might have been pulling your leg a wee bit.

 

when the company was bought by some private family.

 

if he worked for Atari and Commodore, the name of said 'private' family would have been something that we knew and remembered.

 

still recived a whole bunch of prototypes, including a COMPLETED Atari Jaguar 2, along with 1 prototype testing cartridge that had a whole bunch of sound tests, and graphics tests on it. It wasnt in a case, but the board was completed.

 

The Tramiels (said family) were legendarily cheap and I find it really hard to believe they'd send any prototypes to an engineer gone 10 years earlier (especially one who doesn't remember their name). Especially something as top secret as a Jaguar 2. They often wouldn't even send pre-release review copies to journalists because they were so cheap. There's a memorandum somewhere about Atari getting served about trademark infringement from the Jaguar car guys and in it, it basically says "Sam does not want to send them a system".

 

"The Atari 7800, was just a slightly modified version of the 2600, that had updated graphics, and thats it.

 

If he's an engineer, this is really surprising. You might as well say that the NES and Apple II are 'slightly modified versions of the 2600 as well' with this simplistic logic. I know it's out there on the net, but it really is kind of goofy thinking.

 

Just for fun:

 

Processor:

- The 2600 uses a stripped down 6507 processor, running at 1.19 Mhz

- The 7800 uses a 6502C processor, running at 1.79 Mhz

- The NES uses a Ricoh 2A03 processor, which is a 6502 running at 1.79 Mhz

 

Memory:

- The 2600 has 128 bytes of RAM

- The 7800 has 4K of RAM

- The NES has 2K of video RAM and 2K of RAM

 

Graphics:

- The 2600 uses the TIA for graphics

- The 7800 uses the MARIA GPU for all graphics in 7800 mode. TIA and MARIA are nothing alike as far as graphics processing units go

- The NES uses a PPU for graphics. The TIA and PPU and MARIA are all entirely different graphics architectures

 

Cartridges:

- The 2600 has cartridges that feature 4K banks of memory. Larger games bank switch between 4K blocks

- The 7800 has cartridges that feature 48K banks of memory. Larger games bank switch between larger blocks than 4K

- The NES has cartridges that feature comparable banks to the 7800 in terms of size, though I believe they split each bank into two areas - one for program data and one for title data

 

Sound:

- The 2600 uses the TIA (which generates graphics) for sound and can generate 2 channels.

- The 7800 uses the TIA for sound as well (2 channels). The original designers built the console with the intention that many games would be able to have a POKEY sound chip (additional 4 channels) on the cartridge. Ballblazer, which was one of the early 7800 titles being worked on pre-Tramiel takeover had this as a proof of concept. They were also working on a cheaper successor (GUMBY) to make this more common. Tramiel cost cutting killed what GCC intended as far as sound.

- NES uses 5 channel sound hardware built into the RICOH processor.

 

 

There are other nuances, but this mentality has always bothered me. The fact that the 7800 has a completely and utterly different graphics architecture is kind of a big deal and big difference. Other things like the memory, cartridge sizes and processor bump can apply just as easily to other systems as well.

 

 

The private party that bought Atari saw the success of the 2600, and wanted to just resell it under a different name. This disgusted me, so I left Atari to go work for Commodore."

 

Was he talking about the 2600Jr or trying to say that the 7800 was really a 2600?

[HammR25]

I meet an engineer who used to work for Atari and he told me that he worked on every Atari product up until the 7800 when the company was bought by some private family. He told me that the Atari 2600 was there biggest hit by far, and even after he left the company to go work for Commodore, still recived a whole bunch of prototypes, including a COMPLETED Atari Jaguar 2, along with 1 prototype testing cartridge that had a whole bunch of sound tests, and graphics tests on it. It wasnt in a case, but the board was completed. He also said that he has everything Atari EVER made. He has over 12000 Atari Cartridges, and every single system/computer Atari made.

You should ask to see his imaginary collection.

[jetset]

What the 5200 should of had was a keyboard, and a floppy drive attached to it. It was our second most powerful system, but what ruined it for consumers was the controllers.

 

I've been saying that for years about the controllers. The 5200/7800 controllers were ass. I can't believe Atari shipped with those. Ridiculous. Probably just to save 50 cents.

 

Or more likely they hadn't anticipated so many gamers who couldn't handle an advanced controller. The 5200 controllers were fine from an ergonomic/playability standpoint. There were issues with durability, that being the fire buttons tended to wear down, but I'm willing to bet otherwise they spent too much trying to make them too advanced rather than trying to save 50 cents. Unfortunately too many people just weren't good enough gamers and they got a bad rap.

The 7800 controllers as well were fine though a little stiff and poor positioning of the fire buttons. Still all it takes is a little ability and maybe a little practice and you're fine.

 

I guess if you can't handle driving a manual transmission Porsche, you should stick to a Taurus or something with an automatic...

I hear the 2600 sticks are perfect in their simplicity. Up, down, left, right, and one fire button. Usually perfect for the amateur gamer.

Edited April 9, 2011 by jetset

[Mirage]

Exactly what jetset said regarding the 5200's controllers.

 

This "engineer" was heavy on opinion, low on facts for sure. And lots of incorrect statements. I don't believe the "engineer" part at all.

 

And this especially makes no sense: "What the 5200 should of had was a keyboard, and a floppy drive attached to it."

 

What? Then it would be an Atari 8-bit computer, pretty much, which they already made. That's a totally pointless statement to make.

[SwampFox56]

What he also did say was that he was working on a prototype 2600 that had touch based sensors on the 2600 itself as the controller, but he also said that this never made it out of prototyping phase. He also said that in some year (i dont remember) Atari invented this revolutionary cartridge writting system. Where in a store, there would have been a kiosk that said "Atari Games" on it, and you would have been able to select the game cartridge you wanted right from that computer, and it would have dispensed it for you.

 

He said the revolutionary thing about it was, that the kiosk would of had blank cartridges inside of it that had read/write capabilities. And what the kiosk would do is, it would download the game from Atari's server, and write it to the blank cartridge right there in the store. Then it would put a label on it, and dispense it.

 

He said that he wished Atari would of patented this.

 

Again I am only repeating what he said.

[Mirage]

When the credibility is shot when discussing actual products, anything said about unknown products is quite uninteresting and pointless.

[Bryan]

It's quite possible this guy was a real Atari engineer and SwampFox56 is quoting him accurately. Us fans live in a world of history and trivia, but an employee may not have known much going on outside of his department and has probably forgotten more than he remembers. Also, don't assume that "engineer" means he dealt with the product as a whole. He could have designed some plastic pieces or RF shielding and was never that connected to the actual guts of the machine. Sounds like he still had connections for a while after leaving, though. Engineers are also known for living in a world of their own.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Bryan

[tz101]

I am a mechanical engineer and those sound like fairly vague statements coming from a former Atari engineer. Not questioning whether or not you actually ran into this guy, just the validity of his story. After all, there are many out there who claim knowledge on subjects they are really not studied in.

 

As for the 5200 controllers: A family that was friends with ours in the early 80's got their 5200 and games at system launch. I was over at their home multiple times and played Centipede and Pac Man with them on the stock controllers. Never did they, nor myself, complain about the controllers. I have refurbed many 5200 controllers and they actually hold up well to most of the games thrown their way. I played some Space Dungeon and Robotron 2084 last night, and was highly impressed by the dual controller setup in those games, along with how well the 5200 stock controllers handled the separate directional and firing functions.

[HammR25]

Whether he worked at Atari or not the guy is a classic BS artist. I want to see his copy of the 7800 Electrocop proto. If you ever see the guy again you should ask him if he ever saw the long lost 2600 Knight Rider proto.

[SwampFox56]

Whether he worked at Atari or not the guy is a classic BS artist. I want to see his copy of the 7800 Electrocop proto. If you ever see the guy again you should ask him if he ever saw the long lost 2600 Knight Rider proto.

 

He said he saw the SwordQuest: Air World Proto

[jaybird3rd]

He said he saw the SwordQuest: Air World Proto

Uhhh ... yeah. Sure he did. According to Tod Frye himself (who was contacted after a fake "SwordQuest: Airworld prototype" was "discovered" about nine years ago), Airworld was in a very early stage of development and was not even playable:

 

airworld was started, but never completed. the screens shown on this website (one which showed "screenshots" of the fake prototype which were later found to be doctored screen captures from an emulator; the website is now offline) are variants of the fireworld concepts.

 

airworld prototypes never reached the playable stage. in the real airworld, there was a screen where one flies about, and then centers on a hexagram on the horizon. one then flies into the hexagram, which zooms to fill the screen, and then plays one of 64 scenarios - one per hexagram.

 

[...]

 

AirWorld did get started, and i was digging it, but i got asked to port Xevious to the 2600 after 2 other programmers gave up on it. The Xevious port had some REALLY cool 2600 tech...

 

AirWorld was based on the I Ching. As far as i got, it was never fully playable. But i was psyched to be doing it. One flew around in a (sort of) first person flying scenario with 64 hexagrams on the horizon, dodging some stuff in the air, and picking some other stuff. When you picked up a certain token, you entered the 'in hexagram' phase, where you locked on a hexagram of your choice on the horizon, and it zoomed up to fill the screen, where you played one of 64 simple games (the 64 simple games never got finished, too ambitious).

 

[...]

 

There is no AirWorld. I would be really surprised if it were even possible to find the code for the initial Airworld prototypes. But if anyone ever does find them, let me know- maybe they are near my 2600 BallBlazers prototype - 2600 BallBlazers was the coolest 2600 tech i ever did, and i have lost my only listing of the code

(This was pieced together from two separate posts in the thread I linked to; the remarks in italics are my own.)

[Corby]

Swampfox...umm who are you trying to fool here? All this info your telling us is already a fact! We know this! Sounds like ur just trying to make yourself sound good by saying you "Talked" to a former Atari engineer, which is crap! And this whole "some private family" please give us a break man!

 

Cut the sh-t will ya!

[bennybingo]

I heard that this same "Atari engineer" has an Atari 10400 prototype too! It's in mothballs in his attic. But don't get too excited...It's only a 7800 repackaged to sell to the 2600 fans. They did manage to update the controller problem a bit:

 

 

 

[Koopa64]

I have some serious news for you all.

 

Recently I got in touch with a well known Atari Engineer called Kahn Mebbe. Odd name, but his information is golden. He told me Atari was actually planning on killing the VCS in favor of joining forces with Mattel with their Intellivision (which would have been called the Atarivision). However, when Nintendo told Atari about Donkey Kong, Atari backed away from the Mattel deal because they thought Donkey Kong wouldn't play as well on the Intellivision, so they stayed with the VCS.

 

Also, did any of you know the name "Atari 2600" came from the number of mail complaints Atari received over the decision to make the Atari 8-Bit a computer? Great stuff!

[gdement]

It's quite possible this guy was a real Atari engineer and SwampFox56 is quoting him accurately. Us fans live in a world of history and trivia, but an employee may not have known much going on outside of his department and has probably forgotten more than he remembers. Also, don't assume that "engineer" means he dealt with the product as a whole. He could have designed some plastic pieces or RF shielding and was never that connected to the actual guts of the machine. Sounds like he still had connections for a while after leaving, though. Engineers are also known for living in a world of their own.

I agree. What the guy said is largely inaccurate, but we're talking about stuff that happened over 25 years ago. If he's who he says he is then I wouldn't expect him to have a fair-minded view of the 7800. GCC was working for Warner corporate, essentially in competition with Atari's own engineers. I don't think the Atari guys would see them as a friend or were in a mood to "like" the 7800. Than Tramiel took over and he got fired, not surprising he'd be bitter.

Of course I'm skeptical of him saying he "left" in protest over the (2600Jr?), I think he just got canned like everyone else.

 

The lack of detail, and fact everything he said is generic internet lore does make me suspect the guy's real background, but I'm not convinced that he's phony either. Could just be an honest guy with a faded memory and lots of personal emotion wrapped up in certain consoles.

 

He is incorrect in saying the 5200 CPU/GPU are enhanced over the PC version, but there are some possible innocent explanations for him thinking or remembering it this way:

1) early Atari computers didn't have the customized "6502C", this was added on later models and also used in the 5200. It's not any faster, but it is different than the original chip.

2) early Atari computers had the CTIA, the GTIA came later and was also used in the 5200.

Edited April 10, 2011 by gdement

[SwampFox56]

guys lol I was being sarcastic