marc.hull Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Over the long weekend between changing shocks, oil, belts etc... (my oldest son just got his first hoopty..) I got started on my version of an advanced sound list player. I did not get as far as I wanted but I managed to finish all the base musical stuff and a couple of commands. The file is an EA3 executable on a SSSD .dsk that plays a short ditty. I will post more as I progress and post the source on my site when I am finished. As it stands the player understands notes, half steps, octaves, volume commands, note release and end. I have several changes to the initial specs and several more commands to go. Hopefully I can get this wrapped up next week and begin work on an editor as it is a bit of a pain to hand assemble a tune. ASLP.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) great !... when a SID to TI converter Edited June 1, 2011 by rocky007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 great !... when a SID to TI converter SID songs to 9919 ? never happen. Sid songs rely on 6581/8580 functions. It would be like trying to get one of those mechanical cymbal banging monkeys to play a piano. SID Songs to TI99/4A ????.... DSAPSC.COM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 yes for sure, all SID effects won't be present, but i su^ppose some simple melodies could be played fine on TI especially when i heard the result of converted sound in PSGMOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) yes for sure, all SID effects won't be present, but i su^ppose some simple melodies could be played fine on TI especially when i heard the result of converted sound in PSGMOD Sure.... Mary had a little lamb should port really well . In reality the two chips are so far away from each other not only in design but in concept that trying to convert a SID tune to a 9919 tune with any kind of consistency would be near impossible IMHO. But anyone is welcome to try. The SMS sound chip is identical to the TI's so those songs stand a much better chance of sounding good than SID songs. The ASLP is an attempt just to bring a little more sophisticated list player to the 9919 using music concepts as in reality even sound effects are music. I think when it's done it should be a fairly usable piece of software even for the novice. Won't be a SID Player but it also won't be the console ISR player either Edited June 1, 2011 by marc.hull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 i've one question : how sampled sound can be played on TI soundchip ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+adamantyr Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 No source code? I have to do a music player for my opening intro sequence eventually, and if somebody's got something that works already, cool. But I'd like to see if the code would work for my needs too... Adamantyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 No source code? I have to do a music player for my opening intro sequence eventually, and if somebody's got something that works already, cool. But I'd like to see if the code would work for my needs too... Adamantyr When it's a bit further then I'll post the source, no problem . It may run as high as 1.5K though and your currently memory poor IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+adamantyr Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 When it's a bit further then I'll post the source, no problem . It may run as high as 1.5K though and your currently memory poor IIRC. The intro won't be part of the main program, it will be on a separate disk exclusively for creating new games and characters. Adamantyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 i've one question : how sampled sound can be played on TI soundchip ? Hmmmm... where are you getting "sampled" from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 i've one question : how sampled sound can be played on TI soundchip ? Direct sound We can send sound directly to the speaker via the sound chip, without using the generators. This is achieved with CRU bit 24 in the console: it is normally used to control whether the input from a cassette tape recorder will be audible, but thanks to a pull-up resistor it can also be used to generate sound even if no recorder is installed. SoundFX A different method was used by Barry Boone in his excellent SoundFX program. He sets the maximum frequency (>001) on the three sound generators and then modulates the volume (identically for all three). Obviously, this implies carefully controlled timing loops so as to generate the required frequency. ref.: http://nouspikel.group.shef.ac.uk//ti99/tms9919.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 great !... when a SID to TI converter SID songs to 9919 ? never happen. Sid songs rely on 6581/8580 functions. It would be like trying to get one of those mechanical cymbal banging monkeys to play a piano. SID Songs to TI99/4A ????.... DSAPSC.COM Did someone say Never....? Classic99 can actually already convert on the fly thanks to some hacks in the code. You have to make numerous real-time debugger tweaks to activate it, for a number of reasons it is not valuable to activate generically (for starters you can't get the data out yet), but... oh hell, a video is probably the way to show you this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOuNuRfKyE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Wow.. a lot of replies between starting my video and finishing it, hehe. Using the PSGMod music player that I ported to the TI and the tracker that comes with it, you can convert VGM music for the Sega Master System and Game Gear directly to play, and they will sound pretty much identical (the only difference is a slightly different noise pattern and no Game Gear stereo). SMS Power has archives of hundreds of tunes - rips from nearly every Sega game. VGM is a pretty simple format (also documented at SMS Power), and converting it to other formats is pretty straight forward.. that's why my MOD converter outputs VGM (also so it's easy to play it back quickly from Windows to hear how it turned out). So whatever Marc comes up with, we can convert to it. As for playing sampled sound, that 'single bit' that you can use just toggles on the cassette audio line - it's somewhat faint and very low quality. You can get fairly good sound playback by using the Sound F/X trick - you then get up to 4 bit sound on one channel, or with clever trickery you can get even better resolution by mixing the channels (my estimate is that the payoff levels out around 10 bits but I haven't proven it yet.) To do this, you set the highest frequency like Sometimes99er said, then in a fixed time loop, vary the volume. You need about 4000 cycles per second to get anything recognizable, 8000 cycles per second is telephone quality, and Barry figures Sound F/X got about 12kHz (iirc) which sounded pretty good. Note there will always be some aliasing because of the output frequency, which is about 46,000HZ, but it's the best we can do on our chip. There's also PWM, but we can't really hit the chip fast enough to see much benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky007 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 thanks for all the infos, it's very interesting... using the audio line trick leave the 3 audio channel free. do you think it's possible to use audio line just for digi drum by exemple and in same time play music on the 3 channel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 great !... when a SID to TI converter SID songs to 9919 ? never happen. Sid songs rely on 6581/8580 functions. It would be like trying to get one of those mechanical cymbal banging monkeys to play a piano. SID Songs to TI99/4A ????.... DSAPSC.COM Did someone say Never....? Classic99 can actually already convert on the fly thanks to some hacks in the code. You have to make numerous real-time debugger tweaks to activate it, for a number of reasons it is not valuable to activate generically (for starters you can't get the data out yet), but... oh hell, a video is probably the way to show you this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOuNuRfKyE Pretty cool trick Tursi but I would say never is still a pretty good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 thanks for all the infos, it's very interesting... using the audio line trick leave the 3 audio channel free. do you think it's possible to use audio line just for digi drum by exemple and in same time play music on the 3 channel ? Yes, but it will take far less CPU time to use the noise channel for drums. All you get on that CRU line is a single 'tick' when you change it - to get tones or noise you have to trigger it repeatedly with the CPU and CRU. The one title I'm aware of that ever used it is Perfect Push, on the title page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Pretty cool trick Tursi but I would say never is still a pretty good bet. Based on what? Sounds pretty converted to me. Conversion includes incorporating the limitations of the target. "Already" trumps "never". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Pretty cool trick Tursi but I would say never is still a pretty good bet. Based on what? Sounds pretty converted to me. Conversion includes incorporating the limitations of the target. "Already" trumps "never". Not quite a conversion...... see video.... unless we count the hot dogs I had for dinner.... I am sure they will be converted in the morning. Care for a Friday frankfurter ?? Good try Mike but you can't build a Corvette out of Yugo parts. That's not even close. I would imagine that there is a better version of JBG out there in TI BASIC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Not quite a conversion...... see video.... All that video proves is that you didn't watch my entire video. It's not going to sound exactly the same, obviously. There'd be no point in converting it if it did, just digitize it. I think it's quite recognizable (except the intro), and my comments already address how to deal with the detuning, if it were important. I already included a playback of the original for comparison's sake in my video. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Not quite a conversion...... see video.... All that video proves is that you didn't watch my entire video. It's not going to sound exactly the same, obviously. There'd be no point in converting it if it did, just digitize it. I think it's quite recognizable (except the intro), and my comments already address how to deal with the detuning, if it were important. I already included a playback of the original for comparison's sake in my video. Well your correct about not watching the video completely. You see I have a bit of a personal attachment to the SID project and seeing the results of the "conversion" kind of disgusted me. I felt it diminished the whole thing. I'm a bit thin skinned there I will admit, my problem not yours so don't take it personally. Fine..... You win. You have successfully converted a SID song to the 9919. Quality and resemblance to the original out the door. A mimeograph of a Xerox of a fuzzy photo of a page of a book taken a dusk counts. I'll watch the entire video this evening and apologize for arguing any points that you addressed in it that I am rambling about now. My office computer has no sound or I would do it now. Edited June 3, 2011 by marc.hull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Not quite a conversion...... see video.... All that video proves is that you didn't watch my entire video. It's not going to sound exactly the same, obviously. There'd be no point in converting it if it did, just digitize it. I think it's quite recognizable (except the intro), and my comments already address how to deal with the detuning, if it were important. I already included a playback of the original for comparison's sake in my video. Well your correct about not watching the video completely. You see I have a bit of a personal attachment to the SID project and seeing the results of the "conversion" kind of disgusted me. I felt it diminished the whole thing. I'm a bit thin skinned there I will admit, my problem not yours so don't take it personally. Fine..... You win. You have successfully converted a SID song to the 9919. Quality and resemblance to the original out the door. A mimeograph of a Xerox of a fuzzy photo of a page of a book taken a dusk counts. I'll watch the entire video this evening and apologize for arguing any points that you addressed in it that I am rambling about now. My office computer has no sound or I would do it now. Hmmmmm...... Watched the video. Not only is the 9919 sound awful but the SID emulation is not very good as you mentioned. One additional point in fact. The player software was not written using Cl99 as you seem to allude to. It was written and tested on my console. Tim added some loader code with his Geneve (IIRC) and Ernie did the front end with PC-99 and his console. For the record You did help with the mass CGSC file conversion and I appreciate that. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Well your correct about not watching the video completely. You see I have a bit of a personal attachment to the SID project and seeing the results of the "conversion" kind of disgusted me. I felt it diminished the whole thing. I'm a bit thin skinned there I will admit, my problem not yours so don't take it personally. Fine..... You win. You have successfully converted a SID song to the 9919. Quality and resemblance to the original out the door. A mimeograph of a Xerox of a fuzzy photo of a page of a book taken a dusk counts. I'll watch the entire video this evening and apologize for arguing any points that you addressed in it that I am rambling about now. My office computer has no sound or I would do it now. Don't bother, Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 One additional point in fact. The player software was not written using Cl99 as you seem to allude to. It was written and tested on my console. Tim added some loader code with his Geneve (IIRC) and Ernie did the front end with PC-99 and his console. For the record You did help with the mass CGSC file conversion and I appreciate that. I have no idea where the player was written, and never said that I did. You did, however, ask me to add support to Classic99 for it. We also went back and forth quite a bit on the hardware design, in case you've forgotten that point. I don't feel that you aprpeciate very much, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc.hull Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 I have no idea where the player was written, and never said that I did. You did, however, ask me to add support to Classic99 for it. We also went back and forth quite a bit on the hardware design, in case you've forgotten that point. I don't feel that you aprpeciate very much, to be honest. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "we added Support so we could test the software." If I misunderstood then I apologize. As far as asking you to do anything to CL99, perhaps you better check your emails. I sent you a wire wrapped card (on my behest) and provided the needed info to interface said card in CL99 (at your request) so that you could help (again at my request) on software development (which you said you would try to do after you got the SID interfaced to CL99 and you found some time.) Never happened, no big deal. People get busy we all have our lives to live. As far as card development.... I did ping questions off of many people. You did answer some but to be honest your answers tended to be a bit over my head and on the purely academic side of things. Doesn't really matter as they whole project hasn't seemed to have taken off at all. Mike.....I don't tell people I appreciate their efforts if I don't mean it. So I will state again I do appreciate what help you did provide but if you expect me to bend over and kiss your ass then your out of your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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