What is the quintessential Atari game?

[Animan]

TU-TU-TU-TU-TURMOIL!

[+Random Terrain]

Sure they do. That game is called "Grand Theft Auto III." It's got a lot of organized randomness, a sandbox world, no score, low stress... and it mostly stinks! Oh, and it has about a million clones, including some starring Spiderman. They all stink, IMO.

Have you played any of those games? If you play through the 'story,' it's the same old thing. If you fail a mission, you must do it all over again and again and again until you complete it or you won't be able to continue.

 

 

 

 

And while I agree with a few of your notions, "player-abuse" is one I disagree with to my core. Many people *thrive* on stress. Otherwise, there would be no O.R. surgeons, or astronauts. In fact... since the conversation now seems to be about making grandiose statements... I'll say that confronting a stressful (albeit simulated) situation and the joy you get from overcoming it is the soul of ALL games. Football is a war without bullets, and chess is a silent debate at the end of the world. In that spirit, here's a quote for you:

 

"Without STRESS, there is no game."

- jrok, 2011

But I thought you said there was NO right answer? You just shot yourself in the foot.

 

I never said that all stressful situations should be stripped from games. I'm talking about the overuse of things like frustration.

 

And I don't know what the big deal is about posting a couple of quotes that explain what I'm trying to say. If I would have paraphrased them, one of you would have probably jumped on me for not being original. "Next time post the original quotes instead of making it look like they were your own words."

 

If the player truly feels better after playing a game and not just because he got a moment of closure pleasure, the game designer did a good job. If the player feels abused, anxious, or irritated, even after getting his closure pleasure, the game designer should quit and go sell shoes.

 

 

Now I'm going to stop procrastinating here and go convert data for my random-ish maze. Since you guys love quotes so much, I'll leave you with an old one of mine:

 

You're not making a quarter gobbling arcade game so why be lazy and use the same old frustrating "Die and Remember" style of game making? I talked to one D & R game designer about a game he made that had no save or password feature and he said that he likes that kind of game because it's challenging and makes him feel good when he beats the game like someone would when they climb a mountain. He must not understand that when people climb a mountain and slip a few inches, they don't have to go back down to the bottom of the mountain and start all over again. They just keep climbing.

 

Even having a save feature can be worthless if you make it part of the game. Making people get to a save point or any other lame thing is just stupid. People have lives and should be able to save their game at any time. It's a courtesy. It shows you have respect for the lives of your players.

 

Sometimes people have to stop playing your Earth shattering game to do something in the real world. It's not fun to almost make it through a difficult level and die right before you can save your place.

 

Most players don't yell, "Oh boy! I get to do that all over again! What a great challenging game! I could go out to dinner or see a movie with my family tonight, but I get to stay home instead and play this level over and over again until I can save it! If I lose all my lives before I can save my game I'll have to finish this level plus the three others before it, this is great fun! The game designer has turned me into his trained monkey, whee! Thank you, oh god of programming! Please punish me some more! Maybe next time instead of making a game, you could just beat me with a porcupine!"

 

~Duane Alan Hahn

[+Random Terrain]

Dragon's Lair fits your description of a "Static Action Puzzle Toilet Paper Game" perfectly and yet you are still incorrect about this type of gameplay being a bad design.

I have to go, but I will take the time to say that although the game was pretty, it sucked big hairy, sweaty, greasy, unwashed balls.

[jrok]

Sure they do. That game is called "Grand Theft Auto III." It's got a lot of organized randomness, a sandbox world, no score, low stress... and it mostly stinks! Oh, and it has about a million clones, including some starring Spiderman. They all stink, IMO.

Have you played any of those games? If you play through the 'story,' it's the same old thing. If you fail a mission, you must do it all over again and again and again until you complete it or you won't be able to continue.

 

Oh but you can do them in any order you want, though. That's the important part, right? Nobody "leading you through dance steps."

 

"Without STRESS, there is no game."

- jrok, 2011

But I thought you said there was NO right answer? You just shot yourself in the foot.

 

HOW MANY BONUS POINTS DO I GET FOR THAT?! FOOT SHOT BONUS = 10,000 PTS, RIGHT??!!

 

I never said that all stressful situations should be stripped from games. I'm talking about the overuse of things like frustration.

 

1. You say that all the time.

2. One man's frustration is another man's challenge!

 

You've also said that games shouldn't have scores, and other stuff I disagree with. It's no biggie. I just think YOU ARE HITLER AND SHOULD BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS, UP TO AND INCLUDING TIME-TRAVELING CYBORGS.

 

And I don't know what the big deal is about posting a couple of quotes that explain what I'm trying to say. If I would have paraphrased them, one of you would have probably jumped on me for not being original. "Next time post the original quotes instead of making it look like they were your own words."

 

I guess it's not a big deal, but sometimes it seems like you're trying to give your own ideas the color of authority. Not saying you are wrong, just engaging in the marketplace of ideas

 

 

EDIT: P.S. I agree that Dragon's Lair smoked the long pole down to the base. But, as Scumsoft seems to imply, the market disagreed with me. Novelty is a big part of game design, and not necessarily a "bad" part.

Edited August 18, 2011 by jrok

[Mxyzptlk]

I had no interest in playing Dragon's Lair when it came out. First of all, I couldn't waste my precious quarters on it, but mostly, once you get beyond the awesomeness of how great it looked at the time, the game didn't seem very exciting at all... boring, in fact. I wasn't impressed by those who got far in the game... I assumed it was just because they spent so much money on it.

Out of curiousity, what did you waste your precious quarters on?

[+5-11under]

I had no interest in playing Dragon's Lair when it came out. First of all, I couldn't waste my precious quarters on it, but mostly, once you get beyond the awesomeness of how great it looked at the time, the game didn't seem very exciting at all... boring, in fact. I wasn't impressed by those who got far in the game... I assumed it was just because they spent so much money on it.

Out of curiousity, what did you waste your precious quarters on?

At around the same time, at the same arcade, I probably stuck with Asteroids, Phoenix, Galaxian, or Pole Position more than anything else. At other arcades or stores, it was Star Castle, Deluxe Space Invaders, and later, Time Pilot, Zippy Race, Gauntlet, and Rampage.

 

edit: the key is I wasted the quarters more slowly. This particular Dragon's Lair was 50 cents, while everything else was 25 cents.

Edited August 18, 2011 by 5-11under

[Knubberrub]

I had no interest in playing Dragon's Lair when it came out. First of all, I couldn't waste my precious quarters on it, but mostly, once you get beyond the awesomeness of how great it looked at the time, the game didn't seem very exciting at all... boring, in fact. I wasn't impressed by those who got far in the game... I assumed it was just because they spent so much money on it.

Out of curiousity, what did you waste your precious quarters on?

At around the same time, at the same arcade, I probably stuck with Asteroids, Phoenix, Galaxian, or Pole Position more than anything else. At other arcades or stores, it was Star Castle, Deluxe Space Invaders, and later, Time Pilot, Zippy Race, Gauntlet, and Rampage.

 

edit: the key is I wasted the quarters more slowly. This particular Dragon's Lair was 50 cents, while everything else was 25 cents.

 

Yeah, that was basically my experience of Dragon's Lair as well: it was pretty amazing to see it at the time but, after playing it a few times, it just became really expensive in a very short space of time and there were too many other games I wanted to play.

 

There also didn't seem to be any logic to where you're meant to move, from what I remember, so you had no chance to increase your probability of survival when you first encountered new bits which made it a bit pointless (and expensive) for me, after the novelty of it wore off.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Knubberrub

[doyman]

Asteroids or Space Invaders.