bomberpunk Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 yeah... ...so you should also add Oink! to your list too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 This Harmony/real cart argument has taken place before. You must be new, this type of discussion never goes away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I know I'm beating a dead horse here . . . I love my carts, I'm just shy of owning over 100 unique titles, but at the same time Harmony lets me play on a real console which is vastly difference from hardware emulation and it lets me participate in the weekly HSC without trying to find the cartridge locally or depending on an emulator and using my keyboard for controls . . . for me at least its just not the same. Also when it comes to testing my code out for my homebrew game I'm making, theres nothing like testing on real hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Well, I don't want to start a lot of debate - especially if it's a forum perenial. As someone has already said, this is supposed to be fun. I can only state my own opinion. Earlier I wrote that Harmony is one step removed from the real deal, and I stick by that. Emulation is two steps removed, but it also offers a whole lot more (I thought of another one in the mean time - being able to use whatever controller I want, configured the way I want). I've nothing against Harmony - and if people are happy with it, well that's enough to be going on with. Personally it just wouldn't give me the real deal. I can't quite appreciate that it's worth an $80 investment to be one step removed, when I could invest just a little bit more and have all the things I listed earlier. And given a laptop would easily interface with modern TV's - well, it's a no brainer for me. Why buy a Harmony for the VCS, and another for the 7800, and presumably another for the 5200? I can do all that today - if you don't mind being two steps removed, which suits me. I won't invest in a Harmony cartridge because I'm not won over by the argument. I've been buying up kit for a while - mainly Atari VCS stuff. I'll keep on doing that. But - seriously - this thread did prompt me to go through a little thinking, and I'm going to make the laptop thing a reality. It's just so easy to do, and so flexible. And if I'm not going to be running the real deal, it's close enough. Anyway, let's just let it go at that. ps: I can't say I've noticed joystick lag in Stella.... but that's a topic for elsewhere, no doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Anyway back on topic! Games you should own . . . here's my list: Juno First (Homebrew game . . . and freaking awesome) Berzerk (My favorite 2600 game) Pitfall Galaxian Gorf Wizard of Wor Solaris Defender Defender II Gravitar Dark Chambers Q*Bert Missile Command Pac-Man Ms. Pac-man I know I missing alot, but those games keep my entertained! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Oh come on, having this console and not having Space Invaders is like the crackle without the pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Oh come on, having this console and not having Space Invaders is like the crackle without the pop. I don't like Space Invaders . . . hence its not on my list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Jeez, what's up with you Harmony owners? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Jeez, what's up with you Harmony owners? We play games that aren't commonly available at most used store/thrift shops/flea-markets *UPDATE* I just re-read my post and I came off a bit rude and that wasn't my intent. Space Invaders is a good game, just not one I enjoy. Different people like different games for different reason, depends on what type of game you like. I like games like Berzerk mostly but I like galaxian as well but some reason I don't get much enjoyment out of Space Invaders. I only really put game on my Harmony that I play alot or that I don't have/can't afford but still want to play. Edited September 13, 2011 by disjaukifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't like Space Invaders . . . hence its not on my list Have you tried the variations? The default game is quite easy, but it takes a lot of skill to clear more than a couple screens of game 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't like Space Invaders . . . hence its not on my list Have you tried the variations? The default game is quite easy, but it takes a lot of skill to clear more than a couple screens of game 16. Honestly no I haven't, just popped it in and tried it once, didn't seem to capture my attention . . . though I'm going to try the game again tonight once I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcfrick2112 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Wow, great thread.. and I missed it.. OK, I will add a recommendation for almost ANY Activision cart. right now! Yars' Revenge, Defender, Stargate.. and uhh... I may be the only person to like Demons to Diamonds (Atari) .. maybe not the best graphics, but a fun game, one- or two-player....Atari 2600 was one of only 3 game machines my dad ever owned.. And usually he would wipe the floor up with me! Don't forget some of the oddball 3rd party titles either... I like 'M.A.D.' , a missile command clone with only one gun that could be aimed... Mountain King, Solar Fox (?), lots more 3rd party titles I love... even if they are rather odd... Oh what about the Swordquest series? I have only Earthworld and Fireworld.. Ugh, a platformer of sorts called 'Eliminator' or something similar... SO many 2600 games... hard to keep 'em straight!! I have actually had a LOT of fun with 'Sky Jinks' , Activision ... That's another game that, on harder levels, you will WRECK your joystick... in my case.. I bent the stick into a pretzel.. lol *I now use Epyx 500XJ sticks for my 'hard-core' gaming 2600's... a lot more robust than stock 2600 controllers... Edited September 13, 2011 by marcfrick2112 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimciv Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 For anyone interested, here's a list of all the games mentioned so far more than 3 times: 14 --- Berzerk 11 --- Adventure 10 --- Space Invaders 9 --- Yars Revenge Missile Command 8 --- Ms Pacman Pitfall 7 --- River Raid Kaboom 6 --- Centipede Enduro 5 --- Dig Dug 4 --- Hero Haunted House Joust Moon Patrol Crystal Castles Solaris Cosmic Ark Phoenix Solar Fox Also, I made a trip to Joe's Video Games in Rock Hill, SC last weekend (see thread under Classic Gaming General) and I'm now shooting little yellow robots like its 1982.....I think there's a reason Berzerk made it to the top of this list. I ended up finding a 7800 (they were all out of 2600s that day) the 6 games on my list, and 7800 Asteroids and Centipede. Thanks again for all the recommendations! I've got a good list of games to keep an eye out for next time too.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well, I don't want to start a lot of debate - especially if it's a forum perenial. As someone has already said, this is supposed to be fun. I can only state my own opinion. Earlier I wrote that Harmony is one step removed from the real deal, and I stick by that. Emulation is two steps removed, but it also offers a whole lot more (I thought of another one in the mean time - being able to use whatever controller I want, configured the way I want). I've nothing against Harmony - and if people are happy with it, well that's enough to be going on with. Personally it just wouldn't give me the real deal. I can't quite appreciate that it's worth an $80 investment to be one step removed, when I could invest just a little bit more and have all the things I listed earlier. And given a laptop would easily interface with modern TV's - well, it's a no brainer for me. Why buy a Harmony for the VCS, and another for the 7800, and presumably another for the 5200? I can do all that today - if you don't mind being two steps removed, which suits me. I won't invest in a Harmony cartridge because I'm not won over by the argument. I've been buying up kit for a while - mainly Atari VCS stuff. I'll keep on doing that. But - seriously - this thread did prompt me to go through a little thinking, and I'm going to make the laptop thing a reality. It's just so easy to do, and so flexible. And if I'm not going to be running the real deal, it's close enough. Anyway, let's just let it go at that. ps: I can't say I've noticed joystick lag in Stella.... but that's a topic for elsewhere, no doubt! Modern TV's are a bigger step removed than the Harmony Cart in an Atari on a CRT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well, if I was truly going to relive my youth and experience the Atari as I did back then I'd need a console, some real carts, and a color TV that had a pink haze over the left side, and a green haze over the right. I don't include the TV as part of the experience, to be honest. Clearer is better, imo. I just bought a 7800 but went for a composite modded one - if it gives a better picture then I'm totally down with that. The relationship between the TV type and the Atari was one of convenience rather than being an intrinsic part of the design. For example, no-one would design a console that only used CRT's today - technology has moved on. So I think an argument about the TV type is pretty much irrelevant. By the same token, I pipe my TV sound through my surround system rather than use the TV speakers. It just makes things sound better - though it's not strictly speaking deplicating what I could have done in the late 70's early 80's. I don't see that as being at all removed from experiencing the real thing. Still, we all collect things for different reasons, I guess. There are people here who want to preserve the carts, but for me they're a wonderful functional object - and it's in the using them that the greatest pleasure comes. I recall being a kid and buying a new game, opening the box, and pulling out that cart for the first time - holding it, popping it into the slot. Magic! When done, pulling it out, pushing in another one. New game! That was my experiencing using the Atari, of owning one and enjoying it. As I understand a Harmony cart, what I'd get is a menu from which I can choose the game I want to play, when done I'd quit that game, go back to the menu, and choose another one. Now, that experience is more akin to Mame for me. I do that on Mame and Stella - I click, I play, I quit, I click another game etc. It's different from the plugging and unplugging physical objects. We're all different, and we're looking for slightly different things from our collection - variants, if you will. I confess I don't understand how someone can collect all the carts and lock them away in a closet. I mean, I appreciate the arguments of keeping them pristine and all, but they were made to be enjoyed, and they still work - so it's a shame to see them just sitting there. Perhaps by playing the games I'm lowering their perceived value - but that's another thing I don't concern myself with - how much something is supposedly worth. I collect for my own enjoyment. I like playing the games. If I own the cart then I can't see why I'd pay $80 to play the game on something else. For the games I don't have - well, I tend to buy it. If the prices are too high then there's Stella. Some games I simply accept I will have to go without in physical form. I'm okay with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Clearer is better in my opinion also. That's why I primarily play with my modified 2600 Expansion Module for the Colecovision with s-video . Overall picture quality is important too. That's why I primarily use a flat screen CRT. It is clear, bright, I can count every pixel, I can use a light gun, and it looks way better than my LCD. When I hook it up to my LCD it has an emulation look. When I hook it to my CRT it looks like it is suppose to minus the rf interference, dot craw, color bleed, and a round tube. If I'm in the mood to go old school I'll hook up one of my heavy sixers to my 1978 Sony Trinitron and use my actual carts minus my rare ones. I just do that on special occasions because I prefer to have the experience that I wished for back in the day instead of the one I had back in the day. I don't understand how the TV argument is irrelevant all because technology has moved on. It's moved on but not with much backwards compatible for classic games. It moved on and left them behind. The Harmony Cart is an example of cart technology moving along without leaving classic games behind. I don't understand how using the actual carts is important but the TV is not. What I mainly enjoy about collecting carts is the artwork and collecting label variations. I don't enjoy taking out my totes with hundreds of Atari games in them, finding a game to play, taking it out of it's cart size Ziploc bag, playing it for a few minutes and then realizing I'm not in the mood for it, putting it in the Ziploc bag again, putting it in it's alphabetical spot, and doing it all over again. I especially don't like doing that for rare games. I have a Time Warp cart that less than 10 are known to exist. There is no way I'll risk ruining that when I have it on my Harmony Cart. If I didn't have a Harmony Cart I would go through all that with my common carts but I rather just play the games in a non emulated fashion without going through all the digging out carts. I'm not a kid anymore. I don't have time for all of that. My carts are like a baseball card collection. My carts aren't just locked up in a closet. I enjoy them just as much but my Harmony cart is my wonderful functional object. You are correct that the menu is like Stella but it is kind of like the best of both worlds. You can use a menu without having to use an emulator. Also, not pulling out the cart is optional. If you wanted to you could pull it out, put it in a shoe box, take it out of the shoe box, put it in your Atari, and then pick another game. You can't do that with Stella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Oh crap - I wrote a full reply but the server errored out when I posted it, causing it to be lost. Here we goa gain... I don't feel burdened by having to pull out a cartridge and then put them away. There’s no hardship in it at all for me. I suppose if they were stored in some inaccessible way – like at the back of a closet – that might be a pain, but it’s simply not the case for me. On the cartridge itself, it’s not the labels that I’m interested in. I really don’t care too much about the label. The cart is important to me as an object. I love the physicality of it, the ceremony of putting a cart in, pulling one out. It’s holding it, the tactile feel. The physical cartridge is as much part of the time and place as the game console itself. I know a lot of people on the board collect label variants, but that’s not me. However, a physical cartridge is essential though. If reduce a game to bits and bytes for use in a different way, as in the case of a Harmony, then I’d prefer to think through all of my options. The options are – I’d need a Harmony for the 2600, 7800, 5200, and for the 8-bit computer line. So four Harmony’s. At $80 a go, that’s $320 in total. For much less I can buy a laptop and realize all the benefits I mentioned before. In the end, the math doesn’t add up. For me. Your mileage, clearly, varies. I’m in no way anti-Harmony! For those it suits, good! For me though, I’d rather use Stella at that point. No, let me take that back, I’d rather buy the cart for myself and use that. And of course there are exceptions, super-rare games worth lots of money. But again, I have Stella for those. On the TV front, CRT’s are brighter – but they’re also smaller and have inferior sound. Also, the days of CRT’s pushed us toward the PAL/NTSC debacle, something I won’t miss. Perhaps it’s strange, but while playing on a CRT might be preferred (I currently have my 2600 hooked to a CRT) I don’t feel it’s an essential component of my enjoyment. Maybe I’ve been infected by the modern world, but those crisp pixel based screens suit me down to the ground! My Atari and its carts aren’t ready for a museum yet. They’re still there, on display, and being used. As it should be, imo. I’m not going to protect it from use. I bought it to play the games, to enjoy a part of my childhood over again. That’s my motivation. I need physical for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowCoder Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Dead horse. Points made. Moving on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) I think Star Raiders would qualify as a game people should own. But do not - DO NOT - do as I did. I own two carts of it now, and still have no controllers. So I can't really play it. You've got to be pretty stupid to do it TWICE. Edited September 14, 2011 by Vaughan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Modern TV's are a bigger step removed than the Harmony Cart in an Atari on a CRT. Yep, they can make games like Kaboom unplayable - HDTV-Gaming-Lag: An Epidemic Exposed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I think Star Raiders would qualify as a game people should own. But do not - DO NOT - do as I did. I own two carts of it now, and still have no controllers. So I can't really play it. You've got to be pretty stupid to do it TWICE. Do you have the keyboard controllers for games like Brain Games and Codebreaker? The Video Touch Pad for Star Raiders was just a keyboard controller in disguise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I think Star Raiders would qualify as a game people should own. But do not - DO NOT - do as I did. I own two carts of it now, and still have no controllers. So I can't really play it. You've got to be pretty stupid to do it TWICE. Do you have the keyboard controllers for games like Brain Games and Codebreaker? The Video Touch Pad for Star Raiders was just a keyboard controller in disguise. The Kids' Controller is also compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Trying to avoid the obvious such as Adventure, Pac-Man or Combat.. I'd say Star Trek from SEGA would be nice. Solaris is also a plus. Both have awesome graphics considering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I'm not sure if it's been said...but I have to give a shout out to the homebrewers out there developing kickass games for the 2600. I think any of these titles are necessary to own for a new 2600 owner. I just picked up Dungeon and it blows me away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) Adventure Air Sea Battle/Target Fun Asteroids Astroblast Basketball Beamrider Berzerk BMX Air Master Bump 'n Jump Circus Atari Combat/Tank Plus California Games Crystal Castles Demon Attack Centipede Dig Dug Double Dunk Dragonfire Enduro Fathom Frogger Frostbite Galaxian Haunted House HERO Jr. Pac-Man Jungle Hunt Kaboom Keystone Kapers Laser Gates Lock 'n Chase Megamania Midnight Magic Millipede Missile Command Moon Patrol Moonsweeper Ms. Pac-Man Omega Race (needs booster grip or CV controller) Phoenix Pitfall Pitfall II Pressure Cooker Q*Bert Raiders of the Lost Ark Reactor River Raid Robot Tank Solar Fox Solaris Space Invaders Spider Fighter Spy Hunter Stampede Stargate/Defender II Summer Games Super Breakout Supercharger and Communist Mutants from Space, Dragonstomper, Escape from the Mindmaster, Fireball, and Phaser Patrol Tapper Turmoil Vanguard Winter Games Edited September 15, 2011 by BrianC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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