A_Locomotive Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 What are the extra switches? I Ass-U-Me BW/Color, diff A, Diff B Correct. The console also has composite video out and I modified the cart guide so it can accept most carts without issues. Thats pretty damn cool. How hard are the mods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer4x4 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Correct. The console also has composite video out and I modified the cart guide so it can accept most carts without issues. Does the composite video mod affect how 2600 games look different on a 7800? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 A 7800 with a Cuttle Cart 2 is all you need. Of course an S-Video mod helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Cuttle cart?, yeah breakout the 56k modem while your at it... no offense to the cuttle cart creators, but the harmony cart beats the cuttle like VHS beat Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 er... while the Cuttle Cart 2 is a rare relic, it does at least exist. Where's your Harmony 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 not to start a flam war or anything, but the Harmony doesn't need a 2nd edition, it's perfect the way it is... (so far...) Back on topic of 7800 vs 2600 to play VCS games.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nah, you can't get away with that claim; it doesn't play 7800 titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 it wasn't designed to play 7800 titles,.. that's like claiming the Pizza Napoletana is flawed cause it doesn't have meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The only reason I said CC2 and not CC2 or Harmony was because the CC2 plays 7800 games and I don't believe there is a 7800 Harmony cart at the moment which makes the CC2 the ultimate solution for a 2600/7800 setup. Obviously this will change eventually. If you're only interested in 2600 games then either works just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 it wasn't designed to play 7800 titles,.. that's like claiming the Pizza Napoletana is flawed cause it doesn't have meat. Flawed, no. Inferior, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The speed, sound, and color of Atari 2600 games can be a little off on the Atari 7800, so I like to play on a real Atari 2600. Is your 7800 broken? I noticed the same differences on two different Atari 7800s. Somebody posted why the Atari 7800 is so different within the past few years. Really? I have no issues on mine. The only difference is that the colors on the 2600 tend to be more vivid. The speed and sound should be identical unless your machine is out of calibration. Maybe you are thinking of PAL/NTSC differences? Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 it wasn't designed to play 7800 titles,.. that's like claiming the Pizza Napoletana is flawed cause it doesn't have meat. Flawed, no. Inferior, yes. Point to Rex Dart (however the guy WAS looking for a system to play 2600 games on, but I'm not about to say that playing 7800 games is a bad idea!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) The speed, sound, and color of Atari 2600 games can be a little off on the Atari 7800, so I like to play on a real Atari 2600. Is your 7800 broken? I noticed the same differences on two different Atari 7800s. Somebody posted why the Atari 7800 is so different within the past few years. Really? I have no issues on mine. The only difference is that the colors on the 2600 tend to be more vivid. The speed and sound should be identical unless your machine is out of calibration. Maybe you are thinking of PAL/NTSC differences? No, it has nothing to do with NTSC/PAL. I think this is the post I was talking about, but it doesn't mention speed or sound: http://www.atariage....53#entry2187853 The video circuit on the 7800 mixes the 2600 signal with the 7800 signal. The result is a compromise in signal strength and color in both modes. If the 2600 signal is adjusted (by changing some component values), there will be unacceptable wavy lines when playing 7800 games. It is unfortunately just the way it is unless you modify the video circuit. I was not happy with this compromise so I changed the circuit. See below for one of my prior posts... "I see no reason to not believe that Best developed this modification from something that was done years ago. There are several different ways to build a simple video amplification circuit for the 7800; I developed mine prior to reading about the "easier video mod". One of my goals was to have crystal clear video in both 2600 and 7800 modes so the solution I came up with was to get rid of the entire rf circuit, separate the chroma signals (stock they are blended and the result is a compromise in color and image quality) and use the old channel select switch to choose between 2600 and 7800 modes. I was able to tailor the modification to have bright, non washed out colors in both 2600 and 7800 modes with individual brightness pots for each (the stock luma ladder values have been optimized for the one stage amplification circuit). Anyway, the point is there are many ways to get composite video out of the 7800, and I think it is very possible that some engineer modified the console Best found. " I didn't draw out a schematic ( ) , or I would post it. Good luck. Chris I've had an Atari 2600 and and Atari 7800 set up and when you play the same game using each one, a discerning person can notice a difference in color, speed, and sound. Edited October 20, 2011 by Random Terrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The speed, sound, and color of Atari 2600 games can be a little off on the Atari 7800, so I like to play on a real Atari 2600. Is your 7800 broken? I noticed the same differences on two different Atari 7800s. Somebody posted why the Atari 7800 is so different within the past few years. Really? I have no issues on mine. The only difference is that the colors on the 2600 tend to be more vivid. The speed and sound should be identical unless your machine is out of calibration. Maybe you are thinking of PAL/NTSC differences? No, it has nothing to do with NTSC/PAL. I think this is the post I was talking about, but it doesn't mention speed or sound: http://www.atariage....53#entry2187853 The video circuit on the 7800 mixes the 2600 signal with the 7800 signal. The result is a compromise in signal strength and color in both modes. If the 2600 signal is adjusted (by changing some component values), there will be unacceptable wavy lines when playing 7800 games. It is unfortunately just the way it is unless you modify the video circuit. I was not happy with this compromise so I changed the circuit. See below for one of my prior posts... "I see no reason to not believe that Best developed this modification from something that was done years ago. There are several different ways to build a simple video amplification circuit for the 7800; I developed mine prior to reading about the "easier video mod". One of my goals was to have crystal clear video in both 2600 and 7800 modes so the solution I came up with was to get rid of the entire rf circuit, separate the chroma signals (stock they are blended and the result is a compromise in color and image quality) and use the old channel select switch to choose between 2600 and 7800 modes. I was able to tailor the modification to have bright, non washed out colors in both 2600 and 7800 modes with individual brightness pots for each (the stock luma ladder values have been optimized for the one stage amplification circuit). Anyway, the point is there are many ways to get composite video out of the 7800, and I think it is very possible that some engineer modified the console Best found. :)" I didn't draw out a schematic ( ) , or I would post it. Good luck. Chris I've had an Atari 2600 and and Atari 7800 set up and when you play the same game using each one, a discerning person can notice a difference in color, speed, and sound. OK, that's the same thing I was talking about with the colors being more vivid on the 2600. This has nothing to do with either speed or sound. I do not ever remember noticing any difference between the 2600 and 7800 regarding speed and sound. They both use the same TIA chip so I don't see how it could be different. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snstay Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thats the first thing i noticed about the 7800 was the dull color . And it was right on the harmony main menu. And i went back and forth between the 7800 and 2600. And the 2600 IS brighter and clearer! Now i am going to do a s-video mod . Im curious to see the diffrence!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Thats pretty damn cool. How hard are the mods? They are pretty simple. The switches are just wired to the board, without any extra component. The color/b&w switch is connected in parallel with the 7800 pause button, as they are electrically the same, the only difference being that one is a momentary switch while the other is a toggle switch. Just leave it in the "Color" position when you play a 7800 game and you can use the pause button as normal. To mod the cart guide you have to cut out the plastic at the corners. The cart guide can be easily removed from the board (2 screws hold it), so that's a simple task too. I opted for the "easier 7800 composite mod", because it requires just a few components (as you can see I haven't even used a board to build it). I only use CRT TV for my retro gaming, as I greatly prefer how those old consoles look on a tube screen. If you want to use an LCD TV, then I suggest trying some more advanced mod with s-video output. Does the composite video mod affect how 2600 games look different on a 7800? The mod increases the image quality because it get rid of RF interferences ("snow" effect) and there isn't the degradation involved in combining the audio with the video, modulating and demodulating the signal and separete the audio and video again. Anyway, it still uses the original circuit to combine 7800 and 2600 video, and that's the source for the dull colors. You need a more extensive mod to fix that, as you can read in the post by Tubular Gearhead quoted above. Edited October 21, 2011 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer4x4 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The mod increases the image quality because it get rid of RF interferences ("snow" effect) and there isn't the degradation involved in combining the audio with the video, modulating and demodulating the signal and separete the audio and video again. Anyway, it still uses the original circuit to combine 7800 and 2600 video, and that's the source for the dull colors. You need a more extensive mod to fix that, as you can read in the post by Tubular Gearhead quoted above. Thanks. Did you disable/remove the rear switches? If not I assume they must be in whichever position is "Off" for the front switches to work. That is kinda what I am doing with the project to control all of the switches with a pic chip controlled by a keyboard controller. Maybe a 7800 is a better platform, but I never opened it to see how much dead space there is. As for the original reason for the thread. I say get ANYTHING, and then based on what you like/don't like, get something else in addition, then another, then a couple more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubular Gearhead Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I just read this thread- so I am reposting this additional information if it helps or inspires anyone. http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/183181-dull-color-to-me/page__fromsearch__1 see post #8 Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Did you disable/remove the rear switches? I removed the old difficulty switches. The 7800 has them on the front, but IMO they are too recessed and too close to the controller ports to be practical. If not I assume they must be in whichever position is "Off" for the front switches to work. Yes, they should be left in the "A" position in that case. Edited October 21, 2011 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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