Sega SG 1000/ US SMS Compatability

[VicViper]

Heres the question- I know the Japanese master system (MK lll) will play the earlier SG-1000 games. however, in Japan, the carts for both of these systems more closely resemble a coleco cart than a Master system. what I would like to know is if there has ever been some manner of pin converter made that would allow you to play SG-1000 games on an american master system, or is the only way to play these obscure games is snagging a japanese system?

[Tempest]

Heres the question- I know the Japanese master system (MK lll) will play the earlier SG-1000 games. however, in Japan, the carts for both of these systems more closely resemble a coleco cart than a Master system. what I would like to know is if there has ever been some manner of pin converter made that would allow you to play SG-1000 games on an american master system, or is the only way to play these obscure games is snagging a japanese system?

My understanding is that the US SMS can't play these, and it's not just the cart size. However you can play them with an SMS Everdrive, so I might be wrong on that.

[chrisbid]

ive been seeing more mark iii and sg 1000 version 2 systems on ebay for more reasonable prices. i picked up a loose mark iii a couple of months ago for 50 bucks (30 bucks shipping). thats really the way to go, unless you go out and find a dina 2-in-1.

[VicViper]

ive been seeing more mark iii and sg 1000 version 2 systems on ebay for more reasonable prices. i picked up a loose mark iii a couple of months ago for 50 bucks (30 bucks shipping). thats really the way to go, unless you go out and find a dina 2-in-1.

I don't have a Coleco either, so a Dina 2-in-1 isn't a terrible idea. how much do those run, assuming you can even find one?

Edited October 24, 2011 by VicViper

[Tempest]

I don't have a Coleco either, so a Dina 2-in-1 isn't a terrible idea. how much do those run, assuming you can even find one?

They've gone up a lot since Telegames lost all it's stock in a tornado years ago. Last time I looked (5 or so years ago) they were in the $100+ range.

[+thegoldenband]

To quote SMSPower:

 

"All Game Gear and export Master System, and some Japanese Master System, games include a header which provides information about the ROM and a means to detect its validity. The BIOS in non-Japanese Master Systems requires a valid header..."

 

No SG-1000 games include this header, so none of the original carts will boot on a US SMS. However, they will work via flashcart, because the flashcart's own OS bypasses (or otherwise fulfills) the BIOS check. I'm looking forward to doing that when I get a Master Everdrive someday.

 

The other problem, though, is that the colors on SG-1000 games running on Mark III/SMS hardware are incorrect (too dark), thanks to what I assume is a design error, and there's no way to fix it -- it's hardwired into the TMS9918 video mode on the SMS. Some games look passable, others are way too dark and even become difficult to play because of it. I think I remember reading that a couple SG-1000 games were redesigned with different palettes to accommodate this, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

The Dina 2-in-1 is apparently the only domestic (US) option for playing SG-1000 games with the right colors. Otherwise, the options are buying a SG-1000 or SC-3000 online...or getting your friendly neighborhood programmer to port the game to ColecoVision. A lot of the better SG-1000 games have come out or are going to come out on the ColecoVision, and since the two systems are almost identical under the hood, the colors are correct AFAIK.

 

BTW, a bunch of Korean SMS games use TMS9918 mode. These were designed for the Samsung Gam*Boy as I recall (a clone of the Mark III), but when I run them under emulation, it sure looks like they were meant for the original, non-darkened palette (I have one emulator that runs them with SG-1000 colors, one with SMS colors). I assume they'll look dark on the actual hardware, but since most of these are MSX conversions, maybe the Korean developers just didn't care or weren't aware of the issues.

[VicViper]

To quote SMSPower:

 

"All Game Gear and export Master System, and some Japanese Master System, games include a header which provides information about the ROM and a means to detect its validity. The BIOS in non-Japanese Master Systems requires a valid header..."

 

No SG-1000 games include this header, so none of the original carts will boot on a US SMS. However, they will work via flashcart, because the flashcart's own OS bypasses (or otherwise fulfills) the BIOS check. I'm looking forward to doing that when I get a Master Everdrive someday.

 

The other problem, though, is that the colors on SG-1000 games running on Mark III/SMS hardware are incorrect (too dark), thanks to what I assume is a design error, and there's no way to fix it -- it's hardwired into the TMS9918 video mode on the SMS. Some games look passable, others are way too dark and even become difficult to play because of it. I think I remember reading that a couple SG-1000 games were redesigned with different palettes to accommodate this, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

The Dina 2-in-1 is apparently the only domestic (US) option for playing SG-1000 games with the right colors. Otherwise, the options are buying a SG-1000 or SC-3000 online...or getting your friendly neighborhood programmer to port the game to ColecoVision. A lot of the better SG-1000 games have come out or are going to come out on the ColecoVision, and since the two systems are almost identical under the hood, the colors are correct AFAIK.

 

BTW, a bunch of Korean SMS games use TMS9918 mode. These were designed for the Samsung Gam*Boy as I recall (a clone of the Mark III), but when I run them under emulation, it sure looks like they were meant for the original, non-darkened palette (I have one emulator that runs them with SG-1000 colors, one with SMS colors). I assume they'll look dark on the actual hardware, but since most of these are MSX conversions, maybe the Korean developers just didn't care or weren't aware of the issues.

WOW. I think you nailed it. +2 for you sir. I'm not looking to get another system right now, as my dozen or so other systems are always "hungry" as it is. Although if I happen to find a cheap Dina, I certainly wouldn't hesitate

[Rick Dangerous]

Found this thread VERY interesting as I just got a Game Gear Everdrive...

 

It plays Game Gear, Master System, and SG 1000 games flawlessly, which is pretty awesome.

 

I suppose not quite flawlessly on the SG 1000 side because they have the darker color palette..In the five years since this thread was last posted on, has anyone seen a header patch to correct the color palette for those trying to play SG 1000 roms on US hardware, be it the SMS or Game Gear? I played Hang On II yesterday, and it's still very playable it just looks like you are always racing at night...haha.

 

Thanks!

[bsittler]

For the specific case of SG-1000 on Game Gear a new adapter with palette set-up and BIOS-appeasement would be ideal. Until that's a real thing, there are a few patches I threw together over here which would require flashing a new copy and (in some cases for BIOS-ful Game Gear models) defanging/removing the Game Gear BIOS: http://www.smspower.org/forums/16912-SG1000SC3000MarkIIIJPSMSRArrExportSMSRArrGameGearConverter#102434— so far it only covers Zaxxon, Penguin Land, Bomb Jack, Q*Bert, Chack'n Pop, Wonder Boy & Championship LodeRunner, though the same ideas should work with other games provided a z80 machine code cheat sheet and minor changes

Edited June 15, 2018 by bsittler