Launch titles for Atari

[cimerians]

Leonard just cleared the air for me on Apollo so I'll assume Skeet Shoot, Space Chase and Space Cavern.

[Supergun]

Yes, we all know about the original nine gatefold box launch titles for the 2600, however I have a theory that perhaps they originally only had five ready and planned but since the vcs was delayed an entire year prior to launch, they ended up with more time to complete more games and have them ready in time for the official launch.

 

I site the cartridges themselves as the proof for this.

To the left are the original numbered color text label border cartridges, to the right are the silver numbered ones.

Why else would only these 5 cartridges have these unique borders?

 

Granted, rumors have always floated around that some of the other four may exist like these, but I personally have never found one, let alone ever even seen a picture of one.

[Master Phruby]

Maybe the guy that was making the labels was fired and they brought someone else in to shake things up?

[Rom Hunter]

Interesting theory.

 

Edited June 6, 2012 by Rom Hunter

[Rom Hunter]

Then again: Space Mission already had a silver lining before it became Star Ship:

http://www.atarimania.com/game-space-mission_s15384.html

 

[Retro Rogue]

Yes, we all know about the original nine gatefold box launch titles for the 2600, however I have a theory that perhaps they originally only had five ready and planned but since the vcs was delayed an entire year prior to launch, they ended up with more time to complete more games and have them ready in time for the official launch.

 

I site the cartridges themselves as the proof for this.

To the left are the original numbered color text label border cartridges, to the right are the silver numbered ones.

Why else would only these 5 cartridges have these unique borders?

 

Granted, rumors have always floated around that some of the other four may exist like these, but I personally have never found one, let alone ever even seen a picture of one.

 

Problem is it's not accurate. We now know there were originally more than 9 planned for the launch and there were several name changes to games by the time of the launch. Likewise the launch was not delayed for a year, it simply took that long for development. Miner and Decuir first started working on the gate accurate wire wrap of the STELLA chip in March of '76 (that's when Miner was first hired on at Atari), then after that had to transfer it to VLSI. The only thing done through that time was the Tank proof of concept (which is what's on display at the Computer History Museum as the "Atari 2600 prototype"). Where the confusion about "delay" came from was that they waited to time it's first public showing until days after the Magnavox agreement had expired in early June of '77, at the Summer CES in Chicago. As far as of told "needing cash to finish thing" in regards to there being a delay, Nolan started shopping around for investments and possibly Atari in Spring of '75, long before the proof of concept of the 2600 was even on the drawing board. We have the actual prospectus.

[Rom Hunter]

Thanks for clearing this up, Rogue.

 

[Supergun]

Then again: Space Mission already had a silver lining before it became Star Ship:

http://www.atarimani...ion_s15384.html

 

 

 

While I agree that the space mission tosses a monkey wrench into the equation, and while a good explanation (or should I say clarification) of the historic timeline has now also been thrown in, I still must make the most simplest of observations based on the evidence I have in front of me.

 

The colored borders CLEARLY predate the silver borders. PERIOD. This is NOT up for dispute or discussion. This is tangible and entered into evidence for this discussion. So granted, debate the launch theory all you want, but nothing changes the fact that those 5 cartridges were manufactured before the other 9. So by definition, we need to locate the other 4 with the exact same style colored borders, and then we can confirm that they were made in 1977 (and then shortly thereafter Atari changed over to the silver ones) OR, we must assume that they were made well before, but sat in a warehouse and then when the launch happened, they were sent off to distributors along with the silver ones (all mixed in together in no particular order) and randomly ended up in different retail outlets. (pure luck / coincidence where they went)

 

This HAS happened several times btw in Atari history. Examples? Sure, here are two off the top of my head:

 

1) The 1984 glossy silver label Atari 5200 Gremlins and Choplifter cartridges. As determined in a previous thread here, they were manufactured in 1984, but sat in a warehouse for two years. Later, in 1986, the dull grey label versions were manufactured and released, and the 2 year old stock of the glossy silvers went out with them.

 

2) The 1984 Atari 7800 systems and 1984 label cartridges, such as Joust, Food Fight, Ms. Pac-Man, etc. Again, manufactured and packed and ready to ship in 1984. They sat for two years, and then in 1986, Atari mixes them in (accidentally or on purpose cause they were lazy or cheap) and some of them hit retailers at the same time as their modified and/or repackaged 1986 counterparts.

 

(believe me I know, because I saw and purchased these 1984 versions at Lionel Playworld during Christmas of 1986)

 

Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to be clear that perhaps the launch theory may indeed not be accurate, and may not be what actually happened, it is nonetheless obvious that the original 9 silver labeled and numbered cartridges were NOT the absolute very first cartridges manufactured for the 2600.

[Syntaxerror999]

May I throw in a question... why are the origional 9 not numbered 1-9? Simple answer is the numbers are based off their model number...ok, so then why didnt the model numbers go 2601-2609? Did Atari say, ok we got x number of games programed...lets release (picked random game numbers) this year and the rest next year to create hype and make customers anticipate the missing numbers so they wont think this is going to be a dead end purchase? If thats the case its a pretty brilliant marketing strategy.

 

Pitty they didnt stick with the number system. Those are my favorite label variations... not for their rarity, but for what it says about how different the way games were marketed then. Its clearly a biproduct of Pong consoles and their different built in game modes (and may have been influenced by the Odyssey)

Edited June 7, 2012 by Syntaxerror999

[Retro Rogue]

So by definition, we need to locate the other 4 with the exact same style colored borders, and then we can confirm that they were made in 1977 (and then shortly thereafter Atari changed over to the silver ones) OR, we must assume that they were made well before, but sat in a warehouse and then when the launch happened, they were sent off to distributors along with the silver ones (all mixed in together in no particular order) and randomly ended up in different retail outlets. (pure luck / coincidence where they went)

 

There were no carts manufactured pre-'77, there is no "well before". Manufacturing didn't start until well in to '77, specifically to come in after the one year agreement they had signed. Once again, there was no "sitting in a warehouse", there was no pre-manufacture and then delay. To borrow your term, "This is NOT up for dispute or discussion." There were however changes done throughout '77, including the last minute removal of the internal speakers such that the molds could not be changed. Other changes like cartridge labels are trivial and most likely from the fact that Atari also had other products in line (the home Tank console) in case the 2600 wasn't well recieved at the '77 CES. So it's not unfathomable that the five were set up for CES and then the full 9 went in to manufacturing after early June once it was confirmed they were moving forward. This also reflects the name changes on some of the games. All 9 games would have been coded well before that though, as development alone took about 3-4 months for each game at that time period. Once again, all this info is coming directly from the source. We put an extensive amount of time in to interviewing the parties involved and tracking down documents, engineering logs, design logs, etc.

 

This HAS happened several times btw in Atari history. Examples? Sure, here are two off the top of my head:

 

Both of which are explained away with the fact it had to do with the collapse of Atari Inc. and the formation of Atari Corporation. Completely unrelated context to the above. In 1984, Atari Inc. was imploding and the Consumer Division IP and assets were sold to Jack Tramiel. He folded that in to his TTL company, which he then renamed Atari Corporation. The deal included warehouses full of unsold stock, and stock that had been preparing to go out.

 

 

1) The 1984 glossy silver label Atari 5200 Gremlins and Choplifter cartridges. As determined in a previous thread here, they were manufactured in 1984, but sat in a warehouse for two years. Later, in 1986, the dull grey label versions were manufactured and released, and the 2 year old stock of the glossy silvers went out with them.

 

Which was when Tramiel re-released the 5200 to get rid of inherited backstock, which included a mishmash of 4 and 2 port hardware as well, and additional printings of boxes which accounts for the change in look.

 

2) The 1984 Atari 7800 systems and 1984 label cartridges, such as Joust, Food Fight, Ms. Pac-Man, etc. Again, manufactured and packed and ready to ship in 1984. They sat for two years, and then in 1986, Atari mixes them in (accidentally or on purpose cause they were lazy or cheap) and some of them hit retailers at the same time as their modified and/or repackaged 1986 counterparts.

 

(believe me I know, because I saw and purchased these 1984 versions at Lionel Playworld during Christmas of 1986)

 

Again, inaccurate in history. Two different Ataris. They were ready to go out in '84 and then the collapse happened. GCC's (the designer of the 7800 and the launch games) contract was with Warner, not Atari, and the contract was kept with them until GCC's balance was paid off. Tramiel negotiated on and off until Spring of '85, then paid off the development to GCC, and then negotiated for payment of the launch titles, which was concluded by August of '85. He then began looking for someone to help launch the consumer video games division again, found it in Mike Katz who came on board in late September/early October (the official announcements went out in the beginning of November) who set about getting operations going for the re-release of the 7800 and the immediate release of the 2600 Jr. The 7800 was re-launched in January of '86, and all the original '84 stock was sent out through distribution channels to retailers immediately, while they moved on to start up manufacturing of new stock. There were even articles at the time of retailers selling out the limited stock they had in that Spring of '86. Now it's certainly possible some retailers or distributors held on to some of the initial launch stock for the national launch because the newer manufactured stock was slow in coming. But there was no mixing on Atari Corp.'s end. And there certainly was no repackaging, the 1986 ones are labeled as such because that's when they were manufactured.

 

So once again, two items being stuck in warehouses because of a move from one company to another in no way serves as an example to the claim that 2600 cartridges suppsedly sat for a long time in warehouses in 1977. They did not.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Thanks for clearing this up, Rogue.

 

 

He will always be 'wgungfu' to me, LMAO! That odd name will just always stick in my head, despite the name changes!

 

I wonder if there were any 'lost' games in the catalog at this point in time.......or perhaps these titles got shifted into what would be later games. Have any protos surfaced from titles that would have been around this very early timeframe at all, or just the original 9 release titles? Say, a title that was near completion that they were considering as a launch title, but then decided to continue coding or refining past the stage....so it is a 'coulda woulda shoulda' type launch title, but ended up being something later? A game that was "good enough" for release and was completed or very near completion that they just put in that extra (arguably unneeded)tweak or two that took longer?

[Supergun]

Well, you raise what is, and always has been to me, the most significant observation of them all; the product code numbers assigned to video games. It was these product code numbers that I noticed first before anything else the very first time I held an Atari 2600 cartridge in my hands back in the late 70's. There is an early document that was once shown here in another thread (maybe someone here remembers where and they can dig it up) that shows the first dozen or so games listed, (maybe more) along with their product numbers and the names of the programmer's assigned to work on each one. But the bottom line is, and the easy answer is, NO! They did not make 9 games and then number them 1 through 9. It almost never works out that way. They were working on many games, and those 9 were maybe just ready first, or were considered the strongest of the games that had been made so far and were available to them in time for launch.

 

And then, it gets even juicier...because when you begin to document game lists, product numbers, release dates, etc. you start to notice things. You start to find gaps, name changes, re-assigned numbers, etc. and most importantly, discontinued games. Or what have come to be known and affectionately referred to as "protos". Yes, protos. The holy grails of collecting.

 

As an example:

Does anyone here really think that Atari made and released the updated (sequel) Super Breakout (CX2608) BEFORE regular Breakout (assigned CX2622) ? Um, no, this is not George Lucas and the second trilogy prequels. I mean WTF? No my friend, not possible! We all know that Super Breakout was a much later release, one of the last black cart label releases before they went silver for that matter. So bottom line is that COMMON SENSE tells us that CX2608 may have originally been assigned to "Stunt Cycle" or "Wizard" or some other early 2k cart that has yet to be discovered and/or was lost long ago never to be found again. The point is, whatever CX2608 was, it was canceled and it's product number was re-assigned to whatever the heck was ready to go to market at the time, which happened to be Super Breakout.

[Supergun]

There were no carts manufactured pre-'77, there is no "well before". Manufacturing didn't start until well in to '77, specifically to come in after the one year agreement they had signed. Once again, there was no "sitting in a warehouse", there was no pre-manufacture and then delay. To borrow your term, "This is NOT up for dispute or discussion." There were however changes done throughout '77, including the last minute removal of the internal speakers such that the molds could not be changed. Other changes like cartridge labels are trivial...........................................

So once again, two items being stuck in warehouses because of a move from one company to another in no way serves as an example to the claim that 2600 cartridges suppsedly sat for a long time in warehouses in 1977. They did not.

 

Understood.

I have no doubt that you know far more about the history of Atari, including the 1977 launch then I do. And thanks for sharing the information, it is very interesting indeed. But so then in regards to the two theories that I presented earlier with regards to the 5 carts, since the "sitting in a warehouse" theory is unlikely, it must be the other then. Either way, we have what in essence was the very first label change (or label variation as we call them here) for Atari cartridges done sometime in 1977. Again, cannot be disputed. The only question is whether or not the other 4 also exist with that variation.

[Retro Rogue]

Understood.

I have no doubt that you know far more about the history of Atari, including the 1977 launch then I do. And thanks for sharing the information, it is very interesting indeed. But so then in regards to the two theories that I presented earlier with regards to the 5 carts, since the "sitting in a warehouse" theory is unlikely, it must be the other then. Either way, we have what in essence was the very first label change (or label variation as we call them here) for Atari cartridges done sometime in 1977. Again, cannot be disputed. The only question is whether or not the other 4 also exist with that variation.

 

I sent off a quick message to Al Alcorn asking him specificially about this, he was in charge of the entire project. He may or may not answer, because he could view this sort of question in the same lite as some of the Star Trek cast views Trekkies.

 

Also, you need to keep in mind that marketing was calling a lot of the shots of this cosmetic stuff as well. They're actually the ones that came up with the cx-2600 designation and some of the other numberings, not the engineers. So you're looking for a method to the organizational skills of someone in marketing, which as anyone who has delt with people in marketing before can tell you, it's quite frustrating.

 

 

As an example:

Does anyone here really think that Atari made and released the updated (sequel) Super Breakout (CX2608) BEFORE regular Breakout (assigned CX2622) ? Um, no, this is not George Lucas and the second trilogy prequels. I mean WTF? No my friend, not possible! We all know that Super Breakout was a much later release, one of the last black cart label releases before they went silver for that matter. So bottom line is that COMMON SENSE tells us that CX2608 may have originally been assigned to "Stunt Cycle" or "Wizard" or some other early 2k cart that has yet to be discovered and/or was lost long ago never to be found again. The point is, whatever CX2608 was, it was canceled and it's product number was re-assigned to whatever the heck was ready to go to market at the time, which happened to be Super Breakout.

 

The problem is, according to the the US Copright database, that'd be a wrong assumption as far as the development was concerned. Super Breakout for the 2600 was developed before Breakout for the 2600. Per the US Copyright database, the date of publication (when the game and it's materials were first seen outside of Atari) for Breakout was 1978-11-09. The date of publication for Super Breakout is 1978-06-15. It's quite possible they wanted Super Breakout done first because it was a coin title launching that September and they wanted it out in time to coincide with it.

[rolenta]

The problem is, according to the the US Copright database, that'd be a wrong assumption as far as the development was concerned. Super Breakout for the 2600 was developed before Breakout for the 2600. Per the US Copyright database, the date of publication (when the game and it's materials were first seen outside of Atari) for Breakout was 1978-11-09. The date of publication for Super Breakout is 1978-06-15. It's quite possible they wanted Super Breakout done first because it was a coin title launching that September and they wanted it out in time to coincide with it.

 

I don't know if this pertains to anything, but Super Breakout for the 2600 was a Sears Telegames 'exclusive' for a while before it was finally Atari branded.

Edited June 7, 2012 by rolenta

[Retro Rogue]

But so then in regards to the two theories that I presented earlier with regards to the 5 carts, since the "sitting in a warehouse" theory is unlikely, it must be the other then.

 

Just to update on this, we just got a donation of a picture of the very first 2600 as it was coming off the assembly line. I.E. full box and everything. It was dated July '77, which is when manufacturing started.

 

 

The problem is, according to the the US Copright database, that'd be a wrong assumption as far as the development was concerned. Super Breakout for the 2600 was developed before Breakout for the 2600. Per the US Copyright database, the date of publication (when the game and it's materials were first seen outside of Atari) for Breakout was 1978-11-09. The date of publication for Super Breakout is 1978-06-15. It's quite possible they wanted Super Breakout done first because it was a coin title launching that September and they wanted it out in time to coincide with it.

 

I don't know if this pertains to anything, but Super Breakout for the 2600 was a Sears Telegames 'exclusive' for a while before it was finally Atari branded.

 

Thanks Len, that would make perfect sense then as to why it was programmed before Breakout but not released as an Atari branded label until after.

[Supergun]

I don't know if this pertains to anything, but Super Breakout for the 2600 was a Sears Telegames 'exclusive' for a while before it was finally Atari branded.

 

I don't believe that this was ever officially confirmed. While I was already aware of Super Breakout's association with Sears, the way it had been told for years now was that it was INTENDED to be an exclusive, but that it was not. I have never heard any source give any official confirmation that it WAS an exclusive, even if only for a short while, and then lost exclusivity.

 

In addition, I only used the Super breakout example as it was the most blatantly obvious one, but make no mistake about it, their are dozens of other examples, on every system for that matter, of games having been assigned, revoked, and reassigned product code numbers whereby affecting the order in which they were released, despite the number originally assigned and the intended release for it.

[Supergun]

There is no Atari text label version of super breakout, only the picture label version because that was the standard label being used by Atari when Super Breakout came to be released. We know the 3 Sears exclusives were Steeplechase (text only because there were no pic labels back then), Stellar Track (text & picture because it was re-released with the picture label), and Submarine Commander (pic only because the text labels had been discontinued). So I ask, just where the hell would Super Breakout fit in? The SEARS version of Super Breakout is text only! There is no pic label for the cart, so by definition it could not have been the "fourth" Sears exclusive. The only possibility is that perhaps, maybe, it could have been the FIRST, and the other 3 would then be called the second, third, and fourth.

 

EDIT: And btw, Sears own catalog from the time does not call it an exclusive either. But Sears does go out of their way to point out the exclusives they do have, in their own category in the catalog for that matter. And in this catalog, Submarine Commander does not exist yet.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Supergun

[cimerians]

Wow this is really good stuff. Rogue, when is the book going to be published, your like an encyclopedia?

Love to see that first Atari unit coming off the assembly.....

 

I thought Super Breakout was exclusive to Sears as well for a time. Was it? And did it come out later under Atari or is it still unknown?

[Retro Rogue]

Wow this is really good stuff. Rogue, when is the book going to be published, your like an encyclopedia?

Love to see that first Atari unit coming off the assembly.....

 

http://www.facebook.com/syzygycompany

[rolenta]

I don't believe that this was ever officially confirmed. While I was already aware of Super Breakout's association with Sears, the way it had been told for years now was that it was INTENDED to be an exclusive, but that it was not. I have never heard any source give any official confirmation that it WAS an exclusive, even if only for a short while, and then lost exclusivity.

 

Super Breakout was Sears branded and in Sears stores for a few months before it was Atari-branded and availalble everywhere. I first saw it in Sears but didn't buy it because I wanted the Atari one. However, when time passed and the Atari one never came out, I finally bought the Sears one. Maybe exclusive is not the right word but Sears sure did have a head start with it,

[Syntaxerror999]

Yes, we all know about the original nine gatefold box launch titles for the 2600, however I have a theory that perhaps they originally only had five ready and planned but since the vcs was delayed an entire year prior to launch, they ended up with more time to complete more games and have them ready in time for the official launch.

 

I site the cartridges themselves as the proof for this.

To the left are the original numbered color text label border cartridges, to the right are the silver numbered ones.

Why else would only these 5 cartridges have these unique borders?

 

Granted, rumors have always floated around that some of the other four may exist like these, but I personally have never found one, let alone ever even seen a picture of one.

The copy of combat with the red boarder... whats its rareity? Its not on the AA database. I got a copy with an atari i got off ebay that turned out to be a H6er. Also have the gold border Indy 500

Edited June 18, 2012 by Syntaxerror999