Do you think eBay has totally killed thrifting for classic computing gear?

[dudeslife]

I know we can still find video game systems and carts but it seems like classic computer hardware from atari, commodore, apple, etc. have totally disappeared. Is the era over? I know the bright side is we can find pretty much anything now if price doesn't matter. but I really miss the thrill of thrift finds.

Edited November 5, 2011 by dudeslife

[SnapCraft]

Not really eBay: Goodwill.com and damn "ewaste" recycle mentality.

[CGQuarterly]

Yeah I think it's more that stores see that stuff as junk and they send it to e-waste.

 

Chris

[HuckleCat]

Goodwill.com, e-waste, those antique shows, and those storage locker shows.

 

10 years ago on Ebay an Apple 2 anything would always sell for less than the shipping price, so no, I don't think it's Ebay being a problem. It's outside sources, like those storage locker shows, telling people who have no clue that an Atari 2600 is worth 300 bucks, or a small blurb in the New York Times about how collectors are going crazy for old "Macintosh //e" computers.

 

I don't think Ebay killed it, I think it's people outside the classic computing scene that happen to have old hardware that is killing it.

[bobotech]

Everything but ebay like others have said. Ebay has been around since what? 95? Classic computer prices and availability were good until about 2006 or so.

[ApolloBoy]

Not really eBay: Goodwill.com and damn "ewaste" recycle mentality.

I've been browsing around thrifts before Goodwill started auctions and I've never really come across any old computer hardware. I think most people around my area have seen that stuff as e-waste for years and that might be why I don't come across classic hardware in the wild that often. I'm all for recycling, but old collectible stuff should be given a chance or two before going away for good.

[Atari_Bill]

In the late 90s early 2000s, thrift stores were a GOLD MINE for all types of my collecting fetishes. Since around 2003 around here, they have tapered down to nothing. In the ones I used to frequent and had some contact with the employees, each have mentioned that they hold back anything that looks collectible to go to an auction site.

[AtariLeaf]

In the ones I used to frequent and had some contact with the employees, each have mentioned that they hold back anything that looks collectible to go to an auction site.

 

That seems to be becoming the norm, or in more "mom and pop" thrifts there seems to be a growing trend that with anything they deem valuable or collectible is to post print outs of ebay auctions to put with the item to justify its high price. Of course many times I notice these are simply current "buy it nows" that have been on ebay for a year, but pointing that out doesn't seem to stop them.

[Keatah]

Fleabay is a popular reference site for pricing. Shop owners are really too lazy to think through an appropriate price for what they post. The same thing can be said for initial ebay pricing to start with!

 

If there's one thing I'll say, this is only going to get "worse" as time rolls on, we're going to see people ignorant and unaware of the value and history behind classic computing. Parents and grandparents that used these systems and peripherals will die off and kids that neither care nor have any interest will be selling things that "look important" at random prices. The now generation and their litter will have small regard and sense of preservation for the old computers. Sooner or later much of the old electronics will go into the landfill. Knowledgeable collectors will be dying soon in the next 10 or 20 years and their stuff will migrate to the dump all by itself. Seemingly. As the economy continues to worsen we'll see people lightening up their baggage, and getting distracted from hobbies. This means more stuff is headed to the landfill. Anyway, I digress..

 

Having said that, I trolled epay for a bit and found this stuff. Don't worry, none of it is of major value. I'm just telling you what I believe is a fair price.

 

This is an example of a good and well-priced auction.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130595131935

 

So is this.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260884910461

 

and this

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 120802694382

 

this is getting to the upper limit of price/value, but still ok.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 220884487654

 

This is probably ok too, it looks to be in nice shape like the above listing

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 320648851681

 

This is a random price made-up-for-fun. And hope-I-hit-thejackpot because it is "OLD". Type of auction. The .PDF is available online. And unless you're opening up a major museum featuring the books and works of this author and publisher I could not even begin to fathom why anyone will pay this price. Possibly in a hundred or two hundred years, but even then.. SHIT!! man...

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 370100843649

 

and..

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360405544014

 

so is this, not to mention LAZY!! No pics or additional descriptions or condition

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 380312191990

 

And this is totally absurd! One should not pay more than $10, or $15 absolute tops for this or a functionally equivalent. NIB and shrinkwrapped might warrant $20-$30 for a collector. Fuck!

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360405682943

 

Here's another one that's shit, it will not work until you replace the battery module, which you cannot buy anymore - so you need to open it carefully and replaced the battery inside the module. Not hard, I did it many times already. Not to mention this is scratched and dusty. And totally out of line with pricing. There is no dox or box or disks with it either. And a NIB sealed NOS one of these gets about $40-$50 pricing.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 380381464146

[Keatah]

Fleabay is a popular reference site for pricing. Shop owners are really too lazy to think through an appropriate price for what they post. The same thing can be said for initial ebay pricing to start with!

 

Seems I was too lazy to think my typing through, the above line should read -- Fleabay is a popular reference site for pricing. Shop owners are really too lazy to think through an appropriate price for what they offer for sale. The same thing can be said for initial ebay pricing to start with!

[Rybags]

Nanny State mentality laws are also killing it.

 

Charity shops used to have plenty of electronic goods a while back, but AFAIK the 2nd-hand stuff they get now has to be Test & Tagged.

That costs more than the item is worth in a lot of cases, so there's no point doing it and it gets chucked out.

 

And the annoying thing about it is that most of the old gear runs on SFA Volts anyway, the only real danger comes from the wall-warts.

[Keatah]

Oh I had no idea it was a law to have to test electronics. This is "good news" in that it could help cause more rarity among classic computing hardware. I highly doubt the average thriftshop owner will know how to test expansion hardware for 1980's computers. This means more to the landfill, and less on the market. Rarity will mean prices will go up. It's good if you have a collection and are sitting on it with the intent of selling it later.

 

And what does "SFA" volts mean?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Keatah

[Rybags]

SFA = Sweet Fuck-All

ie next to nothing.

 

The law, I don't know how universal it is, it's derived here from tradesmen's tools having to be periodically certified as a work-safety thing, but fairly sure it was expanded to include 2nd-hand stuff sold in shops.

 

It's not necessarily the same in other countries, in fact it might fall to individual State's to regulate in the US.

 

The testing wouldn't really apply to low-voltage DC stuff like old computers/consoles or simple plugin devices but of course, what would the average retail worker know about what flows through the circuitry of an old console. So they'd just assume it's all mains voltage and not bother to go to the expense of having it certified.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Rybags

[krslam]

eBay was just one factor. Others include:

• Alternate selling venues such as craigslist.
  
• Natural burn down of the "found this in the attic" backlog
  
• Publishers threatening legal action against those selling used software (most thrifts in my area have little to no computer software, since they're unwilling to risk a lawsuit).
  
• Mandatory eWaste disposal fees ($10 per unit in this state). Much of what gets donated is unsellable, and the thrifts found themselves facing huge disposal costs so stopped accepting any kind of computer donation (except printers, scanners, and keyboards, which were exempt from the fee). This fee has been largely rescinded, but most stores aren't willing to risk getting burned again so still won't accept computer donations.
  

[desiv]

I wouldn't let e-bay off the hook too soon, just because they have been around for a long time and the price increase is more recent..

 

E-bay of 1995 is a MUCH different place than E-bay of today...

As E-bay has grown, it's gone from an on-line garage sale to a Mega-Mall of "antique dealers and Electronics Superstores!"

 

Many people seem to think things are worth what e-bay charges for them, which increases e-bay prices, which makes people think things are worth what e-bay is now charging for then, which increases prices.. etc..

 

And there's just enough people who pay the inflated prices just often enough to keep the cycle going..

(There was some chatter on an Amiga forum recently because a plain Amiga 500 sold on e-bay for over $140. No monitor, no extra disk drive (I think it did have the extra 512k they all have)...

 

I can't fault the people asking for those prices, but whose paying them????? Aarrghh...

 

I will agree with krslam tho, I think a lot of it has to do with the "Natural burn down" concept.. E-bay popularized this stuff, and for a while, everyone was selling their old stuff from the Attic.. But a lot of that is sold...

Now people are selling what they bought on e-bay and figure they should get even more than what they paid for it, since it's been a few years..

 

Oh well, sometimes we can still get a deal... And since its much less frequent, I feel even better when it happens..

Although, mostly I use e-bay as a point to find really inexpensive items from China... :-) I don't really need them, but it amazes me that I can get them shipped from China to my door for less money than I can get them shipped from somewhere in my same State...

 

desiv

[akator]

Thrifting works best in a good economy. In a good economy, people give away more. In a bad economy, people keep things longer or try to sell them instead of donating.

 

Since we are not in a good economy, it would make sense that there are fewer decent video game items at thrift stores. Instead of donating, people sell the games themselves. When items are donated, many thrift stores auction them instead selling locally. Everyone wants to get every last penny they can.

 

It doesn't apply only to electronics and video games -- be sure to check out the clothing as well. Every week I used to find awesome white linen tablecloths for $2 each, perfect for dust covers and all sorts of things, but high quality items like that haven't been around for years.

[SEgamer]

I don't blame ebay too much on the prices. Sure there are a TON of overpriced BINs going on, but that can be said for just about any item that is considered collectible to someone. There are still good deals on there, you just have to search for them more thanks to ebay's wierd process of handling search results now. Our Goodwill decided to move its more expensive stuff up to another Goodwill or to online auctions, because the electronics shelves never have a good selection anymore.

 

There are other sites out there that are much more insane, like recycledgoods.com. I'm assuming they get their stuff for minimum costs and try to sell it for x times the amount it's actually worth. I see old XT and AT keyboards on those sites priced at $80 or more when there are still some floating around out there that can be had cheap. 5.25" floppy drives are priced even worse than that.

 

All I do now when searching for old computer items is post a want ad in craigslist. I kept renewing it for months until recently when I found a few people that had some very nice items at great prices. I was surprised because I thought old computer stuff was non-existant where I live. Buying locally also helps me avoid buying something online and having it arrive at my house in pieces (monitors, keyboards, etc.)

[Hatta]

There are other sites out there that are much more insane, like recycledgoods.com. I'm assuming they get their stuff for minimum costs and try to sell it for x times the amount it's actually worth. I see old XT and AT keyboards on those sites priced at $80 or more when there are still some floating around out there that can be had cheap. 5.25" floppy drives are priced even worse than that.

 

Yeah, that happens because you have old 5150s controlling $150,000 lathes and other industrial equipment. When something goes on one of those, you need an exact replacement now and don't really care what you'll have to pay for it.

[SEgamer]

Yeah, that happens because you have old 5150s controlling $150,000 lathes and other industrial equipment. When something goes on one of those, you need an exact replacement now and don't really care what you'll have to pay for it.

 

Ah, I forgot about that situation. The main thing I was trying to get across that I forgot to mention was that those sites seem to come up first when searching model numbers for old computer stuff which would definitely affect the prices people come up with.

[Hatta]

Yeah, it does have a detrimental affect on pricing.

[Keatah]

Initially in the mid 90's and early 2000's,ebay was pretty neat. It was a forum for exchange. I could go there and see a rich collection of whatever classic stuff I was looking for. And not be inundated with pages of irrelevant stuff from powersellers. It used to be fun to troll through the listings. Now it takes a lot more work and fun factor is gone. So therefore I don't frequent it as much as I used to.

 

Ebay is becoming more a front for overseas distros. The selection of stuff they have to sell, while still somewhat rich & choice, is far more diluted now.

 

Ebay is also an easy way for folks to try and sell things that would otherwise go in the garbage. Actually a lot of folks say to just sell it on ebay, if not, then throw it away. That's why there's so much shit posted as "RARE" and "MINT" when in reality it is commonplace garbage.

 

Also, their fees used to be reasonable till about 2 years ago. But one thing is good is that some categories allow free listings. Shit, it's a requirement, because folks would not be willing to spend a dollar to list something only to not have it sell. And keep doing it over and over.. soon you reach a point where you gain nothing or go negative! But if it isn't selling anyways...???????

[Keatah]

I have a lot of these things, but I only paid like $5.00 or $10.00 for them, Or kept them from when I was a baby.

 

This one is pretty ragged and I'd pay only shipping for it, or perhaps $5.00 if I wanted a donor part to repair or complete another genuinely mint kit. Any other hoar, ahem COLLECTOR, of these things would do the tsame. The price is high because it is old, from 1972. Or so says the seller. Probably some old bag seeing "technical looking things" and getting all hard-up for making money or something. Has no clue as to what they're actually selling. That's a common thing. People posting and not knowing anything about what they're selling --

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 370544403211

 

And here --

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 290627500951

The seller lists this as mint. When clearly it is not. Here's why:

1- the plastic panel up top is warped

2- the solar battery is loose

3- the meter is loose

4- the IC unit is faded brown, it should be ceramic white

5- the handle is broken

6- the has scribbling on it

7- there are stains on the wood finish

8- red tape is coming off the bar antenna

9- the left latch is bent

10- the microphone is missing

11- the earphone is missing

12- the hookup wires are missing

13- the vinyl pouch for the wires is missing

14- the red stylus for bending the springs is missing

15- the manual cover is dog-eared and shows signs of wear.

16- the retail shelf outer slip cover "box" is missing.

I would not expect this to move at any price above $20, tops! If that.

 

One other thing, People are complaining less and less about high costs of shipping. Years ago they used to argue and bitch about it. However, today, I can select almost any shipping price I want on a serious collectible and no one complains! Even if the final post stamp on the received item is 2x less than what I charged in the auction. Everyone understands shipping is high these days, but they are overestimating the true cost.

 

Granted, I pack the stuff well and take my time and buy foam or special wrap or boxes if needed. But still, I make out like a bandit! Years ago I wouldn't think of charging for packing material, and time, and motorcar gas to retrieve it. But now, it all gets rolled into the shipping and initial listing price. Shit, roll your paypal costs and bank fees AND ebay fees into it for bonus padding! Go a step further and charge for the time you spend initiating and maintaining the auction. Wrap it up by charging delivery fees based on petrol and time and mileage to and from the post office. Fuck! Do it all! Just like the real stores and businesses do! Leave no cost forgiven. Customer pays all!

[Keatah]

There will be a time when my Apple II collection, valued around $2,000 or $3,000 today, could net $25,000 or more. It all depends on how quickly the existing infrastructure and forces that govern the movements of such goods keeps classic computers in circulation and visible.

 

Like I said before, this classic stuff will make its way to the landfill, get wiped out in fires and floods, wear out, break, get lost, stolen, scrapped and recycled, ground up, crushed, shredded, melted, use in other projects, get restored and preserved, hoarded away, hidden, or simply left to rot in a shed.

 

There is a limited "supply" of authentic genuine classic hardware. And while the supply is pretty generous right now, it's dwinding day-by-day.

 

Right now, I have a few extra Apple ///+ units. I, personally value them at $50 - $75 each. Eventually they will climb to be several hundred dollars or more. But now, they don't exceed a hundred bucks - IMHO.

 

What else is interesting is that some "big" vendors are buying up systems and dis-assembling them bit by bit and parting them out.

See this -- eBay Auction -- Item Number: 190556859625 -- So apparently a working Apple /// system was scrapped and the parts now being sold. Granted I don't know the condition of the housing or anything else. This is a good thing! It makes it one-less functioning system out there. And now my Apple /// systems probably jumped in price by, ohh I don't know, $0.0023 ? Does that sound like a fair increase in price?

 

It is also good, because, now with parts readily available I can use that as a selling point later. AND, folks will be less hesitant to buy a 30-year old computer. They know they can get necessary parts to effect a repair.

 

Time, folks, give it time.

[Keatah]

Also, with time, the actual hardware will matter less and less except to diehard purists and collectors. The common man wishing to explore what computers were like back then will turn to the internet and look at pictures and play stuff through emulation. Going further is pointless. So in that respect, classic hardware will never command a high price on the market. Now or later. I digress..

[bobotech]

I really don't think that classic computer values will continue to climb in value over time. There will be a point where the people who truly care about the classic hardware start dying off or not caring and the value will start going down. People in their 40s and up are the ones who really care about the classic hardware. When we start getting older and dying off, then the younger generations are just not going to care about the classic stuff other than historically significant classics like the Lisa, the original 128k Mac, the original IBM PC, Altairs, and stuff like that.