john6370 Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 HI, I am new to these boards do if this topic is old, i am sorry. Anyways i have all three systems and all three do some things better then the other and they all have some good games and some really bad ones too. First The atari Jaguar. The 3 games that realy push this system -that i have played- AVP -hands down the best FPS of its day, better then anything graphically on the 3do and 3dx when it came to fps type games. DOOM - at the time it was released it was the best version to be released until the psx version and i think the only version that is better is the psx version because i sega saturn had worse graphics...Anyways, i got this game christmas of 94 and i also got the 32x version...needless to say the 32x version went back to the store on December 26. iron soldier - WOW! at the time this was my fav game behind AVP. I loved this game...i loved just blowing up buildings. the graphics are good for its time and the game is just plain fun....... Those are my three picks for jag games that really push the system and are fun too. 3DO three games i pick are Need for speed - W0W! what a game and what fun. This game was one of the best looking games until the psx version and that was not much better. I remember playing this game when it first came out and thanking god for my 3do...... Madden football - Ok the jaguar had better FPS type games, but 3do had better sports games. This game set a standard for next-gen football games. Return Fire - another game that really pushes the 3do and looks just as good as the psx version. 32x Yes this system had some good games that pushed it a little...and are fun too my three fav 32x games. Virtua Racing - this is one of the reasons to get a 32x...a almost perfect arcade port and for its time it had good graphics....it really shows that the 32x can push ploys...and i think the 32x can push more polys then both the 3d0 and jaguar... Virtural fighter - some will say it has better graphics then the saturn version...again the 3do does not have anything that come close to this type of game and the atari jaguar did have fight for life...but buy the time it came out the 32x was history Star wars arcade- again a poly type game...but the graphis looked good for its time and i loved it...... anyways those are my picks for the 3 best games on each system.... closing comments I think all three systems did alot to improve on newer systems like (sega saturn and PSX) both the PSX and Sega Saturn had to be more powerful then those 3 and they both had better software support. Also these systems were never really pushed to the max. just look at first gen psx games from 1995 and compair them to 2000 games. even the sega saturn had 2nd and some 3rd generation games. We only seen sparcks of what those systems can do in the few good games they had. OK..now what they should of done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hey, I have owned a 32x and a Jag, but not a 3do. Ah, the memories from the mid-90's..... This was around the time I really started to get interested in gaming a lot. I bought a 32x before my Jag, and the first game I bought was Virtua Racing, and I thought is was great! Very fun indeed. The second game I got was Doom, which I believe was one of the first home console versions released, along with Jag Doom. I remember contemplating which game to buy for my 32x when I got it. Lol, I had no idea what Doom even was at the time, as I had never owned a pc back then, so I went with Virtua Racing first and Doom later. But wow, the first time playing Doom was awesome, I couldn't get enough of it. I have heard many people bag the 32x version because it wasn't the best version out there because obviously the pc version was better and the Jag version was a bit better also. But I was playing it for the first time so even if it was the SNES version(which really wasn't bad for 16-bit) I would've loved it. The Jag has many great games, too many to list really. I was always very impressed by Doom, AVP, Tempest and Iron Soldier especially (and hopefully soon Battlesphere ; ), even today they are loads of fun even though I beat the games many times over, with the exception of Tempest, which I haven't beat w/out codes But you can tell when a game is great when you beat it and you still want to play it some more. There seems to be a trend with games on the current systems, where once I beat it, I have no desire to play any more, I don't know, everyone is focusing way too much on graphics now. As far as the 3do, I remember seeing Road Rash, and man, was I impressed! I was used to the original (awesome) Genesis version, and when I saw the 3do version I was blown away. Anyways, that's what's so great about the Jag still being around and games still being made for it, because when you feel Nastalgic, you can go back to playing some of the many classics for the Jag, and better yet, you can look forward to the many (hopefully) new games to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 There seems to be a trend with games on the current systems, where once I beat it, I have no desire to play any more. Thats's not co-incidence. If you only play a game once, your more likely to go out and buy the sequal, mission pack, bug fix, etc. This is unfortunatly what happens when grey men in grey suits are running the entertainment industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Don't forget to try BattleSphere. It takes all of the good things about Star Wars Arcade and adds all the good things about Star Raiders and TIE Fighter and X-Wing and combines them with all the original things that are unique to BattleSphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I think the jag is the most powerful of the three hardwarewise. Needless to say that the 32X cant compete with both the 3do and jag, but i believe the jag is better than the 3D0. I wasnt much impressed by Road Rash (or Crashn'Burn, NfS) because its flat and shallow and no real 3d at all. Iron Soldier on the Jag was my first "real" 3d game i 'd ever played and i was impressed by its open, free approach of gaming in a real 3d gaming world. RR might have all that fancy texture/FMV stuff but you should look beneath that. AvP was my favourite in terms of pure graphical prowess, its not that complex and it might be slightly choppy but it looked simply jar-dropping back then. Too bad that the jag is a total bummer with racing games and sports, the 3do really shines in that category (compared to jag), thanks to EA and its big budget and licences. Would be nice if someone could write a fast polygon engine for a true Jag racing game :-) bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 There seems to be a trend with games on the current systems, where once I beat it, I have no desire to play any more. Thats's not co-incidence. If you only play a game once, your more likely to go out and buy the sequal, mission pack, bug fix, etc. This is unfortunatly what happens when grey men in grey suits are running the entertainment industries. Yes, you are correct, it seems 75% of games coming out are sequels, and movies are just as bad. Now don't get me wrong, some sequels are good, but too many just turns me off... T-Bird....I'd love to get my hands on BS! So how are things coming along with the release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Well, the Jaguar and 3DO are my two favorite systems (in that order) still today, even though I have a DC and Xbox. I pretty much agree with everything John said as far as the games, although I didn't care for Madden at all. Fifa Soccer is the best 3DO sports title IMHO. I also think NFS is awsome, and it's still my favorite racer, I have a lot on the DC but none compare to 3DO NFS fun-wise to me, I'm still searching for a racer that tops it. I think Starfighter and SpaceHulk are other fantastic 3DO games that are overlooked; they rock! and the Wing commander games are my other favorites. On the 32x, I like Star Wars, but I think Shadow squadron is much better overall. Star Trek is another favorite of mine on the 32x. I agree that none of these systems ever saw their full potential because of short lifespans. They were just starting to tap their potential with the second generation games (the few that came out) and the other 32-bit systems saw 3rd, 4th and beyond generations of games, so they were stretched a bit further in their potential. Although I do admit that the PSX is easily more poweful than these, I don't think the Saturn is, I own them all, so I speaking from experience. I didn't even think Battlesphere on the Jag was the best the system can do, and was proven correct with the release of BSG which improved on it quite a bit (from what I'm told and have seen of screen shots). I still think the Jaguar is at least as powerful as the 3DO, if not slightly more in some areas, it's just that the 3DO had built-in texturemapping, so it was easier to make games look better early on...I'm sure the Jag could handle any of the 3DO's games, but I don't feel the same way about the 3DO. Battlesphere is of course a perfect example, I couldn't see the 3DO pulling this game off at the same frame-rate with all the effects BS has. Sure the 3DO could do texture-mapping, but that system was being stretched with the few games it has doing 24-25fps...most are running at 15-20 from what I can see, but that's true of most Jaguar games too. As far as racing games go, NFS is definately better than anything on the Jag, but World tour Racing totally blows away the F1 game the 3DO has... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hey Gunstar, I have Gran Turismo 3, and that game is deeeeep. And very awesome. But I'm guessing you're tastes are more suited to arcade racers. I can't judge NFS as I have never played it. But I love just about any racer, as they are one of my favorite genres. btw, I hear the newest Need for Speed(Hot Pursuit 2?) is really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6370 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Most Atari jaguar games look 16bit ...Have you noticed this? I think developers put little effort in the creation of solid games for the jaguar. I can think of only a few games that make this system stand out as a next generation system.....I remember getting the gaguar and playing pitfal and thinking this looks just like my snes and i was really mad...but i also remember playing AVP and thinking this looks better then anything i have everplayed. I blame part of this on both atari and lazy developers... Atari made developers happy and lazy by using the 68k chip(the same one in both the genesis and 3do) that is a nice chip, but alot of developers used it as the main processor and not the manager processor. One thing sony learned is that developers are lazy and want everything to be one on the main processor....but then sony forgot what they learned and made the ps2....lol...anyways if atari would of used a 32bit main cpu like a intel 486dx chip or even a 386sx with a math processor and the tom and jerry as the graphic processor things might of been a llittle better..because in 1993 both the 386 and 486 cpus could run games like doom. An example I remember playing my first doom game on a 386sx that ran at 33mhz and it ran just fine...better then the 32x version and i was able to play it in full screen.....anyways a nice 32bit chip wuould of been nice for developers to fool aroud with and also they could of even used the next gen motorola 32bit chips found in appla computers...and that woud of been sweet... OK i know in theory Atari had the right idea...but developers are lazy and if you don't hand it to them they will not produce.... BY developers i mean the management of the company......because programers love to fool around with new ideas.. but money is always the problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkoVitch Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 John@ I think the inclusion of a x86 based chip would have hampered the Jag more than helped, from what I have heard/seen they are not pleasent to program, and it would lead to programmers using that more than the shiny RISC CPU's of Tom & Jerry. Plus I think the cost of the x86 based stuff was far greater than the 68K, which would have bumped up costs of the Jag. If they were going to go for a CISC based main CPU tha has more power then I think they should have plumped for an 020 or possibly 030? but the cost again was probably the downer. A PowerPC chip would have been nice but again these were new and expensive, 68K was cheap as chips. I'd guess the 16bit looking games came about as the platform was new, no-one had much chance to play with it's new toys or probably understand them. Look at early PSX games compared to later ones.. ie Ridge Racer versus arcade mode on GT. The graphics are far more complex and superior in later games as people lean what they can do with the hardware. A nice simple pretty looking platform game gets you some idea of the market and of how the Jag works. Hey presto you can now use that knowledge to work on the next title etc etc. unfortunately the Jag died and I guess this Cycle never got into full swing. I would guess people like T-Bird came up with a cool idea and worked on that until it was right, whereas other aimed lower so they could get something out the door. Also I wouldn't always say programmers love playing with new things. I have been programming since I was 12, I love programming, and I have started Jag dev, I have yet to play with the RISC CPU's and have just been playing with the 68K as I know that language already. I do plan to move on, but that requres some time, and I don't know the system well enough yet to feel comfortable doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagMX Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Don't forget to try BattleSphere. It takes all of the good things about Star Wars Arcade and adds all the good things about Star Raiders and TIE Fighter and X-Wing and combines them with all the original things that are unique to BattleSphere. just make sure you skip your insurance payment to pay for the original Battlesphere and make sure you skip your mortgage payment for the month to pay for BSsilver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hey Gunstar, I have Gran Turismo 3, and that game is deeeeep. And very awesome. But I'm guessing you're tastes are more suited to arcade racers. I can't judge NFS as I have never played it. But I love just about any racer, as they are one of my favorite genres. btw, I hear the newest Need for Speed(Hot Pursuit 2?) is really good. GT3 on what system? As a matter of fact, I'm middle of the road so to speak in racing games, I like real world physics (NFS 3DO was one of the first games to head in this direction), but I HATE having to go through all that license crap in GT just so you can race bigger tracks and better cars. I want to start out with the exotic sports cars like NFS, not some lame Mini or toyota crap! But, I also prefer driving on the open road with traffic and cops and going through different locals and landscapes more than racing on tracks, even if they are "real world" courses. I have tried every NFS that has come out since the original and they all suck compared to the original as far as I'm concerned, some are good, but not as good as 3DO NFS (except for having better frame rates, but I have the code for 3DO NFS to get rid of the dash and that ups the frame-rate quite nicely). Vanishing Point on the DC is the closest I've come to the original NFS experience, but there are no cops, the crashes suck and your racing the clock more than an opponent(s) and it's still on tracks that you keep going around and around instead of actually getting from point A to B on a long stretch of road. Test Drive on the Xbox looks tempting though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hey Gunstar, Gran Turismo 3: A Spec is only on the PS2, lol, and I know where you're coming from about starting the game with the crappy cars, but this game has something that I think is absolutely necessary in a good game......replay value, and tons of it. I really HATE when I plunk down dough to buy a game, play it once through, and never touch it again. With GT3, man.....I have played that thing for hours upon hours upon hours, and just recently have I tired of it a bit. I have it almost 80% complete, which is pretty darn good I think (Anyone else?) But this games physics are incredible to say the least. This game is definetely not a rental, if you just played this game a bit (which it seems you did) you wouldn't really have much fun with it. You have to buy this game and dig into it, it's a great game. And I love arcade racers too with the weapons, obstacles, shortcuts....etc...Wipeout Fusion anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 The best racing game is Grand Prix Legends, hands down. Nascar 2002 is sweet too. If you like top notch physics and AI, you should stick with them. Never played GT3 for a long run, big hype around this game. I think its more likely an arcade racer with more complex physics than RR or Daytona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I think Iron Soldier 2 really pushes the Jag in a hard way, so if there's a game showing you the capabilities of the hardware, my vote goes for this masterpiece. Im not sure about figures, but it IS massive with polygons and even capable to do texture mapping. The original game was coded by one of the best 3d wizards in Germany, Michael Bittner. He did both Have a NICE Day games and his current project is a racing game too, with superior graphics. Its "Mercedes Racing" , coming out for Xbox and PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I would guess people like T-Bird came up with a cool idea and worked on that until it was right, whereas other aimed lower so they could get something out the door. That was our idea, but we probably could have done what we did in the same amount of time as everyone else had Atari been funding us OR giving us tech support. They seemed to hate us and so it took us a long time to finish. Other developers were getting funded by Atari and taking the money and using it to buy development tools for OTHER platforms. They worked on their Jag titles only when Atari threatened to pull their plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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