Super Hydlide

[Arkhan]

I don't mean you literally push them.

 

but if you stand next to them, they can't walk through you, so eventually they stop trying and walk a different way. You can do that until they move out of your way.

 

 

Or, just kill them if you really want to.

[Austin]

Super Hydlide has no ramming system!

 

There's no ramming in this one? Was that the NES one that did that then? I watched some videos and it looked like that's how it played. Granted, I wouldn't be able to tell if someone behind the screen was actually pushing a button to do that, ha.

[Arkhan]

No ramming. You have an attack button. You also can get ranged weaponry.

[sheath]

All of the talk about Super Hydlide actually being good caused me to pick it up complete recently for twelve bucks. Hopefully I'll be able to get into it like few RPGs allow me to and play it all the way through.

[Protoplasym]

I gave it about an hour playthrough earlier this year.... it was really solid, 8/10 from my brief experience with it. It definitely looks like something I could sink a multitude of time into given the chance. I also thought it looked quite nice compared to most RPGs on the Genny.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Protoplasym

[mehunglo]

One of the few games I actually beat back in the day. Wouldn't be able to get into it now though.

[marthbrightblade]

This was an ok game, I played it after Phantasy Star 2 so it was kinda a downer I remember.

[marthbrightblade]

^{I was always partial to Virtual though, the remake of one.}

Edited August 24, 2012 by marthbrightblade

[Arkhan]

yeahhhhh VIRTUAL HYDLIDE!

 

it was an OK game. Kinda dopey, but thats the Saturns fault, really.

[+Gemintronic]

This game is one of the few that match the capabilities of BasiEgaXorz right out of the box:

http://devster.monkeeh.com/sega/basiegaxorz/

 

Anyone with QuickBASIC knowledge could recreate Super Hydlide. The tile buffer on the Genesis is bigger than the visible screen. When you move to the next "room" all you need to do is draw the new screen and move the view there.

[Austin]

LOL.. Virtual Hydlide.. Cool concept for the time, but the seriously awful framerate completely kills it.

[Arkhan]

This game is one of the few that match the capabilities of BasiEgaXorz right out of the box:

http://devster.monke...ga/basiegaxorz/

 

Anyone with QuickBASIC knowledge could recreate Super Hydlide. The tile buffer on the Genesis is bigger than the visible screen. When you move to the next "room" all you need to do is draw the new screen and move the view there.

 

lol, that would be funny as hell.

 

BASIClyde.

[108 Stars]

I really never liked this.

The problem is that it is basically the same as previous Hydlides, ignoring that years had passed and the MD was capable of so much more; it is an MSX game at heart, and it barely hides it... not even a very accessible one at that.

 

And damn, it has to be one of the ugliest games on the system!

 

There is one thing I really like about Super Hydlide though: the theme music.

Edited September 21, 2012 by 108 Stars

[Arkhan]

What were they supposed to do, spiff up everything just for us Westerners? We get everything late. Deal with it. Hydlide 1 came to us AFTER Zelda, but before Zelda in Japan. Accept the fact and change your frame of reference to be fair to the game.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "accessible".

 

It's easy to access the game. You just put it in and turn the Sega on.

 

 

also, it was the first RPG for the Genesis. It did a great job.

[108 Stars]

I disagree.

 

First of all it as not the first RPG on the system. Phantasy Star II was.

 

Secondly, THIS game was naturally not released before Zelda. Hydlide 1 was, but that's not the same game. Nor the same platform.

 

This is a 1989 game on a then state of the art platform, and the developers gave a shit and just did a sloppy, quick port for some quick cash. Also the argument of this being 1984 gameplay and it's not the devs fault that us westerners got it so late is not good; again, this game was released in 1989 in Japan. Throughout the years you can expect from any dev to improve their games; it is how it is usually done. Here we get a game was developed in 1989 and did not take into account the improvements in gameplay achieved or the better technology. It has to be seen as the 1989 game it is, and it is poor by the time's standards. Westerners did not even have to wait long for a translation.

 

Please do not tell me to put it into the right perspective to be able to judge the game fair; when it comes to MD I know quite a bit, I know its games and I know what it is capable of. And this game did a piss-poor job. It completely disregarded the evolution in gameplay and the system's capabilities. The graphical quality alone is not even a matter of memory issues; this is a matter of effort. To make a game look like this on MD shows the devs just rushed it without care.

 

You can't tell me this was a great job with a straight face.

The game was panned even back in the day, and for good reason.

Edited September 21, 2012 by 108 Stars

[Arkhan]

First of all it as not the first RPG on the system. Phantasy Star II was.

I am pretty sure it was released in the USA on the Genesis before Phantasy Star 2. Genesis != Megadrive. I am not certain though, since I was 1 when it came out.

 

Splitting hairs anyways, the ORIGINAL game itself is older than PS2. So, even if it didn't hit first, it doesn't really matter. The game is a port. It was already designed. Phantasy Star II's mechanics have no influence over it.

 

 

 

Secondly, THIS game was naturally not released before Zelda. Hydlide 1 was, but that's not the same game. Nor the same platform.

Thank you! I never said it was. I in fact said Hydlide 1 which you just mentioned. Learn how to read, dude.

 

 

 

 

This is a 1989 game on a then state of the art platform, and the developers gave a shit and just did a sloppy, quick port for some quick cash. Also the argument of this being 1984 gameplay and it's not the devs fault that us westerners got it so late is not good; again, this game was released in 1989 in Japan. Throughout the years you can expect from any dev to improve their games; it is how it is usually done. Here we get a game was developed in 1989 and did not take into account the improvements in gameplay achieved or the better technology. It has to be seen as the 1989 game it is, and it is poor by the time's standards. Westerners did not even have to wait long for a translation.

The original game (Hydlide 3: The Space Memories) is not from 1984.

 

It's from 1987 and I don't think you will find many action RPGs of comparable quality back then. Or any at all really.

 

No one is using the 1984 argument. It's 1987 gameplay. You can't port a game and change the gameplay drastically from the original. Duhrrrrr.

 

 

Porting a game and developing a new game are two different things.

 

 

 

Please do not tell me to put it into the right perspective to be able to judge the game fair; when it comes to MD I know quite a bit, I know its games and I know what it is capable of. And this game did a piss-poor job. It completely disregarded the evolution in gameplay and the system's capabilities. The graphical quality alone is not even a matter of memory issues; this is a matter of effort. To make a game look like this on MD shows the devs just rushed it without care.

It did a piss poor job of what? Being an enhanced port of the original game? The graphics and music are improved over the original, and that was the intent.

 

All you are doing here is waving your Sega Knowledge Penis around, while failing to wave your common sense one around.

 

What did you want them to do, change the movement style of the game?

 

make the sprites larger to allow more detail?

 

You'd then have to make all the towns have larger tiles to go with them.

 

and then redo all the maps.

 

and then yknow, you'd be making a completely different game.

 

Congratulations. You fail miserably at understanding what a port is.

 

You sound like you wanted them to take the Hydlide 1 concepts and build upon them in a 1989 manner, complete with fully exploiting the Sega Megadrive to its fullest potential that you know lots about.

 

In 1989. Early in the Genesis' life. Definitely a time when all of the developers were pushing the system to its fullest potential.

 

Totally.

 

The Genesis has janky color possibilities anways. Phantasy Star III was dithery just like this game. Whoopeedee doo. Graphics aren't everything anyways.

 

Anyway, I'd be really curious to see someone take the art as-is, and enhance the shit out of it and see if it's really possible to make it THAT different.

 

I don't think you'll really manage a much better job. Other games from the time on Genesis had goofy graphics too. When you have smashed down little sprites like Hydlide, what do you honestly expect?

 

 

 

 

You can't tell me this was a great job with a straight face.

The game was panned even back in the day, and for good reason.

 

Whats funny is, apparently in Germany (Your location?) and France, it got shit reviews. I don't trust anything Germany says or does regarding games. Thank Turrican.

 

Sega16 gave it a 70/100. That's not so bad. I'd give it an 80ish/100 myself.

 

 

It wasn't panned in Japan, and wasn't panned by the MSX crowd in Europe either.

 

It can't be as bad as you claim anyways, seeing as the Hydlide series has gotten more upgrades on Windows.

 

 

I will tell you its a great game with a straight face all day, every day. I've played the game enough to know it's a good game on both the MSX and the Genesis.

 

You're missing out.

[+Gemintronic]

Sega Knowledge P_ _ _ s? I'll have you know mine is OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!

[Arkhan]

I'd be curious how well versed the developers for any Sega Genesis games were back in 1988/1989.

 

If it's anything like the start of any new platform, they were a bit, yknow, new to it.

 

 

Sonic 1 vs. Sonic 3.

 

I bet if they tried to do Sonic 3 stuff in Sonic 1, the game would have taken forever and people would have cried.

[108 Stars]

lol

 

First of all don't blame me for picking up the 1984 argument you made. And don't go nitpicking about the Genesis-/MD-name convention, that just looks silly. When you mention a japanese release date in one sentence, but claim that you meant Super Hydlide was later IN THE US, not Japan (as if that played a role to the japanese devs of both PSII and SH), you're really not helping your cause.

 

 

Yes, I expect just what you said from porting a game from an 8-bit homecomputer to a 16-bit system. More detail, more colors (wtf have more colors to do with dithering? The more colors, the less dithering needed). A game needs a serious overhaul. And hell yeah, the gameplay should have been enhanced. Again, that's common sense when you do a console version of an older computer game. You can't just slap a two year old 8-bit game on a cart for a shiny new 16-bit system and expect it to be well received.

 

A Mega Drive game just has to be judged by different standards than an older MSX game. If a game fails so hard at utilizing the superor hardware, it fails completely. Congrats on looking up Moby Games btw. Sega-16 gave the game a 7/10 /(not 70, since Sega-16 has a 10 point rating system). Every review there is one writer's opinion; and this has lead to some things like Thunderblade getting a perfect score. The user score is 6.3, but only 3 people even cared to rate this thing.

 

About your subtile racism: Well, I could argue that maybe German magazines usually were more critical than whatever ones you read (oh, you read none as you were only 1). Which let to a lot less rave reviews for games overall, and a lot more average scores. Turrican? Well, I'm no fan of it either, but the games did not only get great ratings in Germany, but all over Europe. The computer versions though, not the console ones that received mediocre scores here just like in the US.

 

I say you know very little of what you are talking of; you just look it up on Wikipedia or Moby. You can not AT ALL blame the techical quality of Super Hydlide on inexperience. Inexperience can explain the technical difference between PS II and PS IV, or Sonic and Sonic 2, or many other games; but Super Hydlide looks so damn weak it has nothing to do with that. This has to do with just not making an effort to use the possibilities the hardware offers.

 

It:s perfectly fine if you like this game; actually I see it quite often that people look at games differently in retrospect and have a more positive impression than the general gamer back in the day did, who for some reason largely ignored this game (I wonder why? Can't be because of the genre since Phantasy Star II was so well-received and sold so well and is still held in high regard for being a classic of the time).

 

But don't you get at me for posting my opinion, saying the game is shit and a piss-poor job if I think so, and tell me I have to set my sights straight to judge it fair. I post my opinion in a thread about Super Hydlide, like is expected in a public forum, and just because you disagree you have no right to claim I can't judge the games I played back in the day, on a system I have been helping developing for, talking to experienced homebrewers fair. When I make a mistake in judging an NES or 7800 game (see a recent thread) that's perfectly fine and I have to admit I can make mistakes when I do not know the details. But if there is a system I can judge games on just fine, it's the Mega Drive.

[+Gemintronic]

I personally wouldn't mind a Super Hydlide homage with:

 

* Less jankety movements

* I think there was starvation like Nethack?

[108 Stars]

I personally wouldn't mind a Super Hydlide homage with:

 

* Less jankety movements

* I think there was starvation like Nethack?

 

You could do it. As you said, it could be recreated in BASIC... plus a few enhancements by yourself.

[Arkhan]

First of all don't blame me for picking up the 1984 argument you made. And don't go nitpicking about the Genesis-/MD-name convention, that just looks silly. When you mention a japanese release date in one sentence, but claim that you meant Super Hydlide was later IN THE US, not Japan (as if that played a role to the japanese devs of both PSII and SH), you're really not helping your cause.

 

I never brought up the year 1984 in this thread. You did.

 

And, I will use the Genesis vs. Megadrive naming all I want. You will note we talked about when a game came out in Japan vs. Here. It is the same thing. When we're talking about here and there, it helps to differentiate with the right console names. If you don't like it and thinks it makes me look silly, that's cool.

 

The point is, your frame of reference, and basically anyone outside of Japan's, is a bit off for games like Hydlide, and it is a shame.

 

Hydlide 1 came out here AFTER we got Zelda, so it got trashed left and right. It was compared to Zelda, despite being created before Zelda. To be honest, Zelda 1 is boring as shit. I like Zelda II a million times more. That's the "1984" argument. Hydlide 1. The first game. It gets trashed unfairly by people who got to it late.

 

It'd be like watching the original Godzilla movie for the first time now and going DAMN, THOSE SPECIAL EFFECTS BLOW.

 

No kidding. It's old.

 

 

Yes, I expect just what you said from porting a game from an 8-bit homecomputer to a 16-bit system. More detail, more colors (wtf have more colors to do with dithering? The more colors, the less dithering needed). A game needs a serious overhaul. And hell yeah, the gameplay should have been enhanced. Again, that's common sense when you do a console version of an older computer game. You can't just slap a two year old 8-bit game on a cart for a shiny new 16-bit system and expect it to be well received.

The Genesis always has dithering all over since the color limitations are a bit goony. Or, you get cartoony graphics like Phantasy Star 2. They are bright, vivid, and Anime like. Super Hydlide isn't. If you aren't going for the cutesy bright anime look, you basically end up having to dither stuff. Even the cutesy bright anime stuff is dithery. Look at Ristar. Bright and dithered!

 

However, I like dithering. I think it looks neat. I sometimes prefer it over the non-dithered, extra colorful crap on other systems.

 

Super Hydlide Looks like they borrowed from Altered Beast's art direction and just shrunk it down. It's early Genesis art at its finest: kinda pale and dithery.

 

How would you have enhanced the gameplay? You haven't offered any opinion on what is actually wrong.

 

Are you anti Hydlide 3, or just anti Super Hydlide.

 

 

A Mega Drive game just has to be judged by different standards than an older MSX game. If a game fails so hard at utilizing the superor hardware, it fails completely. Congrats on looking up Moby Games btw. Sega-16 gave the game a 7/10 /(not 70, since Sega-16 has a 10 point rating system). Every review there is one writer's opinion; and this has lead to some things like Thunderblade getting a perfect score. The user score is 6.3, but only 3 people even cared to rate this thing.

Uh, you make it sound like one shouldn't look up reviews of games. However, this means you looked it up too, lol.

 

7/10 and 70/100 are the same thing. Its 70%. Nitpicking. I could have said 700/1000. *shrug*

 

Not many games in that early time really utilized the superior hardware. Look at Zoom. Great game. Hardly does a damn thing.

 

Ys III was on both systems (MSX and MegadriveGenesis). They play the same. Actually, the Sega one is worse since some wise-ass artist got Adol's hair wrong. They should haved used the superior graphics capabilities to get that red hair done right. Yknow?

 

 

About your subtile racism: Well, I could argue that maybe German magazines usually were more critical than whatever ones you read (oh, you read none as you were only 1). Which let to a lot less rave reviews for games overall, and a lot more average scores. Turrican? Well, I'm no fan of it either, but the games did not only get great ratings in Germany, but all over Europe. The computer versions though, not the console ones that received mediocre scores here just like in the US.

I really don't mind Germany. I was just finding a way to make fun of Turrican some more, because I hate that game. It's junk with sweet music and graphics.

 

 

I say you know very little of what you are talking of; you just look it up on Wikipedia or Moby. You can not AT ALL blame the techical quality of Super Hydlide on inexperience. Inexperience can explain the technical difference between PS II and PS IV, or Sonic and Sonic 2, or many other games; but Super Hydlide looks so damn weak it has nothing to do with that. This has to do with just not making an effort to use the possibilities the hardware offers.

Oh no, I looked up reviews on moby games out of curiosity. It immediately makes me not know anything. Even so, looking around for information is better than just making shit up out of thin air. Christ. Where else should I find reviews? Should I just hit my face on the desk until they show up in my brain? To be honest, I don't even look at reviews because I don't trust other people's opinions about games. I play games myself to see if I like them.

 

I could just go look at boxes to see release years. Or the title screens. What difference does that honestly make? You are grasping and nitpicking.

 

This section I quoted really makes you look like an ass. You aren't the only one who does development on old systems. I develop for MSX and PC Engine, and used to mess with the C64 and Amiga. It's not like I am clueless about old hardware. Still learning, yes. Clueless, no.

 

It's commonplace for early year games to barely push the systems hardware. Every system does this.

 

The earliest C64 and MSX games are pretty frigging dorky. Look at Nintendo's NES games. Balloon Fight ain't exactly a hardware smasher.

 

Genesis: Sonic 1 vs. Sonic 3, again.

 

T&E Soft only put out like one other Megenegadrivesis game: Undeadline. I think they did a sport game or two, but I don't play that crap. They weren't exactly experienced at all.

 

and again, how would you honestly fix the graphics and gameplay without changing the game completely from the original one that they were porting. You clearly want a remake, not a port.

 

 

But don't you get at me for posting my opinion, saying the game is shit and a piss-poor job if I think so, and tell me I have to set my sights straight to judge it fair. I post my opinion in a thread about Super Hydlide, like is expected in a public forum, and just because you disagree you have no right to claim I can't judge the games I played back in the day, on a system I have been helping developing for, talking to experienced homebrewers fair. When I make a mistake in judging an NES or 7800 game (see a recent thread) that's perfectly fine and I have to admit I can make mistakes when I do not know the details. But if there is a system I can judge games on just fine, it's the Mega Drive.

 

I think your Sega Hardware Expertise is getting in the way of you actually enjoying the game. You're too busy pissing and moaning about what the hardware could do as opposed to just taking the game for what it is: A port of an old ass game that has sweet FM music.

 

Games don't have to push the limits, be the best shit ever, and do the unthinkable to be good.

 

Like I said, look at Zoom. That game's pretty basic, and it's beyond fun. It's one of my favorite games on the system.

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm not getting at you for posting your opinion, I am just saying your opinion seems a bit biased towards taking advantage of the Sega Megadriveasis and is possibly a short sighted, and maybe you should rethink it, or give the game another go with the thought in mind that this is an old game from before the Genegadriveasis. There's nothing wrong with posting an opinion, and nothing wrong with debating opinions. It's public forum discussion excitement. If you think I am actually attempting to insult you or something, whoops.

 

 

 

I am a strange case. I play alot of old games that were before my time. Akalabeth is a good example. I spent hours with that game AFTER getting a Playstation 1.

 

I still enjoyed the stickmen and stupid looking art on the overhead map.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ANYWAY:

 

 

You get fatigued in the game. There is day/night in the game!

 

the jankety movements are actually part of how the fighting works, and how everything in the game lines up. The smoothness might actually make the game less playable.

 

 

 

 

Anyone who's good at art want to do mockups of SuperHydlide with the same sized sprites, but done better? I'm pretty curious.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Arkhan

[Austin]

Oh no! The plastic fumes from the Jaguar forum are seeping out to other areas of AtariAge! WE'RE ALL DOOOOOOOMED!!!

[Arkhan]

YEAHHAHAAAAAAA INHALE IT ALL

 

IN THE NAME OF JAGUARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

 

lol

[+thegoldenband]

I personally think the game's simplistic presentation is a non-issue. I'm not surprised people bring it up, and I was a little shocked at first by the lack of animation/tile-based movement -- but you get used to it within 30 minutes, and the highly polished music helps counterbalance it anyway.

 

Presentation shouldn't really be the battleground over which Super Hydlide's virtues are debated. Looking pretty isn't really central to the game's mission or style -- we're not talking about a run-'n'-gun here, or even a traditional JRPG -- and there are so many other (potentially) controversial aspects to the game that are actually gameplay-relevant.

 

Personally I found Super Hydlide much more compelling than most of the JRPGs I've played recently (almost all of which have been on the Genesis), but also much more frustrating. I appreciated its unorthodox approach, but there's a reason I abandoned it before finishing -- but then again, I am planning on replaying it from the start. Looking forward to it, even.

 

Gotta say, though: Zoom? Really? I borderline-loathed that game, and I'm usually a pretty tolerant guy.