Space Rocks (2600)

[PFL]

Wow. Just wow.

 

I want to say something here but I'm lost for words. I really can't believe how good this looks and how well it plays.

[Atari_Warlord]

This is Awesome! I'd definitely like a cart when you're ready to release this.

[iesposta]

Wow. Just wow.

 

I want to say something here but I'm lost for words. I really can't believe how good this looks and how well it plays.

 

I second that.

Just played Space Rocks then Atari 1979 Asteroids (arcade game), and Space Rocks is already more entertaining! It is like Asteroids with a bit of Asteroids Deluxe.

Just when I think there can't be any more polish added, you surprise us with another cool feature.

If you can get the sound sorted out well (and I'm sure you won't accept anything less than perfection) this is destined to be the finest work of art on the Atari 2600 next to Medieval Mayhem.

• Definitely needs the 'Jaws' dunt, dunt, high/low escalating in speed background stress-inducing drone sound.

• I'm sure you already know that the sounds for the shot rocks are low rumble for large, higher rumble for medium, and highest rumble for small...

• As for the super-annoying trill when the spaceships appear, well personally I could do without that, their fire sound is just as annoying/terrifying, I could take it or leave it.

[Nognir]

As a huge fan of Asteroids I have to say that this is truly awesome! Hope to play this on my real VCS someday

(since I don't have a Harmony Cart right now)

[+SpiceWare]

Thanks all. I just posted a new build with a couple bug fixes in my blog.

 

Sound effects are all still place holders. They'll be one of the last things to be addressed, hopefully in 2-3 weeks.

Edited August 7, 2012 by SpiceWare

[+SpiceWare]

• bug fixes
  
• faster and more colorful explosions
  
• ships now "Warp In"
  
• In alternating 2 player games, if you die when UFO is onscreen the UFO is turned off so the next player doesn't have to wait.
  

ROMs - Harmony or Stella¹

spacerocks20120809_NTSC.bin

spacerocks20120809_PAL.bin

 

 

¹ Requires Stella ver 3.7.1 or later. See first post for instructions on how to reduce flicker.

[DT Kofoed]

LOVE the new warp effect!

[+SpiceWare]

• in 1 and 2 player alternating games you'll always respawn in the center
  
• revised respawn logic to fix some other respawn issues
  
• For 2 player alternating games you can now select from 1 or 2 joysticks
  
• Select-a-color for monochrome games. Select from the 16 base colors for NTSC (13 base colors for PAL).
  

Menu updates

 

orange you glad you can select your own color now?

 

 

ROMs - Harmony or Stella¹

spacerocks20120812_NTSC.bin

spacerocks20120812_PAL.bin

 

¹ Requires Stella ver 3.7.1 or later. See first post for instructions on how to reduce flicker.

[Schizophretard]

That's fun! What other things you plan on adding? Is it possible to add a conservation of matter game variation?

[iesposta]

That's fun! What other things you plan on adding? Is it possible to add a conservation of matter game variation?

What do you mean? That's already there. After you blow up all the rocks, they're still there to shoot and get more points.

[+SpiceWare]

That's fun! What other things you plan on adding? Is it possible to add a conservation of matter game variation?

Thanks! I was planning on additional enemy variations, such as the killer satellites from Asteroid Deluxe and others from Space Duel. However, I ran out of room

 

I normally do more technical info like this in the blog, but will put it here as part of the reply:

 

This is the current free space in the game (covering banks 0-6 of a DPC+ cartridge). The $ is the hex value, followed by the decimal equivalent in ( ).

 

$50 (80) bytes of ARM space left (banks 0-4) Some graphics data also resides here.

$136 (310) bytes of 6507 space left (bank 5)

$13f (319) bytes of Display Data left (bank 6)

 

The 6507 space looks like a lot, but it's not contiguous which makes it harder to use. This is because a number of routines have to be page aligned. A page is 256 bytes of memory - the first 256 bytes are page 0, second 256 bytes are page 1 and so on. Page 0 covers memory locations $0000-$00ff, page 1 covers $0100-01ff, the last page of memory is $ff(255) and covers memory locations $ff00-$ffff. If code branches from one page to another (when the first 2 digits of the memory address, when viewed as a hex value, changes) then it takes extra CPU time which can throw off time critical routines.

 

Bank 6 (Display Data) can't be used for code, just data. I could move some data from the ARM space to the Display Data space to make room for game logic to handle the killer satellites, but then I wouldn't have space to store the graphics for them.

 

The extra space in the Display Data bank might end up holding the data for title screen music. Another option would be to move data from ARM space to Display Data and reuse graphics for other enemy - such as using 2 of the small UFOs to do the pair of enemies from Space Duel that fly across the screen in formation while rapidly shooting between themselves.

Edited August 15, 2012 by SpiceWare

[Schizophretard]

That's fun! What other things you plan on adding? Is it possible to add a conservation of matter game variation?

What do you mean? That's already there. After you blow up all the rocks, they're still there to shoot and get more points.

 

What I mean is maybe have smaller asteroids combine to make bigger asteroids when they collide and/or something like every time you shoot one of the smallest asteroids one appears on the screen. I think something like that would be interesting.

[Schizophretard]

That's fun! What other things you plan on adding? Is it possible to add a conservation of matter game variation?

Thanks! I was planning on additional enemy variations, such as the killer satellites from Asteroid Deluxe and others from Space Duel. However, I ran out of room

 

You're welcome. That sucks. Is there anything that can be subtracted out that isn't absolutely necessary to fit additional enemies?

[+SpiceWare]

What I mean is maybe have smaller asteroids combine to make bigger asteroids when they collide

not possible - asteroids never collide with anything. Instead, other objects collide with the asteroids. What this means is the code is something like this:

 

Move Ships - did ships hit anything?

Move shots - did shots hit anything?

move UFO - did UFO hit anything?

move asteroids

 

There is not a "did asteroids hit anything?" step - there isn't enough CPU time for it. In Frantic any object can hit any other object. The sprite driver supports 24 sprites, but the screen jitters on the higher levels, which means it really can't handle that many objects. Space Rocks handles 51 sprites without any jitter - all because it only checks collisions for at most 9 objects (2 player ships, UFO and 6 shots).

 

and/or something like every time you shoot one of the smallest asteroids one appears on the screen. I think something like that would be interesting.

The game would be way too difficult if a large asteroid appeared every time a small asteroid was destroyed. It would also rapidly max out the sprite driver, it only handles up to 48 asteroids.

 

Is there anything that can be subtracted out that isn't absolutely necessary to fit additional enemies?

Something can always be cut. I'd save a lot of ROM by cutting out this:

 

and replacing it with a Game Select Matrix

[Schizophretard]

I see what you are saying about the asteroids combining.

 

I didn't mean a large asteroid appears every time a small asteroid is destroyed or going over 48 asteroids. I meant a small asteroid appears for every small asteroid destroyed but only with the ability for asteroids to combine because it would eventually be just small asteroids for the rest of the game. Since they can't combine then what I mean is for every 4(?) small asteroids destroyed a new large one appears. What I mean is a variation where the screen never clears because new asteroids form when destroyed instead of them all forming at once after the screen is cleared.

 

Ideally you would want a menu and everything that can possibly be done in the game like more enemies but since you can't have both I would prefer a Game Select Matrix with improved game play over sacrificing game play for a menu. Anyway, could you make more room sacrificing a part of it or something else?

[iesposta]

I spy... You changed START to red!

Thumbs up!

RGB RGB RGB RGB

I love red green blue together (and I love flicker - wonderful games like Space Rocks and Frantic are possible with flicker).

<gotta also love ranting in the morning>

[Brian O]

I continue to be amazed at how folks like SpiceWare, etc. continue to push the boundaries of this system to make the games I can only wish existed when I was a kid...

 

Thankfully they choose to use their powers for good instead of evil.

 

-B

[+SpiceWare]

Since they can't combine then what I mean is for every 4(?) small asteroids destroyed a new large one appears. What I mean is a variation where the screen never clears because new asteroids form when destroyed instead of them all forming at once after the screen is cleared.

Hmm - every 4 means the number of asteroids would never increase, maybe every 3rd asteroid (up to a certain point), then every 4 after that. Could be interesting. What would it be called? Continuous, non-stop, waveless, ... ?

 

I would prefer a Game Select Matrix with improved game play over sacrificing game play for a menu. Anyway, could you make more room sacrificing a part of it or something else?

The big problem with the Game Select Matrix is that manuals get lost. Just check the Asteroids: why 8kb and then such a bad port? topic where you'll see one of the main complaints is "limited motion", which is easily addressed by playing an even game number. The other problem is if it takes a long time to get to a specific game variation then it's not likely to get played. And whoa be it if you overshoot the game number you want to play

Edited August 16, 2012 by SpiceWare

[+SpiceWare]

I spy... You changed START to red!

 

yep - it was difficult to see which monochrome asteroid color you were selecting while the option line was flashing, so I tried a few solutions (you can see that in the comments of this blog entry). When we decided on flashing just the option name (and not it's selected value), Nathan suggested changing the flash to a white gradient. It looked great, but didn't work well with the white START so I changed START to use a red gradient.

Edited August 16, 2012 by SpiceWare

[DT Kofoed]

Wow. I do think this is THE best iteration of Asteroids I have ever played!

[Schizophretard]

Since they can't combine then what I mean is for every 4(?) small asteroids destroyed a new large one appears. What I mean is a variation where the screen never clears because new asteroids form when destroyed instead of them all forming at once after the screen is cleared.

Hmm - every 4 means the number of asteroids would never increase, maybe every 3rd asteroid (up to a certain point), then every 4 after that. Could be interesting. What would it be called? Continuous, non-stop, waveless, ... ?

 

I would prefer a Game Select Matrix with improved game play over sacrificing game play for a menu. Anyway, could you make more room sacrificing a part of it or something else?

The big problem with the Game Select Matrix is that manuals get lost. Just check the Asteroids: why 8kb and then such a bad port? topic where you'll see one of the main complaints is "limited motion", which is easily addressed by playing an even game number. The other problem is if it takes a long time to get to a specific game variation then it's not likely to get played. And whoa be it if you overshoot the game number you want to play

 

I think I'm confused by the numbers of how they split and multiply because I don't understand why the asteroids would never increase. It would always be the same amount either lumped into the big asteroids or slit into the tiny ones but the amount of "matter" on the screen would be mostly constant. The point is you could have the ability to fill the screen with small asteroids but could never clear the screen because after destroying as many small asteroids that make up a big asteroid a new big asteroid will scroll out of the void. Instead of it looking like a new set of asteroids magically appeared it would appear like you are constantly surrounded by asteroids in the asteroid belt. The Asteroids arcade manual calls the "waves" cycles so, regular mode could be cycle mode that you could select to be on or off.

 

It would be cool to have a hunting mode to turn off to prevent the hunting strategy by not allowing saucers if there are a low amount of asteroids. That wouldn't matter if cycle mode is turned off but it would be useful for increased difficulty with cycle mode on.

 

It would also be cool if the style setting didn't just have vector or filled in but also the geometric shapes from Space Duel.

 

I really don't see the problem with the Game Select Matrix. Manuals did get lost but that is probably mostly caused by the boxes not being designed to be storage cases like Sega Genesis cases. That doesn't really matter now because AtariAgers are the type of people that take care of their manuals and boxes. Also, we have the internet now to look it up. The complaints of limited motion are like you said,"easily addressed by playing an even game number." The flaw doesn't seem like it was the Game Select Matrix but because they had the wrong variation as the first game and left a bad first impression. You just got to make sure game one gives the best impression. Taking too long to select a game was already addressed in the original,"To change game numbers quickly, hold down game select and game reset together." I can understand how a menu screen is more convenient and it looks great by the way but I don't see how that out weighs adding more to the game. It just seems like making already limited space for a game even more limited when there is already a select switch to perform the functions of a menu. The VCS was designed to use the Game Select Matrix and the instinctive knowledge of how to use them is stored in AtariAgers' DNA. If I were a programmer, I would focus on getting my game as best as it can be and then what is left over I would use for selecting the variations. If there were enough space left over for a menu then I would consider it a bonus but not absolutely necessary. The game is great as is though. I'm not complaining. I just wouldn't mind using a Game Select Matrix if it made the game even better. I use them all the time. The game does look good though. Really good.

[Omegamatrix]

I really don't see the problem with the Game Select Matrix. Manuals did get lost but that is probably mostly caused by the boxes not being designed to be storage cases like Sega Genesis cases. That doesn't really matter now because AtariAgers are the type of people that take care of their manuals and boxes. Also, we have the internet now to look it up. The complaints of limited motion are like you said,"easily addressed by playing an even game number." The flaw doesn't seem like it was the Game Select Matrix but because they had the wrong variation as the first game and left a bad first impression. You just got to make sure game one gives the best impression. Taking too long to select a game was already addressed in the original,"To change game numbers quickly, hold down game select and game reset together." I can understand how a menu screen is more convenient and it looks great by the way but I don't see how that out weighs adding more to the game. It just seems like making already limited space for a game even more limited when there is already a select switch to perform the functions of a menu. The VCS was designed to use the Game Select Matrix and the instinctive knowledge of how to use them is stored in AtariAgers' DNA. If I were a programmer, I would focus on getting my game as best as it can be and then what is left over I would use for selecting the variations. If there were enough space left over for a menu then I would consider it a bonus but not absolutely necessary. The game is great as is though. I'm not complaining. I just wouldn't mind using a Game Select Matrix if it made the game even better. I use them all the time. The game does look good though. Really good.

 

 

IMHO I would hate to see the title screen dropped. With so many options in Space Rocks I would find using the select switch really annoying, so I would just end up using game 1 all the time. The title screen is slick, and it makes a nice impression starting the game. Quick, and easy to use. I'm the type of person that never opens the manual so having all the features listed there is golden.

 

 

I understand what you are saying about adding more to the game, but to me dropping the title screen is not a fair trade-off. The game is pretty awesome as is, and I would like to see some of the stuff you mentioned added, but not at the expense of the title screen.

 

 

Maybe some more optimizing could be done. Not too sure how much space is required to implement some of these modes.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Omegamatrix

[+SpiceWare]

...I don't understand why the asteroids would never increase. It would always be the same amount either lumped into the big asteroids or slit into the tiny ones but the amount of "matter" on the screen would be mostly constant.

 

Now I'm confused as it looks to me like you do understand why the asteroids would never increase. Part of what makes the game is that each wave has more "matter" than prior waves. If the "matter" never increased, the game wouldn't be challenging.

 

The Asteroids arcade manual calls the "waves" cycles so, regular mode could be cycle mode that you could select to be on or off.

That could work.

 

It would be cool to have a hunting mode to turn off to prevent the hunting strategy by not allowing saucers if there are a low amount of asteroids.

That's why the saucers target asteroids if they aren't targeting the players.

 

It would also be cool if the style setting didn't just have vector or filled in but also the geometric shapes from Space Duel.

Yes, it would be cool. Not possible though - the graphic data for the large asteroids alone takes up over 2K of ROM.

 

If I were a programmer, I would focus on getting my game as best as it can be and then what is left over I would use for selecting the variations.

Well I am a programmer, and one of the ways to make programs the best they can be is to make them easy to use.

• Players - 5 options
  
• Style - 2 options
  
• Color - 17 options
  
• Level - 4 options
  
• Down - 4 options
  
• Friction - 2 options
  
• Bonus - 4 options
  

5*2*17*4*4*2*4 = 21,760^* game variations. Menu system = easy to select your preferred game. Game Select Matrix = extremely difficult to select your preferred game.

 

 

^*Edit: actually 17,680 variations because Level Kids forces Down to be shields.

5*2*17*3*4*2*4 + 5*2*17*1*1*2*4

Edited August 17, 2012 by SpiceWare

[Schizophretard]

Okay, now I see what you are saying with the "matter". Would it work if a big asteroid reappeared when it's matter is destroyed and new matter appears based on shots hit(splitting or destroying) equivalent to those shots in cycle mode? Like it would increase at the same shots hit as cycle mode but based on each large asteroid instead of the whole group so that they would appear one at a time?

 

17,680 variations! LOL! I didn't realize it would be that many. I definitely see your point now. A classic box would be funny. Space Rocks Game Program 17,680 Video Games.

[+SpiceWare]

My thinking is to spawn a new asteroid after every 3rd small one was destroyed, but once a certain number of asteroids had been spawned it would change to after every 4th. I'd have to calculate how many that would be. Of course that depends on there being space for such an option. I have an idea for adding another enemy that will take minimal resources and will do that first.

 

I will admit I was surprised at the number of game variations. I knew it would be more than 100, but was not expecting it to be 5 figures

Edited August 17, 2012 by SpiceWare