Nintendo's Sticking With It

[krisjohn]

@krisjohn: The problem with that statement is that Nintendo just did it.  The Game Boy Color had only recently been released and hadn't even reached the peak of it's potential when they released the GBA.  It was a pre-emptive strike against anyone (Sony or Microsoft) who might be thinking about getting into the hand-held market.  If the GCN2 is fully backwards compatible with the GCN, I don't see how it hurts them to release it as soon as they can.  If they can get the jump on the competition for once, it may just make the difference.

I recall the GBC being a lot older when the GBA's release date was announced than the GC is now. But maybe that's just here.

 

As for a pre-emptive strike, that's a pretty tricky thing to do. If Sony wanted to release a handheld now, they know exactly the specs they need to beat.

 

The handheld market is so absolutely dominated by Nintendo that they can afford to make quite a number of mistakes without really feeling the effects. Have you noticed that new, folding, GBA doesn't suit the existing US e-reader because the card slot is on one end and the comms port is on the other? That's a pretty big flaw. How about the fact that the GBA doesn't have an IR port, despite the Pokemon games that use it? Since it's the only game in town it can get away with this.

 

The GC is not the only game in town. Sega's DC was the most powerful video game console on the market for a very long time (in Internet years) but that didn't help it in the long run.

 

I don't think that Nintendo understands the non-Japanese market anymore (just like Microsoft doesn't understand the Japanese market). Maybe we'll just see the video game market fragment into the three cultural zones that were dominant a while ago: US, Europe and Japan. Each with hardware popular only in those zones, plus a bit of stuff that spans more than one zone.

[cimerians]

Nintendo made the kids toy mistake when the N64 came out. They said it themselves. They wanted to market it to a younger audience (although I can't remember where I read it so many years ago so I can't prove it.)

 

I think they realized the error a bit too late.

 

They also made the mistake to sticking with the cartridge format rather than the then popular CD format the Saturn and Playstation was using.

 

In my mind the N64 was the killer mistake that crippled Nintendo and they have not since been able to recover.

 

I love and respect Nintendo and have a Gamecube, but thats how I see it. I simply made up my mind that whoever has the best and most interesting games is the console I want and so far PS2 and Gamecube are the ones I have bought.

 

I'll have to wait and see what Microsoft does with XBOX 2, that could be the first Microsoft console I buy.

[Starscream]

And as far as considering Nintendo a kids system, Nintendo has always catered to young gamers. It will stick with them. I agree that it's no longer like that, but it is an image that they built for themselves. Remember the no blood Mortal Kombat back in the day? And the Pokemon dominated 64? C'mon, they worked to have a kid friendly image. No one should expect that to disappear with a few adult based games. Problem is now, no one takes Nintendo seriously and that leads to what I said earlier - they need to cater to gamers.

[Gunstar]

Umm...wrong. Nintendo started out as a playing card company, and they STILL are...ever heard of POKE'MON? That's Nintendo (at least they started it, I think possibly Wizards of the Coast handles Poke'mon in the US now, IIRC)! I think they will go the way of Sega too, the holiday season's sales stats showed the Xbox sold 147% more consoles than Nintendo and of course Sony has about 60% of the market share. Sega didn't call it quits right away, they went through several "failed" consoles before they quit, Nintendo will be the same way if they don't turn things around soon. The main problem they have is that they still focus on kids as the main audience and kids don't have all the money, adults do, and adults are buying PS2 and Xbox because of the high percentage of mature themed games.

 

Why is at that people still perceive Nintendo as a little kid company? What about games like Metroid,Conkers Bad Fur Day, Resident Evil, and BMX XXX uncensored? Do you think those games are targeted to kids? Most of the adult themed games for the other systems are available for GameCube too.

 

Yes, they have SOME adult themed games, but this is like 5% of the total. It's the opposite with the other systems...

[NE146]

I do own a ps2 and an Xbox as well and they all get along famously But I'll admit I have a soft spot in my heart for Nintendo. So when there's a game that's available for all 3 consoles, I tend to buy the Gamecube version (like the Lord of the Rings - Two Towers only recently, or Namco Museum).

 

But I do like the Nintendo games more (Zelda, etc.) and I'm 33. soon to be 34! "Adult themed" games sort of turn me off quite honestly. I need more "escape" and less "adult" material which I get plenty enough already every day . My Xbox is mainly used for emulation. And the ps2? It basically only has Activision Classics in it (and occasionally Maximo)

 

Oh and Pokemon started out as a Nintendo published VIDEO game. The cards were the offshoot

[+Sauron]

Some of you people are so full of misinformation that it's not even funny. Let's not forget that the GC is still outselling the XBox in worldwide sales, and isn't far behind it in the US. Not to mention that the GBA is currently schooling all three next gen systems worldwide. Why do you guys think that Nintendo isn't going to stick around? They make more profit from their systems than both Sony and M$. They make quality games. People buy them. So what if they're not drastically outselling their competition? They're doing quite well at the moment, and have been doing so in the video game market MUCH longer than both Sony and M$ combined. Just because you prefer to play crappy games with good graphics doesn't mean the rest of the world does too.

[CPUWIZ]

This is the reality and please don't ask me where I got this information from, I can't tell you.

 

1 PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE OCT'02 4,446,677 $218,415,728

 

2 PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE OCT'01 2,423,886 $120,421,984

 

3 PS2 MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS AUG'02 2,412,996 $118,687,960

 

4 GBA SUPER MARIO ADVANCE 2 NINTENDO OF AMERICA FEB'02 1,578,814 $46,422,132

 

5 PS2 GRAN TURISMO 3:A-SPEC SONY JUL'01 1,536,646 $36,520,380

 

6 PS2 MEDAL HONOR FRONTLINE ELECTRONIC ARTS MAY'02 1,480,273 $73,454,056

 

7 PS2 SPIDER-MAN: THE MOVIE ACTIVISION APR'02 1,193,023 $54,211,052

 

8 PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS SQUARE EA SEP'02 1,190,152 $58,818,480

 

9 XBX HALO MICROSOFT NOV'01 1,062,847 $50,744,204

 

10 GCN SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE NINTENDO OF AMERICA AUG'02 992,703 $49,098,412

 

 

The number before the dollar amount is the amount of units sold through to the customer, not the amount sent to stores.

[JagMX]

I also think Nintendo is more worried about their Japan market - whats nexta friggin yu-gi-oh game? oh yeah everyone will run to buy that one - let me make another point here - if nintendo releases another "party" game or pokemon game or pikmin or whathever the hell it is, mainly aimed at the younger kids , sales for those games wont do as well as they xpect because alot of gamers today are older than 12. not everyone is guna rush to the stores to buy a pokemon game.

 

 

if nintendo was smart, they should pave the way of the GC the way they made the SNES so friggin successful. They arent doing that, and i think its too late even if they tried.

[Punisher5.0]

I also think Nintendo is more worried about their Japan market - whats nexta friggin yu-gi-oh game? oh yeah everyone will run to buy that one  

 

The Yugioh games are already on Sony systems luckily . That game got horrible ratings but it still selling very well. I just hope it doesn't spread to GC and XBOX.

[+Sauron]

Let's think about something, JagHammer....if you ran a business in the US, wouldn't your first concern be the US market? It's the same thing with Nintendo (and Sony, for that matter). And can you blame Nintendo for making games aimed at kids? They sell, and quite well I might add. Hell, neither Sony nor M$ are doing it, so they may as well. Just because they're not leading the market doesn't mean they're doing poorly. But to say that they're ONLY making kids games simply isn't true. They've been pushing for more mature-themed games with the GC. However, to me, I'm secure enough with my masculinity to not have to worry about playing a game with "cutesy" graphics. I play it for how fun it is and how well it plays, not on how it looks or what it tries to be.

[Rhindle The Red]

Have you noticed that new, folding, GBA doesn't suit the existing US e-reader because the card slot is on one end and the comms port is on the other?  That's a pretty big flaw.  How about the fact that the GBA doesn't have an IR port, despite the Pokemon games that use it?  Since it's the only game in town it can get away with this.

 

FYI:

 

1) The comm port on the e-reader is just a thru-port. It doesn't actually do anything. To use your comm port while using the e-reader you just plug into the GBAsp's comm port as usual. There's no problem at all.

 

2) The IR port just never caught on. It's use was very limited and simply wasn't supported, not even by Nintendo. It was an interesting idea, but didn't work out, so it was dumped. The Pokemon games only used it to connect with the Pocket Pikachu virtual pets, as far as I remember, so no big loss. A few other games used it, but not in a very significant way.

 

3) The only game that has a compatibility problem with the GBAsp is Kirby Tilt 'N Tumble. It's special cartridge simply can't work upside-down. Unfortunate, but an acceptable loss, I guess.

 

As for your other points (and those of otherss) I can't really speak to them. You see a company stuck in the past. I see a company sticking to it's goal of quality games for everyone. You see a company unwilling (or unable) to compete in the modern marketplace. I see a company selling by the same standards as they always have and being successful.

 

I'm leaving this thread permanently, now. I can't take any more of these pointless "debates."

 

Nintendo's doing fine. They have no interest in giving up on their own hardware and no reason to do so. All the sales figures in the world won't change the fact that the company is doing fine and has no reason to change anything about it's corporate policies.

 

end of line............

 

You got me that time, Mac.

[krisjohn]

So what if they're not drastically outselling their competition?

 

* Shops depend on moving units, they will stop stocking the GC.

 

* 3rd-party developers want the largest potentitial audience, they will stop developing GC titles

 

* Consumers want a good range of games (or more specifically, a good range of games makes it more likely that any given consumer will find something they like) and will turn away from the GC.

 

Since video game consoles aren't compatible, developers have to choose which one or ones to develop titles for. You've got a fixed development budget that can support two consoles. Hypothetically, total historical sales of three consoles equal 1,000,000 units, 500,000 units and 250,000 units respectively. Your development costs are fixed. Baring any difference in audience that may better match your title, what are you going to develop for? The two that only add up to 750,000 maximum possible sales or the two that add up to 1,500,000 maximum possible sales.

 

(Given of course that you weren't on the team that decided how many 2600 ET cartridges to produce...)

 

[bTW: In my earlier post I used the term "fixed costs" to describe the cost of producing and distributing a single item. On second thought I think that's the wrong use. Development costs are the fixed costs, duplication and shipping depend on sales and are therefore variable costs.]

[MegaManFan]

Say what you will about Cube, but I liked it on the basis of Sunshine alone then found Metroid Prime to restore the faith. Once you add Zelda: Windwaker for the Mario/Metroid/Zelda trifecta there's not a dedicated gamer in the country who SHOULDN'T want this powerful console at $150 or less. Buck the X-Fox.

[joeybastard]

... let me make another point here - if nintendo releases another "party" game or pokemon game or pikmin or whathever the hell it is, mainly aimed at the younger kids , sales for those games wont do as well as they xpect because alot of gamers today are older than 12. not everyone is guna rush to the stores to buy a pokemon game.

 

I'm just shy of 32 and didn't realize the Mario Party games were aimed at kids. They are really high quality, fun video board games and fail to see how they only pertain to kids.

[Cupcakus]

Mario Party games for nintendo systems are the most popular games they sell... and coinsidentally, MP2 and MP3 for the N64 are my favorite games for that system... My wife is a rare video game player... but shes always up for a round of MP.

 

I havn't played MP4 yet... but that is enough for me to want a GCN.

 

And I am not the only one that feels this way... If you can find one, FuncoLand sells loose used MP carts for $35+

 

All other N64 carts are no more than $15. They are extremely popular and really fun.

[z28in82]

While I am a staunch support of my PS2 (say what you will) I grew up as a Nintendo Kid, never owned a Sega System till 2 years ago. I have since gotten all the Sega systems minus the SMS, just because I grew up and saw just how much blind allegiance to a company is stupid.

 

I think the cube is basically geared to younger kids and that is all well and fine cause there will ALWAYS be a market for that, so if big N goes and makes the pre-teen market all their's then cool, cause $ony and M$ will fight for everything else.

 

As for should there be a next system fron N, hell ya they make great games that people wanna play, Mario Party being one of them. So as long as they are making their money, and believe what you want but they are makin money do what you want.

 

As for Sega going strickly 3rd party I was sad to see them go,cause their base systems were average at best but they always had great add-ons that haven't been seen since.

 

As for the cube beingbackwards compatable, nah I don't seen Big N making another system using those stupid lil optics disks. I could be wrong but I think that hasn't helped sales either.

 

I think I covered everything, so you may now begin flammin away

[Paralistalon]

PS2 is such a mainstream game system. When people today talk about video games in general, they say, "I'm gonna play me some PlayStation," instead of the old one, "I'm gonna play me some Nintendo." It's crazy. PS2 has the image thing down pat. I don't know how they accomplished it, but they did. I guess it was due to their success with the PlayStation One, the DVD player/all-in-one entertainment system, and the Sony logo. I honestly think that people feel embarassed to say that they own a Nintendo, that it's more socially acceptable to own a Sony.

 

Nintendo does has some strong franchises. I just hope I won't get burned out eventually. Atleast Animal Crossing and Pikmin presented some new ones.

 

I hope "Link in a Boat" sells GameCubes. I have never been so excited over a game. It's great! I actually feel like camping out in front of a game store or something!

 

You mentioned Nintendo's kiddie image. I'm wondering, do you think it might actually HELP Nintendo? There is so much controversy being stirred up by all these "adult" games, Grand Theft Auto and BMX XXX to name a few. Maybe parents will take Nintendo's innocence as a virtue?

 

Finally, Nintendo is having some problems with developer support. People are only buying the big hits like Mario and Metroid. Developers are betting that they can make more money on a system like PlayStation where their own games are more likely to be purchased. Heh, perhaps Nintendo is making thier games TOO good.

 

...or perhaps developers are making their games too crappy. I for one know that I will buy a game like Cubivore because it's so fresh. (not to mention it's made by Atlus )

[liveinabin]

not everyone is guna rush to the stores to buy a pokemon game.

 

Er...they did. Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire were the highest selling GBA titles in Japan last year - not bad when you consider how late in 2002 they were released.

I'm seeing a lot of talk here about how Nintendo need to lose this kiddy image to really compete. While Sony and M$ are fighting over the teen/adult casual gamer market, Nintendo OWNS the childrens market - the GBA alone would keep them in business. Now think on that, when did YOU really get the bug for gaming - Nintendo are reaching the same audience that Atari reached all those years ago. Sure, the kids will get older and in their difficult teens, they'll move to more 'adult' consoles (for adult read 'cheap sex and violence themed':)) but, as we do with Atari now, they'll return to the pure gaming of their youth - and Nintendo will assuredly be there waiting.

[joeybastard]

I never equate Nintendo with kids games. I equate Nintendo with quality games, as least for my tastes. If a game is totally kickass with impressive gameplay, story and replayability, who cares if the characters are cute cartoony things? I think Nintendo will always be around in one form or another.

[Bivotar]

- if nintendo releases another "party" game or pokemon game or pikmin or whathever the hell it is, mainly aimed at the younger kids , sales for those games wont do as well as they xpect because alot of gamers today are older than 12

 

This has been flogged to death already, but I really don't see Pikmin as a kiddie game, or even aimed at kids. I'm not a kid and it really appealed to me. It had very unique gameplay, which seems to be a rare thing these days.

 

I commend Nintendo for creating games that have universal appeal to younger and older gamers alike. It's great to be able to sit down with my niece and nephew (10 & 6) and play some games with them and actually enjoy it.

[raindog]

You know, people always talk about how Nintendo is after the kids' market and yadda yadda yadda. I think you guys all have it backwards.

 

As a matter of fact, Nintendo is the only one of the big three who ISN'T after the acne-stained teenager market. It's true. What self-respecting 35-year-old guy would actually play Dead Or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball? What kind of grandmother would spend a whole Saturday sitting there chainsmoking and playing Vice City?

 

I was in Toys R Us a couple weeks ago exchanging a duplicate xmas present I'd gotten for someone for GBA Defender (ouch! shame it'd clog the toilet or i'd flush it....) and when I came back around the corner, I found my partner - who is 62 years old and hasn't played a videogame since Kaboom 20 years ago - COMPLETELY engrossed by Mario Sunshine. Neither of us could figure out the stupid controls for the first 5 minutes or so, but he was having a grand old time running around, swimming, and talking to the same egg-shaped guy 10 times in a row.

 

If we ever have a current console in the house, there is zero chance that it will be anything but that one. And considering how much I've spent on GBA games, I'm thinking us old farts with disposable income just might be the other half of Nintendo's audience.

 

Ironically, when we got home that night he said to me, "I really liked that Playstation. I thought all the games on it were dark and violent, but that Mario one was great."

 

Rob