Atari Jaguar vs the Nintendo 64

[+Gemintronic]

What about N64 emulators compiled for x64 excecutables?

 

There's not really a 1-to-1 correllation between anything 64 bit in N64/Jag and a PC. Most N64 emulatiors rely on high level emulation to basically rewrite the code for Intel CPUs.

[LinkoVitch]

We'll never know the true capabilities of the Jag + Jag CD over N64 + N64DD because neither, I think, were ever pushed to the maximum, top, to their absolute limits. When that happens, and only when that happens, can the capabilities of the Jag and N64 be determined.

 

Speaking of Jag: that's a very cool-looking console.

 

Well, as the non-pushed N64 can spank the crap out of the Jag quite easily.. it probably goes without saying that both platforms pushed to their 'limits' will result in the N64 smashing the crap out of Jag

 

One thing I'm sure Jag fans (and everybody else) has had enough of is "Is the Jag really 64 bits?" I know "bitness" is of little relevance. But in all this "bitness" harping, one hardly sees the N64's "64-bits" called into question. I'm not questioning anything, as I'm no technical guru and I leave that for those who are. However, I find... In the Wikipedia N64 Tech Specs article... a couple of interesting lines:

 

 

 

 

So there was hardly anything "64-bit" on the Nintendo 64, if I understand this correctly? Who knew?

 

64 bit operations don't need a 64bit CPU to perform them. Even in emulation.. Look at Jimmy Whites Whirlwind snooker on the ST. It used 64bit precision maths for it's calcs.. the ST is only a 16bit CPU (with a few 32 bit parts in the CPU)..

[+Gemintronic]

I don't care who Jimmy Whites snookered: I'll NEVER stop believing the Neo Geo isn't 24 bits!

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Well, as the non-pushed N64 can spank the crap out of the Jag quite easily.. it probably goes without saying that both platforms pushed to their 'limits' will result in the N64 smashing the crap out of Jag

 

 

64 bit operations don't need a 64bit CPU to perform them. Even in emulation.. Look at Jimmy Whites Whirlwind snooker on the ST. It used 64bit precision maths for it's calcs.. the ST is only a 16bit CPU (with a few 32 bit parts in the CPU)..

Yes, but the performance capabilities of the processor go down the toilet really fast when you start doing bignum math on a low precision processor. For most gaming applications, 32-bit is more than adequate, but think about doing longhand multiplication of 4-digit numbers. In school, you start doing long multiplication and division after you've mastered the times tables. They teach you how to multiply each digit of the top number by each digit of the bottom number, carrying over the tens digit of each multiplicand, and finally summing up all the results at the bottom. So, to perform 64-bitinteger multiplication on a 16-bit CPU, is eqivalent to multiplying two 4-digit numbers longhand. There are 16 unique multiplication operations with numberous additions as well. A 64-bit CPU could take two 64-bit integers on separate input registers and multiply them together, producing a 128-bit product occupying two output registers. That only requires one instruction. The 16-bit processor would require many instructions to perform the same result. Summation is much simpler, hence you often see 16-bit stat and score variables in 8-bit games.

 

I've dabbled in the art of deep-zoom Mandlebrot renders using Fractal Extreme, and I often zoom thousands of bits deep, requiring tens or even hundreds of thousands of iterations per pixel, with each iteration requiring the squaring and summation of big-num integers thousands of bits deep. My Overclocked Octo-Core AMD 4.2Ghz Bulldozer rig can handle millions of such iterations per second, but with HD resolutions of several megapixels each, such images can still take hours to render fully. Fractal Extreme has 32-bit builds, and the speed increase is a little over 4 times faster for the 64-bit version over 32-bit on the same CPU. A 128-bit CPU would yield a similar speed increase, although we likely won't see those for consumer applications for a very, very long time yet.

 

So don't ever say that "bits" don't matter...

[+remowilliams]

 

Well, as the non-pushed N64 can spank the crap out of the Jag quite easily.. it probably goes without saying that both platforms pushed to their 'limits' will result in the N64 smashing the crap out of Jag

 

/thread

[NeoGeo64]

What about the Xbox One VS the Tiger Game.com?

[+Gemintronic]

What about the Xbox One VS the Tiger Game.com?

 

Xbone can't handle the baud rate of Game.com. Case closed.

[high voltage]

N64 hardware texture blur. So choose: blocky or blurry with no more definition either way.

 

Blocky is always better as you know this from 8 bit gaming, but blurry, I thought when I got my N64, WTF, is there something wrong with the cartridge or the telly? Those awful blurry N64 graphics, that degraded the gameplay like 99%.

But what I hated on PSX was pop-up, that so annoyed me.

[NeoGeo64]

I actually preferred blurry over blocky. Perhaps because I first owned and played a N64 before I got a real chance to see the PSX. I always thought "hey wtf, these graphics are so jagged and N64's are smoother because its 64 bit?". Really, the N64 was mostly used in 32bit mode most of the time due to technical reasons beyond my comprehension. So go figure.

[NinSEGA]

So how many games for the Jaguar were like Highlander? As I was glancing over the boxarts for each game on the chronicle, I didn't know that Highlander was actually a game with Final Fantasy VII-like graphics.

Edited November 26, 2013 by NinSEGA

[Bill Loguidice]

So how many games for the Jaguar were like Highlander? As I was glancing over the boxarts for each game on the chronicle, I didn't know that Highlander was actually a game with Final Fantasy VII-like graphics.

 

Don't be deceived. Highlander's polygon count is super low, especially on the characters, and the game in general was beaten with an ugly stick. It could have been done much, much better in a lot of areas.

[Gunstar]

What Bill says is true, but many, like myself, still find it a good game overall. The main thing is control (and getting used to camera angle switches), and it's all about timing since the frame-rate is sluggish, but you can get the timing down and then it is a very fun game when you are doing the killing instead of being killed, and it has beautiful background graphics.

 

Despite the ugly polygon graphics which could have been done better, it's VERY similar to the Alone in the Dark games and if you are a fan of those, you should like Highlander.

 

If you played the Alone in the Dark games on the 3DO, then you will be used to the control and sluggish frame-rate as those games on the 3DO play exactly the same as Highlander on the Jag. Alone in the Dark on the 3DO also has polygons that are equally as ugly as Highlander. I've never tried the PC or other console versions of AITD, so I can't compare to those.

 

Highlander actually stands out compared to the 3DO AITD games as it has much better background graphics.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Gunstar

[Bill Loguidice]

Alone in the Dark is an apt comparison, as that's pretty much what Highlander mimics. It's arguable though which looks better. Regardless, the point is, the way Highlander was implemented, even with a noncompetitive (even for the time) 3D engine, it's shockingly sluggish. It clearly needed a lot more optimizing (or a different implementation).

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Blocky is always better as you know this from 8 bit gaming, but blurry, I thought when I got my N64, WTF, is there something wrong with the cartridge or the telly? Those awful blurry N64 graphics, that degraded the gameplay like 99%.

But what I hated on PSX was pop-up, that so annoyed me.

Nintendo had a reason for the blurry graphics. They made the system look like ass, so two generations later when the Wii came out, games would look crystal clear for the first time and people would flock to download N64 games on Virtual Console. There's just so much potential in the games that was lost due to the lack of 480p upscalers during the mid 90s. It still can kick the Jag's ass though.

[Gunstar]

Alone in the Dark is an apt comparison, as that's pretty much what Highlander mimics. It's arguable though which looks better. Regardless, the point is, the way Highlander was implemented, even with a noncompetitive (even for the time) 3D engine, it's shockingly sluggish. It clearly needed a lot more optimizing (or a different implementation).

 

Well, yes it is arguable as to the quality of the artist(s) work, but Highlander's background graphics are technically superior at, at least, 16-bit 65K color (possibly 24-bit) to 3DO's Alone In The Dark at 8-bit 256 color graphics.

[NeoGeo64]

This may be a little OT, but I'm wondering if the N64 or Jaguar could have handled a port of Nights into Dreams. And if so, how would it have looked and played?

 

Just a thought.

[Austin]

Why is this thread still alive?

(This is a serious question.)

[sh3-rg]

Why is this thread still alive?

 

(This is a serious question.)

'cause trolls gotta troll, yo!

[Andromeda Stardust]

'cause trolls gotta troll, yo!

Honestly, this entire thread is nothing more than Nintendo Fanboys vs Atari Fanboys.

 

And Nintendo just intercepted and ran the ball for a touchdown!

 

Thanksgiving football rocks...

[high voltage]

'cause trolls gotta troll, yo!

Nintendo trolls, gotta love 'em

[AtariLeaf]

Can't we all just agree that they both equally suck?!

 

*ducks and runs*

[Andromeda Stardust]

Can't we all just agree that they both equally suck?!

 

*ducks and runs*

Go play your PS1 with it's failing disc drive and loooong loading times...

[+Gemintronic]

Go play your PS1 with it's failing disc drive and loooong loading times...

 

As long as we're reviving PS1 comparisons lets convince this guy to start producing these:

http://hackaday.com/2013/11/27/the-atari-jaguar-that-should-have-been/

[108 Stars]

As long as we're reviving PS1 comparisons lets convince this guy to start producing these:

He doesn't need convincing, he would actually LIKE to produce them as I understand. But it would be a big project, and would still require original Jags and Jag CDs to be butchered.

[AtariLeaf]

Go play your PS1 with it's failing disc drive and loooong loading times...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpKy11Tf-6o