Mindfield Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Potato Emulation has updated with some excellent new screenshots of progress on Virtual Jaguar -- and what's more, they've posted some WIP videos, too! And they look very tasty, too. Wish they'd hurry up and release it, already! Link appears to be down at the time of this posting, so you might have to try later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Down...but you can still read it with Google's cache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 Good alternative, although there had been an update or two since it had last spidered PE (most notably the one with the WIP movie links) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Looks like video capture from a real Jaguar to me, and without a downloadable version (even a demo if they're planing to charge for it), we cant tell if any of it is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I don't understand the point of their claiming they've got a working emulator. They should either release what they have, or stay silent on it until it's ready to release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Maybe they're trying to sucker someone into dumping the newer games for them? (for 'compatibility testing', yeah right <- that's a great smiley btw, congrats to the board admin for choosing it ) All the Songbird releases...BS...AirCars...all the games that came out after that coding group's (who was it again?) dumping spree in fact. Nasty. And asking for dumps of the CD games shows it off a little more...if they were really interested in emulating the JagCD they'd be using real CDs and buying them themselves at that. Guess everyone coding for the PC these days thinks development is supposed to be free... Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Martens Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I agree with you Stone, it does sound strange ... But anyway, I don't think that Songbird will be affected in a negative way, even if their games got ripped. I mean, those games are only bought by true collectors (cause of the higher price tag) and they aren't satisfied with a rom. I'm not saying that ripping those games is a good thing, on the contrary, it would be very lousy. I just think/and hope that it won't affect the few people still developping for this great system. And even though it isn't as expensive as a Songbird title, take doom. I bought it, and I have the pc version (which is a teeny bit better), so... Just my 2 cents, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PT Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I can confirm that it's real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 There you go. Ville himself confirms it. And I think he'd be in a better position to know... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.skid Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 If this emulator is real, then good work to the developers... BTW, I'm not into emulators, I prefer the 'original thing' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 We are looking for the following undumped jaguar games to increase Virtual Jaguar's compatibility. If you own one or several of them, please contact us. Thank you ! Air Cars Baldies Battlemorph BattleSphere BrainDead 13 Breakout 2000 Highlander Atari Hover Strike: Unconquered Lands Atari Hyper Force Songbird Productions International Sensible Soccer Telegames Iron Soldier II Telegames Myst Atari Myst Demo Atari Primal Rage Time-Warner Interactive Protector Songbird Productions Skycopter Carousel Entertainment Skyhammer Songbird Productions Soccer Kid Songbird Productions Space Ace ReadySoft Space War 2000 Atari Space War 2000 Self-Published Speedster II Carousel Entertainment Towers II Telegames Vid Grid Atari World Tour Racing Telegames Worms Telegames Zero 5 Telegames Thunderbird wrote: I think PT is acting as a deterrent to releasing new titles. The guys who were developing Arachnoids were going to contract ScatoLOGIC to publish their game. Since PT came out they stopped coding to wait and see if piracy runs rampant with the next titles that come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I think the solution to emulators and piracy is easy, logically anyway. Onboard the cartirdge, put a very small, simple bit of logic code, to do a very simple decription on the rom chip's data. That way, any emulator which clones your decription technique can I do believe be taken to court. While the rom images are legal if you own the cartridge, logic systems onboard the cart I think are not allowed to be emulated by law. I could be totally wrong tho, and it depends which countries law your talking about, but it does allow people to make legal chalanges to the emu developers, instead of the users of downloaded roms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 There you go. Ville himself confirms it. And I think he'd be in a better position to know... :-) If he's in a position to know such things, I would hope that he would express to the developers the feeling that it's harmful to the Jaguar community to request dumps of recently released titles. I don't mind the developers trying to emulate our products and whatnot, but they made no attempt to contact ScatoLOGIC to obtain a binary for testing purposes. I'm sure they made no attempt to contact any of the other developers either. This could have been handled differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I do plan, one day, on programing for the Jag, and I will do as many things as I can to make sure any games I write will not work on emulators. I think I'm not alone in this view. Does anyone know the legality of emulating dedicated hardware in games? If Im not mistaken, the reason mame wont emulate pong and other really old games is that the game was just logic circuits, not a processor and rom memory that could be dumped. A simple encription method, which could be cracked quite easily, made onboard the cartridge, I think should be enough to protect the game, since emulating the encription is different from just emulating the cpu's and there is a legal distinction, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I do plan, one day, on programing for the Jag, and I will do as many things as I can to make sure any games I write will not work on emulators. I think I'm not alone in this view. Does anyone know the legality of emulating dedicated hardware in games? If Im not mistaken, the reason mame wont emulate pong and other really old games is that the game was just logic circuits, not a processor and rom memory that could be dumped. A simple encription method, which could be cracked quite easily, made onboard the cartridge, I think should be enough to protect the game, since emulating the encription is different from just emulating the cpu's and there is a legal distinction, I think. I just wonder if the emulator people would take a differetn approach. What if the emulators were made a commercial product. That way they could work with the developers to joint-market the software to the owners. What if I made a new game. I make carts and sell them to Jaguar collectors. The emulator is designed so it cannot run my game unless the user buys an "upgrade". The "Upgrade" is a CD with the appropriate unlocking code AND a binary image of my new game that I provide to the emulator people. The Emulator people get money for their "upgrade" code, and pay a royalty to me for including my binary. It seems to me like all new Jag developers would be able to benefit from this scheme and the emulator people as well. But nobody on the Jag emulation scene seems to be at all interested in the Jaguar scene at all. They seem to be simply outsiders trying to emulate the hardware without any affection for the Jaguar or concern for the Jaguar developers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 T-Bird, Having them burn a cd with an unlock code - how would that stop the - they could just publish the unlock code and bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Well, you could link the unlock code to the serial number of their primary hard disk... Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Well, you could link the unlock code to the serial number of their primary hard disk... Stone We're not talking about cracking "Photoshop 7" or "Office XP" here. Someone could come up with a decent serial number or copy protection scheme. It's a lot of work for hackers to crack these things and due to the small numbers of copies that would be sold I'm sure that none of the hackers would bother cracking the code. Also, if a serial number scheme was used, registered owners would be limited in numbers because the market is small for these things and every owner could be registered in a database. If copies were found floating around then the offending owner would be known and could be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXG/MNX Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Hmm I don't like emulators. I like the real JAG... About this rom dumps, it's something I don't like. The JAG hasn't that many games and I think the roms should not be on the internet for download. Just buy the games at the people that are still selling like: Telegames 16/32systems Goatari Songbird B&C And maybe I even forgot some... TXG/MNX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Hmm I don't like emulators. I like the real JAG... About this rom dumps, it's something I don't like. The JAG hasn't that many games and I think the roms should not be on the internet for download. Just buy the games at the people that are still selling like: Telegames 16/32systems Goatari Songbird B&C And maybe I even forgot some... TXG/MNX You forgot ScatoLOGIC: the Premiere Atari Jaguar developer! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Personally, I don't really think there's a big issue at stake here. The classic gaming community is largely divided into two camps: Those who like emulators, and those who prefer the real thing. Although those who prefer the real thing might also like emulators, they're almost guaranteed to buy the real game for the real unit rather than just use it on an emulator. Those who prefer emulators, on the whole, probably don't have real systems to play games on -- or at least not for those systems they're emulating, and thus aren't likely to buy real games to play on them. (Mind you I've been known to buy PSOne games to play on ePSXe. :-) Exceptions to that rule would be in cases where the emulator can improve upon the original, such as N64 and PSX emulators, which can run the games in high resolutions and apply modern video hardware concepts like FSAA to the games. The Jaguar, being what it is and how it's designed, couldn't benefit from this (except to use DirectX window stretching calls, which is ugly anyway), so that point is moot where the Jag is concerned. Plus, regardless of how good Virtual Jaguar or PT get, let's face it: Battlesphere is a showpiece only a real Jaguar could do justice to. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 To be honest, I think that people who like emulators like playing games for FREE. There aren't people who like emulators and people who likes the real things, there is only people who likes games and people who doesn't! People who like games usually don't mind paying for those games, and can wait if they don't have the money for a particular game, and then they buy it (and they obviously like the real thing); people who doesn't like games (and gaming scene, in general) don't worry of using emulators, downloading ROMs and even buying pirated software, because they don't mind if they harm the gaming market. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 To be honest, I think that people who like emulators like playing games for FREE. There aren't people who like emulators and people who likes the real things, there is only people who likes games and people who doesn't! People who like games usually don't mind paying for those games, and can wait if they don't have the money for a particular game, and then they buy it (and they obviously like the real thing); people who doesn't like games (and gaming scene, in general) don't worry of using emulators, downloading ROMs and even buying pirated software, because they don't mind if they harm the gaming market. P I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say except that you believe there are people who like games enough to pay for them and those that don't like them enough to pay for them use emulators. But, I can tell you that there ARE people who DO NOT like emulators and DO like the real things...I'm one of them! I want to play the games I like on the REAL systems I like, not on a PC! I HATE gaming on the PC and would NEVER play an emulator as a regular gaming format. I have VERY rarely used emulators to get an idea of what a game is like, but that's it. When I play games it strictly on CONSOLES and with the REAL hardware. EMULATION SUCKS!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 It all depends what your playing the games for. Dedicated collectors of retro systems will want the cart's, boxes, manuals, etc. People who just want to play games and dont really have deep feelings about the systems might play on the real thing if they have it, or might play on an emu, if the controls are similar to the real thing. Also since PC games are insubstantial anyway (software on a cd is just data really, and the manuals are very thin often), so I dont think many people care if its pirate / downloaded. I sometimes load up Sonic 1 or 2 on a megadrive emu, since while I do own a megadrive, its all boxed up. However one day I really want to play Zelda64 again, but I cant do that unless I get a real N64, the controler is so unique, even if I could persuade ultrahle to run it nicely, it wouldnt feel right without the original hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Ehm, sorry, guys. I wrote the message in a rush, and I read it only later. Gunstar: I meant that if you don't like the real thing then you don't really like videogames. SO I agree with you. Also I was trying to say that a true gamer would use an emulator to have a sample, and then would buy the game if interested. This is understandable, since it is difficult to find places where you can actually try the classic games you are searching for. On the opposite side, a freeloader wouldn't pay a dime, no matter if he finds the game amusing or not, so he just shouldn't be allowed to use an emulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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