pacgreg Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Just saw a Wizard Halloween/Texas chainsaw massacre cart On ebay. Anyone else ever seen this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yes, I started making them in 2002, do not bid on any of them please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 But cool No shipping abroad though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacgreg Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Oh cool, almost was tempted. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Yes, I started making them in 2002, do not bid on any of them please. Why the veto? The guy states it's a re-release. I guess the "extremely rare" part is shady though. Was this not a bought and paid for item? Not arguing the point. Your word is enough not to bite. I just wondered why. Edited September 6, 2012 by theloon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yes, I started making them in 2002, do not bid on any of them please. Why the veto? The guy states it's a re-release. I guess the "extremely rare" part is shady though. Was this not a bought and paid for item? Not arguing the point. Your word is enough not to bite. I just wondered why. The guy doesn't know what he is talking about, or he is lying. I make these for $30, just like I made the one in the auction. There is no such thing as a re-release with these, I made it up, because I thought it would be a cool way for people to have these games without paying a lot of money (back then, these 2 games were a lot more expensive than they are now). Does that clear it up? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Yes, I started making them in 2002, do not bid on any of them please. Nothing against you CPU, but this is the reason why I never like people creating reprint labels and carts. You try to do something good for the hobby, but unless it is marked accordingly and should be designated rather largely on the cartridge/label as such, something happens where it gets to the wild and most of the world is uninformed as to what these items are. They probably believe this was an original release by Wizard video. The seller should state this was created at such and such date by so and so a person. Problem is that maybe the seller doesn't even know it because it has changed hands several times. There are lots of sellers out there who have no idea about items and can't find any info on the web about said items, so they just put it up and hope for the best. Decided to edit and add something. There is someone on here creating silver labels for their own personal use that never existed, or they are creating modified versions of silver labels that do exist. Again, I'm not against doing this, but from what I see, that person is not marking the items as made by them in 2012. They are putting original 1982-83 copyrights and if I remember correctly, one of their friends believed this was original. If you're going to do something, please mark on the label/cart REPRINT, Made in 2012 by ME, etc. If something happens to this person, they move, go to college, etc. and their relatives decide to have a garage sale with the items, they will be released into the wild most likely to someone with no knowledge and here we'll go again. I still question the Ms. Pac-Man grey label with no Atari 2600 on it. I'm thinking of removing it from the list as a variation since I don't think this was made by Atari but rather by someone just printing their own labels. Phil Edited September 6, 2012 by Philflound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Yes, I started making them in 2002, do not bid on any of them please. Nothing against you CPU, but this is the reason why I never like people creating reprint labels and carts. You try to do something good for the hobby, but unless it is marked accordingly and should be designated rather largely on the cartridge/label as such, something happens where it gets to the wild and most of the world is uninformed as to what these items are. They probably believe this was an original release by Wizard video. The seller should state this was created at such and such date by so and so a person. Problem is that maybe the seller doesn't even know it because it has changed hands several times. There are lots of sellers out there who have no idea about items and can't find any info on the web about said items, so they just put it up and hope for the best. Phil Generally, I would agree, but this NEVER EXISTED. Should the Halo box say "OH WOW, THIS IS NOT REAL!!!!" on the front, no! Should Venture II in the wooden box have a BIG "OH WHHHHHHAAAAMBULANCE, NOT REAL!" on it, no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 BTW, since this was not legally produced and is probably considered a pirate, can Ebay remove his listing as such? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) What's the best solution for crud like this CPUWIZ? I see two solutions: continue to sell these yourself for the low price (thus defeating this eBay buzzard) or put your intentions right on the cart: NOT FOR RESALE. UPDATE: Oops, looks like you aren't up for the last idea. How about selling them again ^_^ UPDATE #2: How about WRITING THE NAMES OF THE OWNER on the cart! A sign of honor for the original purchaser. A sign of shame for the original eBay flipper! Edited September 6, 2012 by theloon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 If you notice, two newbies to Ebay are bidding on this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What's the best solution for crud like this CPUWIZ? I see two solutions: continue to sell these yourself for the low price (thus defeating this eBay buzzard) or put your intentions right on the cart: NOT FOR RESALE. UPDATE: Oops, looks like you aren't up for the last idea. How about selling them again ^_^ Just a few months ago, I sold a whole bunch of them, with box even. XONOX double enders are not exactly easy donors to find, in order to sell them for $30, you need to get them cheap. Look at the clowns currently selling common double enders on ebay, if I bought those, I'd be losing a lot of money. Not so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 BTW, since this was not legally produced and is probably considered a pirate, can Ebay remove his listing as such? Phil Probably, just like Atari could take down your entire label variation website, if they felt like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What's the best solution for crud like this CPUWIZ? I see two solutions: continue to sell these yourself for the low price (thus defeating this eBay buzzard) or put your intentions right on the cart: NOT FOR RESALE. UPDATE: Oops, looks like you aren't up for the last idea. How about selling them again ^_^ Just a few months ago, I sold a whole bunch of them, with box even. XONOX double enders are not exactly easy donors to find, in order to sell them for $30, you need to get them cheap. Look at the clowns currently selling common double enders on ebay, if I bought those, I'd be losing a lot of money. Not so much fun. If you ever plan on making more double enders I can start scrounging. You know what item I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What's the best solution for crud like this CPUWIZ? I see two solutions: continue to sell these yourself for the low price (thus defeating this eBay buzzard) or put your intentions right on the cart: NOT FOR RESALE. UPDATE: Oops, looks like you aren't up for the last idea. How about selling them again ^_^ Just a few months ago, I sold a whole bunch of them, with box even. XONOX double enders are not exactly easy donors to find, in order to sell them for $30, you need to get them cheap. Look at the clowns currently selling common double enders on ebay, if I bought those, I'd be losing a lot of money. Not so much fun. If you ever plan on making more double enders I can start scrounging. You know what item I want I have enough of the surface mount LED's and DB9's to make 8 more. Just ordered 100 more DB9 connectors from China. Need to find a decent deal on more of these LED's and serial EEPROM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 BTW, since this was not legally produced and is probably considered a pirate, can Ebay remove his listing as such? Phil Probably, just like Atari could take down your entire label variation website, if they felt like it. Not sure companies care about sites like mine unless I'm actually making money off of it. Nothing on my site is for sale. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwackery Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Not sure companies care about sites like mine unless I'm actually making money off of it. Nothing on my site is for sale. Phil AFAIK, even though you scanned them, those images are still the copyrighted property of Atari and other companies (such as they may or may not be now), but it is up to them to enforce their ownership rights. You might be able to claim fair use for educational purposes, but it would likely be a stretch. Cebus might be able to shed more light on this from a legal perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Every item on Ebay is scanned or photographed and is for sale and no one says anything about it. If I scan a game, box and instructions and sell it on a personal site, there is no copyright infringement. Don't think any of this is wrong. Making pirated software IS a crime and has been since I remember being a teenager back in the days of the commodore 64. Like I said, I don't care what people do if they make labels for their carts or burn carts themselves. I just said they should mark it as such so when, and notice I said WHEN these items reach the outside world, it is clear that these were not originally made by the company back in the 1970s or 1980s when the originals were released. I can't tell you how many seasoned collectors out there discover that they didn't KNOW about some variation. When I first started to collect games back in 1995, and came across the list of games, I was super surprised to find out that there were hundreds of games out there. The majority of items are known now because of the internet and doing sites that have scans of games like AA, Atarimania, Atariguide, and my own. But there are tons of people on Ebay who are oblivious to the world of vintage collecting and don't know these sites exist. I just ask that we keep everyone honest. For example, when you purchase any types of Peanuts items with Charlie Brown or Snoopy, etc., 90% of the items do NOT have the date of release on them. The copyright dates on these items are the dates of that particular version of the character. So Charlie Brown looking scrunched down with a red shirt may be dated 1958. I may come across a plastic mug with that likeness of him on it made in 1974. The date on the mug says 1958. So your average person will put 1958 as the date this item was created, not knowing about how the copyright dates work. Disney for the most part does not put dates at all on their products. It's extremely difficult to date Disney unless you either bought it when it originally came out or are into the collecting aspect and are knowledgeable about it. I've been buying and selling collectibles for almost 30 years now and have put on tens of thousands of items between my own stuff and my friends. I owned a store for 3 1/2 years and ran my friend's for 4 years after that. I know what I'm doing and I'm confused with things all the time because there is so much to know. The internet does great things to help clarify when items were created and other information about it. I just would like the Atari community to remain honest and don't want to piss off any new collectors. Like I mentioned earlier, the 2 people bidding on this double ender are newbies. One has 0 fb, the other has 1. If they find out they got "ripped off" they may start having a hatred for our community. If we can somehow inform these people, maybe we can incorporate them into starting a collection and build our collector base. Ebay sucks that you cannot contact bidders any longer so we can't even give them information about what they are bidding on. So unless the seller is honest about it and decides to add to the description or allow questions to be posted and answered, these people will remain naive to the fact they are bidding on something made in the past 10 years. If they do know and choose to continue to bid, at least they are doing so with full knowledge. Sorry, I'm ranting so much. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari181 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 These are not repros of actual releases. Collectors need to do due diligence. A simple google search before buying will most likely lead them here. They would then know its not some undiscovered super rare cart. I have to agree with CPU on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Well, the original has been pulled it seems, but another person has one up for even more money. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 No time to post a dissertation, but suffice it to say that legally, sure, Atari could shut down just about anybody using a photograph of their copyrighted artwork. Taking a photograph of a copyrighted work has been shown to amount to reproducing the work. Of course, this is where the distinction between legal decisions and business decisions come into play -- Atari "could" pursue legal avenues in these instances, but they will ultimately choose not to because it only causes more business problems for them than it solves, not to mention there wouldn't really be much recouped losses in the form of legal fees by simply shutting down websites. This is why we saw those C&Ds earlier without much more than smoke and mirrors behind them -- Atari has someone in their legal department essentially on retainer, so might as well have them do SOMETHING with their salary, but it's likely none of those cases would have turned into anything more. The legal side may say it's a big deal, but the business side says it's not worth it, and 99% of the time the business side wins. Unless you're Apple vs. Samsung, that is. From a glance, I'd say Phil's site would likely be considered a fair use for educational purposes, provided the judge in question was somewhat nice about interpretations. Phil's site doesn't have any ads or anything on it, so he's not even indirectly generating any revenue at all from the copyright material, and it can pretty easily be argued that the intent of his site is to inform viewers as opposed to anything else. It would be up to the dude in the robe, of course, but I'd honestly say there's a pretty good argument for Phil's site being fair use. The funny thing that Phil mentions about eBay sales and the like -- photographing an item for sale has generally been considered something to not require prior authorization. Again, depends on the dude in the robe, but generally, it's considered okay to take a photograph of a particular item -- for example, an Atari 2600 box -- explicitly for the purpose of selling that particular item, since it would be unreasonable to prevent sales of items in this way. The best rule of thumb when business law is concerned is the "reasonable person" standard, and I like to think it somewhat applies to copyright -- if we couldn't take pictures of items in order to sell them, it's not too far of a leap to say that we couldn't really sell anything at all, since the photograph is "sort of" tied into the right of first sale in the right to resell. "Sort of" in this case meaning, again, it all depends on the dude in the robe! For the most part, just about everything we do on AtariAge is going to fall into that "technically infringing but a poor business decision to pursue" crevasse, which is why we don't really ever see anyone making repros or the like suddenly "disappear". Of course, "doesn't care" doesn't make it right, but nonetheless, without that "doesn't care" mentality, we wouldn't have a LOT of stuff we have available now, so I like to think it's part of the "better good" style breaches of ethics. For a large amount of information, this site is good about photos and copyright: http://www.danheller.com/model-release-copyrights.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAMBULANCE - lol Wuzard - lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwackery Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Thank you, Cebus, for taking the time to write that up. You succinctly provided an understanding of many of the issues related to the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Well, standard disclaimer of IANAL applies, of course, and a lot of it is subjective and depends on where one sits on the legal fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Some idiot is about to be taken for $100 with 25 minutes to go. Edited September 10, 2012 by Philflound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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