Lynx to VGA

[candle]

ok people

this is high time for a proper prototype

what i want from you is feature list that would be nice to have

stay reasonable, as this always adds costs, and please make some kind of priority over them

as far i've seen:

* replaced lcd (has to be, really)

* vga out (or RGB out? or S-VIdeo/Component?)

* joystick port (in what standard? sega? snes? 7800? (standard atari joystick is out, since it has only one button)

 

split design, with just one "expansion header" sticking out, and flat cable + breakout board with all nessesary connectors, or everything included on single board?

for split design there is ease of installation, and you could fit more connectors than in single board design, but then again you'll end up with something dangling off your console

you may consider this as "poor man's docking station"

 

i'm open for discussion right now, but when i start drawing, it will be fixed

 

ps. rotating the display on vga/tv out is relativly easy

[Atariboy]

I'd vote for component output. It has high video quality and offers the advantage of being a widely available connection method on both modern standard definition CRT's and today's HD displays. RGB isn't an easy option for many here in North America, S-Video is extinct on new televisions, and VGA seems to be not far behind in disappearing.

 

With HDMI becoming so universal, the days of component connections on new tv's are also numbered. But it remains a widely available option on new tv's for now and also supports many of the CRT's that classic gamers like to play older games on. And there are adapters out there that can convert a component signal to HDMI when that need arises (As there are for VGA to HDMI, but unlike with component I've never heard of a SD CRT that had a VGA input and many HDTV's, particularly more recent models, lack a VGA input).

 

I imagine that a Genesis controller port would be the ideal choice. The controller ports possibly can be purchased new and there is a wide range of quality controllers that are liked by the classic gaming community available for the platform. And many of us will already have several options in our collections and for those that don't, used controllers are extremely cheap.

 

ps. rotating the display on vga/tv out is relativly easy

 

If rotating the display is an easy option to provide, I hope you do it. Particularly with flash cartridges, maybe we'll see some of the programming talent remapping the controls in games like Raiden to take advantage of it when played on a tv.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Atariboy

[Guitari]

I'd like to see RGB out as first choice (scart/ s video?), and VGA as second choice. One of my flat-screen TVs does not have Component and it is brand new and the other flat-screen TV doesn't have VGA.

 

I'd favour an option that doesn't involve hacking too much away from the body of the lynx.

 

When considering the location for an additional output from the lynx, please bear in mind that the Naki power bak (battery pack) slides onto the back of the lynx.

 

Jaguar joypad connetion? Sort of meakes sense to keep it all Atari and I don't mind the jaguar joypad design!

 

Many thanks.

[GadgetUK]

I am amazed at how accommodating you can be to all these requests!!

 

I think composite is the most widely supported. Regards joystick, the best type imo is the most widely available and cheapest - ive got no idea which of the atari controllers youve mentioned are easily available or cheap etc? Last thing I want personally is to have to pay £30 for a jaguar controller with all its buttons etc when there might be a cheaper 2 button atari controller thats easier to find.

 

Personally I would have the PCB inside the Lynx connect to some kind of slim socket that we could mount somewhere on the case edge, then I guess we could plug in the 2 cables (vid + stick) into that connector.

 

So you might have

 

Lynx with a slim connector - something like iphone connector. And 2 short wires that go into 1 male plug, which connects to the slim lynx connector. If we try and mount composite sockets and stick port on the lynx it would be hard I think. Alternatively they could be 2 PCBs, with seperate slim connectors for each, each with its own cable and socket.

 

I guess we would need a button to rotate the screen when outputting portrait mode via tv out? Or would it auto rotate tv out but keep lcd the correct way so we can still turn the lynx on its side?

 

Regards priority:-

 

1) LCD replacement would be great,

2) TV out - nice to have, personally not bothered if we dont get it.

3) Joypad in - nice to have, probably wont use it, even if we get option 2. Why use a gamepad when you can use the lynx.

Edited March 27, 2013 by GadgetUK

[Atariboy]

I think composite is the most widely supported.

 

I don't know what the situation is like in Europe (European RGB and SCART are non options for most of us over here for instance), but composite is certainly the most widely supported over here. But it's also the worst quality picture wise. It can look pretty bad especially when playing on a HDTV.

 

Regards joystick, the best type imo is the most widely available and cheapest - ive got no idea which of the atari controllers youve mentioned are easily available or cheap etc?

 

It would need two buttons so that rules out most of the common and well liked Atari controllers. There are Atari 7800 options, but neither of the official options are very well liked by many 7800 owners. Heck, many AtariAge users use things like converted NES controllers these days on their 7800, Sega Genesis controllers when just 1 button is needed, etc.

 

Why use a gamepad when you can use the lynx.

 

Comfort

 

Why use the bulky Lynx if you don't to when outputting your game to a tv?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Atariboy

[Guitari]

I'd like to ask if Option 1, 2, pause and reset would be included on the joypad? Could be helpful but problematic to build.

 

Obviously there's no need for a flip function unless you want to play standing up-side-down. Or a backlight option to switch the TV off!

 

So...that's also why I was thinking about the jagpad as there's plenty of buttons available. Just reasoned that most lynx owners would have a jag too.. I may be wrong..

[Emehr]

My wish list:

* component/VGA out (is it difficult to have both?)

* Sega Genesis controller compatibility

* Remapping the D-pad when in vertical mode (as mentioned)

 

If you remap the D-pad in vertical mode, maybe it should be a separate switch (as opposed to reading the state of the Lynx's display and switching automatically). That way, someone can still hold the Lynx vertically even if they are playing on the TV set.

 

I would love to build a mini "Lynx Arcade" or have the option of plugging in a Sega Arcade Stick and hooking my Lynx to the television.

 

If anything, just having any form of video-out is really cool to have. Thanks for all of the effort you've put into this. It's really appreciated. Thanks also for taking requests! The LCD swap is a really cool option too.

 

[GadgetUK]

My wish list:

* component/VGA out (is it difficult to have both?)

* Sega Genesis controller compatibility

* Remapping the D-pad when in vertical mode (as mentioned)

 

If you remap the D-pad in vertical mode, maybe it should be a separate switch (as opposed to reading the state of the Lynx's display and switching automatically). That way, someone can still hold the Lynx vertically even if they are playing on the TV set.

 

I would love to build a mini "Lynx Arcade" or have the option of plugging in a Sega Arcade Stick and hooking my Lynx to the television.

 

If anything, just having any form of video-out is really cool to have. Thanks for all of the effort you've put into this. It's really appreciated. Thanks also for taking requests! The LCD swap is a really cool option too.

 

 

I agree it would be nice to have vga and composite. Also a good idea to 'rotate' directional controls when screen is portrait - nice to have.

 

Reading this reply and guitaris above (regards option buttons), I think genesis controller is best bet - or (added cost) USB generic controller.

[Marc Oberhäuser]

My wishlist

 

- replaced LCD

- screen rotation option

- RGB/Scart out

- joystick port Sega Mega Drive

Edited March 27, 2013 by Marc Oberhäuser

[Guitari]

USB generic sounds good - a nice small hole to make! but somehow prefer the retro look.

 

Didn't someone say composite is not the best quailty? Must admit I always thought RGB was superior.

[GadgetUK]

Yes, composite isnt best quality, europeans would prefer RGB via Scart but US dont really have Scart support on their TVs. Composite is OK if the signal is clean, and lots of TVs support it. If we had VGA as well that allows VGA to HDMI adaptors etc, but I think its going to be costly and complex having multiple outputs. Ive got no idea whether composite is the easiest or cheapest, but certainly the most supported.

[candle]

it will be vga/rgb/component switchable

i might add composite output if i'll find the time to write an ecoder

so move on, this part is closed

now, controller

why sega?

snes are cheap, have lots of buttons (and propertiary connector) and i already have them

sorry guys, but i'm not sega guy, so i don't know nothing about them really - not that i can't learn, i could, but i'll have to buy damned thing first

usb is also out of question - i don't want to implement full usb stack, so don't get too wild - this is fun project for a weekend, not two years saga

[the.golden.ax]

It seems to me that there will be a certain demographic that will want to consolize a Lynx for use with Television and Monitor, and a certain demographic that will want to simply upgrade the screen. Personally I would like to do both but not on the same unit. This said, if it is more cost effective to design a board that does it all, I'd hope that you keep in mind the ability to self contain the upgrade without shell modification on the exterior should one want to simply have a portable Lynx that doesn't do anything more than it used to, but with better video quality.

 

There are many adapters available from Tokotek that allow you to use this or that controller on this or that platform. If you make the controller portion compatible with something that is easy to get an adapter for, people can chose their favorite controller.

[Guitari]

 

snes are cheap, have lots of buttons (and propertiary connector) and i already have them

sorry guys, but i'm not sega guy, so i don't know nothing about them really - not that i can't learn, i could, but i'll have to buy damned thing first

usb is also out of question - i don't want to implement full usb stack, so don't get too wild - this is fun project for a weekend, not two years saga

 

Snes would feel good. But the connector is huge.

[GadgetUK]

i don't want to implement full usb stack, so don't get too wild - this is fun project for a weekend, not two years saga

Hahahaha, I knew you would love my USB suggestion )

 

SNES sounds fine with me, and rgb and vga is great. People can always adapt from those outputs and inputs anyway so its all cool with me. I will more than happy with just an LCD, the other things are gravy

[Guitari]

Man the most exciting thing for me is the TV output. Plus I'm stoked about the LCD just as I have a unit that's got a dodgy ribbon connection!

 

I guess we're all different

[Guitari]

If a few miles over the North Sea don't disqualify the offer you stand corrected. I know a guy from the German neXGam forum who offered the mod and probably still does, and my friend Tiido from Estonia offered it too as well as cool other mods like OC. These are just the ones I know and trust, there should be plenty more around Europe.

 

EDIT: On topic:

Great progress. I don't care for the VGA output so much, but the crisp image of the new LCD is wonderful. Looking forward very much to this, too bad I only have a Lynx 1, I will have to get a model II now.^^

 

thanks 108 stars. It's funny, I spent a few years with 'nomad mod' on my to do list. Then one day I realised I just didn't care any more. Fact is most Nomads have this blue screen problem AFAIK. And I even learnt to live with the delayed illumination. But now I know there's a Euro solution, things could be different. But I guess I was never keen on the tapping into the AV out aspect. Call me fussy but I even saw a youtube vid once where each time the Nomad was booted up the letters 'AV' would appear in the corner of the screen and I didn't like the look of that.

 

I contacted Tiido once and he agreed to do the TV Game Gear mod for me. But by the time I got enough cash together he stopped doing the mod. Plus with the GG mod I really wanted to be able to use a MegaDrive controller rather than the Master System one in order to use the start feature of the GG, whereas MS is only 2-button (offered by Tiido). I know the 3 button controller mod is possible as I've seen a youtube vid of a guy in Japan who's done it.

 

Candle, after we're done with the lynx, perhaps a screen replacment/tv mod for the Game Gear would give a good user-base rather than the nomad.

The GG's screen could certainly be better - just like the Majesco version of the GG is.

 

I digress. Certainly will give the Nomad mod more thought.

[candle]

let me make something superclear

LCD upgrade is A MUST

otherwise there won't be any space left for anything

it will mount on exacly the same holes that original lcd sits, and there will be and IDC16 (20) header that you may, or may not cut the hole for just above LINK port

then you'll have ribbon cable that will connect to some kind of box with video out port and controller port

this makes whole mod as easy to make as possible

there might be one wire to solder but nothing more

rest will connect with standard FFC cables

a pass-through port for mylar keyboard, and 1:1 cable for the display

[the.golden.ax]

let me make something superclear

LCD upgrade is A MUST

otherwise there won't be any space left for anything

it will mount on exacly the same holes that original lcd sits, and there will be and IDC16 (20) header that you may, or may not cut the hole for just above LINK port

then you'll have ribbon cable that will connect to some kind of box with video out port and controller port

this makes whole mod as easy to make as possible

there might be one wire to solder but nothing more

rest will connect with standard FFC cables

a pass-through port for mylar keyboard, and 1:1 cable for the display

 

Sounds perfect. I like the idea of the Lynx having a "docking" station

[vince]

Yes, composite isnt best quality, europeans would prefer RGB via Scart but US dont really have Scart support on their TVs. Composite is OK if the signal is clean, and lots of TVs support it. If we had VGA as well that allows VGA to HDMI adaptors etc, but I think its going to be costly and complex having multiple outputs. Ive got no idea whether composite is the easiest or cheapest, but certainly the most supported.

Perhaps, but... we only speak of lynx, not a 4K video...

[GadgetUK]

Perhaps, but... we only speak of lynx, not a 4K video...

 

Exactly, which is why i am not really bothered if its VGA, composite, or RGB output - it's 160 x 102 at the end of the day, it doesnt appeal to me at all to connect such a low res display to my 42" TV

[GadgetUK]

thanks 108 stars. It's funny, I spent a few years with 'nomad mod' on my to do list. Then one day I realised I just didn't care any more. Fact is most Nomads have this blue screen problem AFAIK. And I even learnt to live with the delayed illumination. But now I know there's a Euro solution, things could be different. But I guess I was never keen on the tapping into the AV out aspect. Call me fussy but I even saw a youtube vid once where each time the Nomad was booted up the letters 'AV' would appear in the corner of the screen and I didn't like the look of that.

 

I contacted Tiido once and he agreed to do the TV Game Gear mod for me. But by the time I got enough cash together he stopped doing the mod. Plus with the GG mod I really wanted to be able to use a MegaDrive controller rather than the Master System one in order to use the start feature of the GG, whereas MS is only 2-button (offered by Tiido). I know the 3 button controller mod is possible as I've seen a youtube vid of a guy in Japan who's done it.

 

Candle, after we're done with the lynx, perhaps a screen replacment/tv mod for the Game Gear would give a good user-base rather than the nomad.

The GG's screen could certainly be better - just like the Majesco version of the GG is.

 

I digress. Certainly will give the Nomad mod more thought.

 

I agree, I would LOVE the mod for GameGear as well lol - lets not scare Candle off until he's got the Lynx mods done lol, I think we've already stressed him out today talking about USB, MegaDrive controllers, WiFi modules etc.

[Guitari]

let me make something superclear

LCD upgrade is A MUST

otherwise there won't be any space left for anything

it will mount on exacly the same holes that original lcd sits, and there will be and IDC16 (20) header that you may, or may not cut the hole for just above LINK port

then you'll have ribbon cable that will connect to some kind of box with video out port and controller port

this makes whole mod as easy to make as possible

there might be one wire to solder but nothing more

rest will connect with standard FFC cables

a pass-through port for mylar keyboard, and 1:1 cable for the display

 

I understand perfectly.

 

And I'm getting quite excited about it!

 

I'm all for the SNES controller then, if that's the best for you candle.

 

Wow it's been a busy day on this thread today!

[Guitari]

I agree, I would LOVE the mod for GameGear as well lol - lets not scare Candle off until he's got the Lynx mods done lol, I think we've already stressed him out today talking about USB, MegaDrive controllers, WiFi modules etc.

 

I'm sure between us we can provide as much info as Candle will ever need on the GG if he's interested in working on it - at the appropriate time.

 

Time for Candle get a cup of tea, relax, and then work his magic!

[candle]

seems we're looking for 240pln for a prototype, and this excluding "docking station"

there are almost no parts inside "docking station" but the connectors, unfortunatly, connectors do take space making PCB big

nice thing would be to have it cased, or at least nice if it would be possible to case it (some devices, belive or not, are built so they can't be cased, especially particular disk interfaces i have in mind)

 

anyways

this is rough estimate

most expensive part is LCD module, and this is funny thing

on ebay, you have lcd modules for 16usd, and park assist monitors for 16.5usd...

on the alibaba service, prices start from $2 and MOQ at 5pcs, but i haven't used alibaba ever in my entire life so i don't know what to expect

 

due to pin saving, i'll have to make LCD inactive if TV/VGA output is used

shouldn't be an issue though