New to the Atari 16bit line

[Kodai]

Hails to one and all,

 

I'm a collector of retro computer and video game hardware and have been creeping through these AA forums for years now. I was luck as a kid as I had almost all the major computers from the late 70's through the mid 80's that were released in N. America. Many have been lost in moves and what not over the past couple of decades. But I never stopped adding to my collections. The one major computer system I never had back in the day was the ST line. So since I got into doing retro MIDI stuff the past half year, I started looking into the ST line. Got my first one off ebay a few weeks ago and it was a 520 STm and came with an SM124 mono monitor, RF modulator line, and mouse (no floppy drive though). The system simply didnt work. I checked the PSU (with a Fluke 87v with a still valid cal) and its as strong as an ox. I reseated all the socketed chips, and still no go. Then tried the final bit of resoldering most of the contact points on the board. Still dead. No obvious signs of trouble of course, so something is just flat out dead in the unit. Chalk it up to profits and losses toss it in the spare parts closet.

 

So back I go to ebay, to look for another 520. I simply didnt want to deal with the 1040 because of the size, weight, and built in FD. I'd rather go external and keep it small so I can make it fit into limited space. I figured that I can always upgrade the ram to 1MB by hand and pretty much have a 1040 without the lame DB9 port placement ( and no need to buy DB9 extensions to deal with that lame placement). So I find another 520STm. Its listed as having RCA ports for audio and an svideo port. Of course I think that the seller is trying to say that the RCA based RF out is for audio and that the full size DIN jack is an svideo port. Low and behold, I get the unit (this one works by the way) and it really does have left and right RCA jacks and an svideo port. So I dont have any svideo cables (or I should say that I cant find any) to try it out. I still have to get a 314 floppy drive and I'm waiting for the new ultrasatan but it works like a charm on the SM124. I'll get an svideo cable to test the port this weekend. It also came with a mouse so now I have two. It has no yellow on the case, keys or mouse (thought the mose cable has yellowed a bit). It really looks brand new and the svideo port and RCA jacks were placed very well. I asked the seller about the mod and he said he bought it that way and used it on his TV but just didnt have room for it anymore.

 

So first thing I do is rip it apart to inspect the mod. I'm really impressed at whoever figured this thing out. Clearly it was not a simple solution for them. It has a couple filter caps and resistors inline with the different mod connections and the audio is leached off the monitor port. I love the fact the the modder just tossed out the worthless RF shield, lol. But on the whole it is very cleanly done with good solder work, and every thing just looks good. I cant seem to find much info about a mod like this on the ST line. I see a thread or two about why other methods are better, but that seems to say do go through all the trouble of this sort of mod. Well I dont have to worry about that as its already a done deal. I'm just curious as to how much is really know about this sort of mod and what noise issues (audio and video) I may need to keep a watch for.

 

Now seeing that mod makes me want to do a few other things to it as well. I guess I'm going try the 1MB thing, but I was wondering if timing is an issue. Should I try and use 60ns or 70ns dram's for the full 1mb or just stick on 512k of the stock 150ns to the current chips? Also is there any issues (or benefits) with ripping out the 68k and putting in a socket and 68010? Why stop with that? Are there any other popular mods for the 520STm?

 

***EDIT***

 

Also what are the advantages to the different TOS roms? I cant seem to find a clear picture on any of the forums about what works best with this or that and is it worth it. Any info on that would be nice as well.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Kodai

[tjlazer]

Do you have the instructions on the 1Mb mod? Some were searching for them for the 520ST.

 

TOS 1.4 will be the best and highest you can do without hardware hacks. B&C computer visions sells the rom chips. You can go with 2 or 6 chip depending a on what you have now and or changing jumpers.

[Kodai]

I will look into the TOS 1.4 roms then. As far as the 1MB goes, I have a number of pics and basic info on the mod and I think I might be able to piece the puzzle together. Something I will look into over the next month or so, because I dont want to kill a bunch of old dram's that are getting harder to find now days.

[Charlie_]

The DB9 extensions are really a non issue. All you need is a male and female IDC connectors and a strip of ribbon cable.

Thanks to Amiman99. Since I brought a ST mouse from him with an extension like this, I've been using them for everything.

They really take the wear and tear off the 9 pin ports at the console/computer.

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160765250253

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160765249329

[ParanoidLittleMan]

 

...

So back I go to ebay, to look for another 520. I simply didnt want to deal with the 1040 because of the size, weight, and built in FD. I'd rather go external and keep it small so I can make it fit into limited space. I figured that I can always upgrade the ram to 1MB by hand and pretty much have a 1040 without the lame DB9 port placement ( and no need to buy DB9 extensions to deal with that lame placement).

....

Now seeing that mod makes me want to do a few other things to it as well. I guess I'm going try the 1MB thing, but I was wondering if timing is an issue. Should I try and use 60ns or 70ns dram's for the full 1mb or just stick on 512k of the stock 150ns to the current chips? Also is there any issues (or benefits) with ripping out the 68k and putting in a socket and 68010? Why stop with that? Are there any other popular mods for the 520STm?...

 

Also what are the advantages to the different TOS roms? I cant seem to find a clear picture on any of the forums about what works best with this or that and is it worth it. Any info on that would be nice as well.

 

I liked my 520STFM in past, because it was much better for HW upgrades, hacks than 1040. I did: TOS upgrade to 2.06, together with internal IDE adapter, floppy HD module, overscan switch, 2.5 MB upgrade , + some other smaller things.

 

Considering RAM upgrade: I would not recommend piggy back. Especially if you have untested chips. Better is to make PCB for it - there is always place for board, and you can do solderings much cleaner. I have still my 2 2MB RAM upgrade boards, taken out from dead 520 machines. Even would sell away - but sending to US for instance would cost too much, for sure. You don't need faster than 150nS. Despite what some lion-named compulsive Atari user says. It will make nothing faster or more reliable.

 

68010 instead 68000 ? Not good idea. You will benefit almost nothing, just have compatibility problems with demos and similar. And only TOS 2.06 supports 68010.

 

If you have TOS 1.00, you need to upgrade it for sure (slow, unreliable, not for hard disks). TOS 1.02 is better, but still not good enough for hard disks. It was discussed zillion times. You need to google little around and search for threads.

TOS 1.04 is reasonably good, and last what you can fit without additional logic circuit. And for gaming much better than 2.06 - what has problems with many games. Although ... there are hard disk adapted games, which usually work well on TOS 2.06 . DIscussed little less than zillion times

 

What upgrades are worth: depending on what you plan to do with machine. For gaming, you need 1MB RAM mostly. UltraSatan is welcome too (not upgrade, but likes TOS 1.04). TOS switch is simple and useful thing - but you need EPROM programmer to burn multiple TOS versions in EPROMs, or better Flash EPROMs.

 

Some DIY projects here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/

[Kodai]

Alright, so I ended up getting some extra bits this weekend. I've been trying to find an SF314 drive, but they are as rare as hens teeth. I thought I'd check out craigs list and found a local guy selling his old 1040STf setup that he has had since '86-'87. He said the computer started giving him little bombs across the screen last year and he put it away. He took it out of storage a few weeks ago and it wont even boot now, just goes to a dead white screen. Said he didnt want to toss it in the trash or dump it on goodwill because they might just toos it in the trash. He though a collector could repair it or use it for parts. So I got the 1040STf, external SF354 drive, clean and working SC1224 monitor, all the manual's, mouse (damn things are breeding on me as I have three now,lol), and some software for $25.00. I'll see what I can do to fix the computer later this week or put it in the parts closet.

 

I would still like to focus on the 520STm that I started this thread with as I see how much smaller and lighter it is. By the way, it was jtoubeaux that sold me the moded 520STm. So here is a question for you guys before I start opening everything. If I can not fix the computer, could I swap the internal 720k floppy drive from the 1040STf with the drive inside the SF354 enclosure? Or is the interface adaptor in the SF354 limited in someway to the single sided drive its attached too? Also, I would assume that if I can swap the drives out (again, only if I cant fix the 1040), that the power brick for the 354 would work with the new mod. But just in case, thought I'd check to make sure from those here who have many years on these systems.

 

I guess, I have to ask this as well. Now that I have both the SM124 mono monitor and the SC1224 color monitor, is there a switching device that lets the user pick which monitor to boot too? I dont like the idea of plugging and unplugging the big old dins on these aging plastic based machines. Seems a sure fire way to start cracking things. This would mainly be for the 1040STf if I can fix it, as it can only use a monitor. The 520STm has an svideo port and left/right RCA jacks so I can use a TV on it.

 

If I can fix the 1040 then I will stick the SM124 on it, and get a memory upgrade to bring it up to 4MB and use it for a cubase based MIDI rig (when I can get a copy and dongle for 3.0 or 3.1). I really like the idea of sticking a C64 with a MSSIAH MIDI cart inline with the 1040 . I will also get another set of 1.4 roms and try to upgrade the 520 to 1MB as wells as put the UltraSATAn in it and use it as a game rig. I dont know where that will place the SC1224, but I'm guessing it will stick with the 1040.

[MagnaFarce]

If you want to get rid of one of those mice I'll gladly buy one off of you. Right now I'm still using an Atari trak-ball as a mouse.

[MrMaddog]

 

I guess, I have to ask this as well. Now that I have both the SM124 mono monitor and the SC1224 color monitor, is there a switching device that lets the user pick which monitor to boot too? I dont like the idea of plugging and unplugging the big old dins on these aging plastic based machines. Seems a sure fire way to start cracking things. This would mainly be for the 1040STf if I can fix it, as it can only use a monitor. The 520STm has an svideo port and left/right RCA jacks so I can use a TV on it.

 

 

You want to look for a "Monitor Master" box which lets you switch between a monochrome & color Atari monitor. Just know when you swtich while the ST is on, it'll reset itself to switch modes so save your work before doing so...

[ParanoidLittleMan]

"could I swap the internal 720k floppy drive from the 1040STf with the drive inside the SF354 enclosure? Or is the interface adaptor in the SF354 limited in someway to the single sided drive its attached too? "

No single sided limit of adapter (floppy controller) in all this. Double sided will work fine.

[Kodai]

I managed to get the 1040STf working. After a tear down, I wipped out the jewlers loop and noticed a problem with one of the TOS ROM's. The U5 ROM pin one was broken. It was in a jagged shap and didnt look like it had been stressed from pulling. My guess is the head from the PSU being over it, caused thermal wear and tear over the years. So I nabbed the old ROM's from the broken 520ST I started the thread off with, and replaced them. It booted just fine. Of course, I'm still waiting on a set of GEM language disks to come in the mail to try and load something other than just empty desktop.

 

If you want to get rid of one of those mice I'll gladly buy one off of you. Right now I'm still using an Atari trak-ball as a mouse.

 

Well, I found one of the mice to not track left. Odd that it can track right, but not left. That leaves me with two mice and two machines. I will try and repair it. Its also cruddy feeling (sticky cord, and crusty feeling plastic body), with heavy yellowing. So if I cant fix it, I will want it for parts. But if I come accross another one, I will be more than happy to come back here and let you know about it or better I will PM you.

 

BTW, I like the idea of using an Atari trackball in place of the mouse. I have one for my 2600 and I will have to pull it out and give it a try. Thanks for the idea. ^_^

You want to look for a "Monitor Master" box which lets you switch between a monochrome & color Atari monitor. Just know when you swtich while the ST is on, it'll reset itself to switch modes so save your work before doing so...

 

Great news. I will start looking for one after the holidays (funds tide up in to many things right now). Nice to know about the reboot in switching the monitors.

 

"could I swap the internal 720k floppy drive from the 1040STf with the drive inside the SF354 enclosure? Or is the interface adaptor in the SF354 limited in someway to the single sided drive its attached too? "

No single sided limit of adapter (floppy controller) in all this. Double sided will work fine.

 

Also great news. Now I have to figure out if the internal 1040STf drive is 720k or 360k. Again, I am waiting on the language disks to come in before I can boot either machine to a propper desktop and start checking things out. I hope that I can use a USB floppy on my PC to drop files onto ST formatted disks. I found a little program for the ST line called SYSINFO that should give me all the info I need on the rigs, but I will have to use the USB drive to get it on a disk. So I will wait for the language disks to get here and then format a disk and try it with my PC to drop that SYSINFO.PRG on there.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

1040stf should have double sided drive. I'm not sure can SYSINFO inform you about what type disk is inserted. For sure it can not say is drive single or double sided.

But you can check it by doing simple tests - trying to run/read something from single and then from double sided floppy - properly filled.

 

USB floppy drive is pretty much limited. You will be able to use it only with 720KB floppies - what means 2 sided. Maybe it will work with 360K - single sided. The point is that USB floppy drives usually support only very regular PC floppy formats - so 1.44MB, then 720KB , then 360KB. Some support only first one.

 

You don't need to wait on language disks, if have some empty floppies. Can format in Windows XP with command prompt: format a: /t:80 /n:9

It will produce 720K, so DS floppy. Copy on it some textual file, at least 10KB, and try to read on Atari.

[Charlie_]

This link is becoming handy

 

Here are language disks.

 

http://www.atari.org/services/systemdisks.php

 

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express

[Kodai]

1040stf should have double sided drive. I'm not sure can SYSINFO inform you about what type disk is inserted. For sure it can not say is drive single or double sided.

But you can check it by doing simple tests - trying to run/read something from single and then from double sided floppy - properly filled.

 

USB floppy drive is pretty much limited. You will be able to use it only with 720KB floppies - what means 2 sided. Maybe it will work with 360K - single sided. The point is that USB floppy drives usually support only very regular PC floppy formats - so 1.44MB, then 720KB , then 360KB. Some support only first one.

 

You don't need to wait on language disks, if have some empty floppies. Can format in Windows XP with command prompt: format a: /t:80 /n:9

It will produce 720K, so DS floppy. Copy on it some textual file, at least 10KB, and try to read on Atari.

 

I know that it was rare, but there were indeed some 360k 1040f's made at first. I know that they were only in N. America and they were the first production run of the 1040f's. Being that this looks to be an older 1040f from '86, I have to assume that it may indeed be one of those rare versions. I have a good stack of 720k DD floppies (that I've had since the mid 80's) that work just fine in external USB drives, as I've already checked. I was just unsure if a modern USB floppy drive under Windows 7 would write data to a 720k that an Atari ST could read.

 

 

This link is becoming handy

 

Here are language disks.

 

http://www.atari.org...systemdisks.php

 

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express

 

Thanks for the link. While I already bought a set, I will go ahead and try those files tonight or tomorrow and see what happens. I dont think I will get the set I bought until after christmas, and I dont want to wait that long.

[tjlazer]

I have a unique Atari 520STfm that has 1MB ram and 360k internal drive!