What can a seller do to protect themselves on ebay?

[RickR]

Please let us know how this ends. And I really hope they decide in your favor. I agree that this buyer is trying to scam you.

[Hyper_Eye]

eBay decided in favor of the buyer. When his package arrives eBay will automatically transfer the refund to him. I won't even be able to verify the contents first. I guess your two options are to either willingly participate in a scam against you or allow eBay to and have your account penalized. If I receive the package and I find that the item inside is not the one I originally sent or there are games or accessories missing I can appeal. If eBay decides the appeal in my favor then they will return the money and eat the cost. That essentially means that if this buyer is pulling a scam he has done so successfully. I called them and talked to them on the phone for quite a while. They said they understand what I was trying to do, that I was properly engaging in dialog to resolve the issue, that the request I made was reasonable, and that this is how they have to decide in these cases. I think it's a shame. They did tell me that after review it will be easy for me to keep my account from being penalized as I was engaging the buyer properly. I suppose I'll see how this goes. I'm pretty disappointed but this is the result I expected.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Hyper_Eye

[RickR]

Wow. Stupid ebay. Sorry Hyper_Eye. I hope it works out in your favor.

[eightbit]

The problem with ebay is this exactly.

Invest in plenty of lube...eBay is a cesspool nowadays.

 

Exactly. I recently had almost the same goings on with a Marantz amp I sold. Guy said it came in and did not work at all. I know it worked fine. It was my primary amp for years. He forced a chargeback and returned the item. THANKFULLY it arrived undamaged, and of course it worked fine when it came back. He simply was not satisfied with it for one reason or another. He also left me a nasty feedback to boot.

 

I have been using ebay since 1998. I have had ups and downs here and there with buyers pulling crap, but never as frequent as recently. For this and other issues I have experienced in only the past year, I refuse to use ebay for anything. I will not buy anything on ebay anymore, even if it is something I am looking for. I'd rather wait and hunt just like the old days. As for selling, done there as well. The really sad part is how ebay does nothing to protect the seller. The buyer can buy something from you (ie: a game), swap it with their crappier copy, and ship that copy back to you saying it is not what they expected. How can you prove or disprove this? Fact is, you can't. And they will not help you in the least. People say "document everything, take pictures, etc", but this is BS. The buyer can say that they received a lesser item than what you took pictures of or advertised. How are you going to combat it? It is one word against another.

 

Ebay will not destroy my hobby. I will not let it. So, no ebay for me at least. We are all better off selling inside the confines of places in which the community sticks together. Right HERE that is.

Edited December 19, 2012 by eightbit

[Andromeda Stardust]

As a buyer, I only had to file one claim on eBay, but it failed. Basically, Pedro games pulled a fast one on me buy advertising a Tengen Tetris CIB at $60 while other CIB copies were selling for I already had a cart only Tengen Tetris which had a label that was in pristine condition; the "CIB" copy had ugly yellow writing on the cart and slight corner peeling on the label, which I figured I could carefully remove with thinner and toothbrush. The box was also slightly crumpled, but that was okay for me. I knew I was getting a slightly non-pristine CIB copy of Tengen Tetris, but at least I could complete my game, and sell the "ugly" cart with the yellow writing. I don't normally collect CIB, but I wanted this game complete, specifically for the rich history behind it. Unfortunately, I overlooked one tiny detail when I ordered: the NES manual was the purple-colored licensed Tetris manual instead of the red-colored unlicensed Tengen manual. I was so mad when i opened the manual and saw the Nintendo "Seal of Quality." I attempted to contact the seller claiming that his description of "CIB" was misleading in that the manual was for the wrong version of Tetris. I filed a claim on the basis that the seller's description was misleading because the instruction manual was the wrong version. His response was that "picture matches the item". When I filed the claim, he started cussing me out in his emails, being extremely rude and abusive. My claim was eventually denied, primarily because I believe the guy from ebay who reviewed my case didn't understand that there are two dramatically different versions of NES Tetris games and manuals. Ultimately, the verdict was the image was of the item I received, regardless of what the description said. He was still being very deceptive by including an obviously "wrong" manual and declaring it "Complete in Box" or "Cart Instruction Box". Once my claim was lost, he got negative feedback for his deceptive actions. I even told him several times prior to leaving feedback that i would leave positive feedback if he would permit a return. He sent me a lemon and he knwe it. A reputable seller would not have included a wrong item and labeled it as "complete". Either way, I got stuck with a lemon, and a few months later, Pedrogames website and his associated Pedro! eBay account are gone now. He also got listed in the "Hall of Shame" on nintendoage. Tengen Tetris cart only is now commonly going for $60 and up now, so I may at some point resell the scribbled Tengen Tetris cart Pedro sold me and eat the loss. I'm keeping my original art as it's in better condition and has sentimental value since it is the rarest game I've ever found in the wild, and as a relatively new collector, I was so ecstatic when I found it in 2004.

 

I just wanted to include one counter example from personal experience in which an obviously deceptive and disrespectful seller won a dispute.

[Hyper_Eye]

I understand the issue that you are describing but I would not call it a counter-example. When someone places a winning bid on your auction you have no form of transaction review before the fact. A buyer won my auction who had great feedback and a large amount of it though his account has been inactive for a few years before this. There isn't anything I could have spotted. I didn't make a mistake. On the other hand my auction was in no way misleading. The items I shipped are the items pictured and described in my auction. The issue I am describing is one in which eBay enables buyers to steal sellers merchandise through their buyer-weighted refund system. This has been rampant in laptop and modern console sales. This is something eBay needs to crack down on because sellers like me can't absorb these losses. In your case the picture was there. Given a more careful evaluation of the item as pictured you could have seen that the manual was the incorrect one and thus didn't match what you consider (and any collector would consider) to be necessary to meet the CIB description. You made a mistake. That doesn't mean the seller didn't knowingly list the item incorrectly but the item you received was the item pictured. So while I am not saying that you did not have a valid claim, I think that the issues we are discussing are in a totally different category from each other and thus are not comparable. Ultimately you could have won your case if you simply lied and said the cartridge didn't work. Then eBay would have decided the same way they did in the case I am dealing with. Sometimes the truth is not the winning argument but some of us stick to it anyway because we are honest people. I'll stick to honesty and lose over the alternative any day.

[5200Fanatic]

I've been a buyer on eBay and had good experiences but accumulated so much stuff over the years of collecting I started selling some of it off. I am very, very careful in packing consoles. I had one buyer not pay for a new Dreamcast, and then I filed a resolution issue with eBay, and only then he paid for the console. The when he got it, he posted feedback that the Dreamcast box was damaged when it arrived due to bad packaging. The pictures I posted I clearly has a snapshot of one of the corners of the box being slightly bent in. I then asked him for a picture and description of the damage, and he sent nothing. I called eBay and they said the best I could do was to post a reply that the item was fine when I sent it.

 

There are other examples - people backing out, excuses, questions upon questions, but since money is donated with every sale I do, I tell myself that it's better to go this way than just throw it out where nobody benefits.

 

A couple of things you could do is have the buyer pay for any return postage - that may scare off some of them. Also, keep track of the serial number of the console in case they try send a different one back. If I see that a person hasn't paid in four days and won't respond to my emails, I assume they had a change of heart or weren't serious and send a cancellation request, and every time the buyer has accepted. Legitimate buyers pay quickly, those who aren't don't. Unfortunately, it is better in my experience to cancel the transaction when you get a bad vibe, and re-list than to file a complaint where maybe they eventually pay and then post bad feedback. It's not right, but as others have said the system is set up for buyers.

[Philflound]

I've been doing Ebay buys and sells for 14 years now. I've been through the best and worst. I still have problems, but for the most part with all my activity, things work out. I just recently sold a Shrek stuffed toy for $11.99 shipped. I accidentally left the red $1.49 price sticker on it which is what I paid. The guy leaves me a positive fb but states "It would have been nice it the $1.49 price tag had been removed.". He emailed me saying he felt like he was slapped in the face because I left the sticker on it. After the $4 fees/shipping cost (gave him free shipping), along with the cost of tape, ink, paper, etc. I made about $6 profit. I explained all this to him. He felt like because I found this item for $1.49, that he would be able to. I bought these 2 years ago and they are from 2004. I didn't even mention the gas to drive to the store I bought them. I also had the hindsight to buy a few hundred of the 4 different Shrek dolls. I've had to store them and sell them slowly over the past 2 years. Out of 75 Shreks, I still think I have about 8 left. What these people don't realize is that if I had to pay more, they would have to pay more for one, and I'm the only one with the item on Ebay with the lowest price if there were others. He didn't praise me for getting it out fast, pulling one that didn't have a creased tag, or the fact the doll was in nice condition. He found the fault, which I don't consider a fault at all. I asked him if he begrudged the person finding a million dollar painting at a garage sale for $5 or the old man who bought the 1st Superman for 10 cents and then selling it for over a million dollars. He's making too much profit. He should have sold it for only 25 cents. The guy was an idiot.

 

Another bought an Elmo bean bag and wrote, "Shipping was outrageous but I'm still satisfied with my purchase." Thing is I offer 1st class shipping as an option on this item. They chose priority mail. I charge exact shipping plus either $1.50 or $1.75 handling cost. Depends on the mood I'm in or what was set up in Turbo Lister. Ever since Ebay started taking 12% of my shipping cost, that averages close to another $1 of my total sale cost I have to cough up. Paypal already takes 3% of the total cost including the shipping price.

When I bid on an item, I calculate the shipping cost as part of what I'm spending and put that towards my limit. If I find shipping is too high, I either contact the seller and try to negotiate or just don't bid on the item.

 

Another person just bought the Dragon doll from Shrek. They complained there was a loose thread and the eyelashes weren't perfect. I told them all the Dragons have a loose thread here and there and eyelashes aren't perfect. I said they were made in China, what do you expect? They want a full refund. I told them to send it back. I then blocked their account.

 

1. Anybody gives you a problem, block them immediately. Don't even tell them you're doing it.

2. Give accurate descriptions. That include stating, "there is NO Damage" or "slight wear" or "No significant damage" in the description. I write all minor flaws on unique items if necessary.

3. Add insurance charges to your handling cost if item is breakable or expensive. These are the items people will try and defraud you the most.

4. Pack well. It sounds like you did. But make sure you use peanuts, styrofoam, bubble wrap, and if newspaper, get a paper shredder as it will make them more fluffy and supportive.

5. Feedback is useless unless you are the buyer, where you can see the seller's faults. Read what the buyer wrote. Also, as a seller, if you get bad feedback, respond to it. Tell your side of the story in the 80 characters allowed. If this guy leaves you negative, respond with "buyer sent back a different item and claimed it was mine. Look at all my other positive fb for my past xp". You may be stuck with the negative, but at least people who actually do look at your fb will see you are an honest seller.

6. It is recorded every time transactions don't work out and money is returned. Though this guy is a scammer, he can't keep doing it or Ebay will see he has continually tried to pull a fast one and ban his account. Not that it helps you, but at least people like this eventually get caught.

7. Don't judge people with low or no fb. I sell to lots of people who are new to ebay or relatively new. I try to help them out if they have questions or make mistakes.

8. Put something in the description about, "ask ALL questions prior to making purchase" and don't give money back return policy. I give no return policy. I don't qualify any longer for the 20% seller discount, and if I did, I couldn't maintain a next day shipping policy regardless. Also write, please see photos for details.

9. You get 12 pictures for free, use them. If items are cheap, don't bother, but anything expensive, definitely get all angles. Zoom in on any damaged areas.

10. Put in your description if you want, "comes from smoke free, pet free environment" if you have no pets and don't smoke. That sometimes increases bids.

 

In the end, use your judgment. I began 3 years ago writing an E-book on buying/selling collectibles and had included sections on descriptions, packing, and shipping among others. Thing is, I never got anywhere near finishing the book. Maybe eventually. I actually used to sell a document about selling on Ebay, but that was about 8-10 years ago and some of the info I had in it became outdated. There will always be honest sellers and buyers on Ebay, the majority of people are. There will always be the couple of people on there scamming you or giving you a hard time about something of your listing, policy, cost, or item. You'll just have to deal with them. What I didn't mention is why I don't qualify for the 20% discount. It's those 5 star ratings. I get assholes always leaving me a 1 or 2 on the shipping cost and even though my rating is like 4.85 on average, the count is too high at any given time. Also note that even though he sends back the items, he has to eat the cost to do so. Some people would rather have a partial refund rather than going through the whole sending back and paying for shipping thing. If they insist on you paying for shipping, tell them that you were being nice even taking back the item in the first place since you don't offer a return policy and that Ebay's policy is that the buyer pays to ship back items.

 

Sorry this is long and I can write a ton more, but you should get the gist of things. If you have any questions, contact me personally or just respond here and I'll do my best to help you. I've been doing this too long. I personally have put up a good 25,000+ items over the years.

 

Phil

Edited December 23, 2012 by Philflound

[Tempest]

This is why I only sell on AA or DP. Sure I probably don't get quite as much as I would on eBay, but I don't have to deal with crap like this. eBay has become more than useless these days.

[Philflound]

Oh, I forgot to add one thing to the list.

 

11. If you are selling fixed price (I think) and don't have an ebay store, put Immediate Payment Required for paypal.

 

I have the store, and use this option on all items. I got fed up with people purchasing items and not paying for them. Then when you go to get your credit, they'll wait till the last minute to pay you and leave you some bad feedback for even suggesting that you sent a non-paying bidder alert against them. The only drawback to this is Ebay doesn't know how to handle combining more than one listing with the shipping. Many times I have to refund the money and send a combined invoice. But if the buyer was willing to pay full shipping on multiple items, they'll understand that you're helping them out by giving them combined shipping. Other times, I tell people to contact me with the specific items they want to purchase and then remove the immediate payment required from those items so I can send a combined invoice to the buyer. To get around this, offer free shipping on items and you don't have to worry about refunding anything.

 

The problem I always had with free shipping is that I have to increase the cost of the item to offset the shipping cost. If the item is not flat rate, like a box Atari game which doesn't fit in the small flat rate box, shipping to NY for me is like $5 versus like $6.25 to CA. Also, free shipping isn't available for international and I already charge the higher price for the item with the built in shipping cost, so the international buyer has to pay even more for the same item I would have sold cheaper if I didn't have free shipping.

 

Phil

 

PS: One option you may want to look into is Ecrater. That site is totally free. No listing fee, no sale fee. Only paypal and then you can even take money orders or checks. If someone doesn't pay me immediately, I contact them and ask about the payment. If they don't respond or change their mind, you can delete the transaction completely so it doesn't even exist. This way, they can't leave you any type of feedback.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Philflound

[Philflound]

BTW, Hyper. Can you do me a favor and tell me what user IDs this guy has so I can block him also. I don't want to deal with people like this. Thanks.

 

Phil

[+wood_jl]

BTW, Hyper. Can you do me a favor and tell me what user IDs this guy has so I can block him also. I don't want to deal with people like this. Thanks.

 

Please TELL US ALL, so we can block him! Thanks!

[icemanxp300]

Thing is I offer 1st class shipping as an option on this item. They chose priority mail.

 

Phil

 

Why would you even offer priority when you can ship it 1st class? There is absolutely no reason to ship priority over 1st class. The only option given should be 1st class. Just my opinion.

[Philflound]

There is a bunch of benefits for priority.

 

1. They get it faster.

2. You can't ship anything 1st class greater than 13oz domestically.

3. You get free priority boxes, tape, and labels Paying for envelopes or boxes and packing tape cost too much.

 

Anytime I do free shipping though, I ship 1st class to save me money. The only exception I have to this is a Jabba the Hutt ceramic ornament that weighs about 14oz and is breakable, so I put it in a nice cube priority box.

 

Phil

Edited December 24, 2012 by Philflound

[icemanxp300]

There is a bunch of benefits for priority.

 

1. They get it faster.

2. You can't ship anything 1st class greater than 13oz domestically.

3. You get free priority boxes, tape, and labels Paying for envelopes or boxes and packing tape cost too much.

 

Anytime I do free shipping though, I ship 1st class to save me money. The only exception I have to this is a Jabba the Hutt ceramic ornament that weighs about 14oz and is breakable, so I put it in a nice cube priority box.

 

Phil

 

1. I find this to be untrue. 1st class ships just as fast, sometimes faster than priority for me.

2. if it's over 13oz then you can't offer 1st class and that is irrelevant to what I am talking about (international is a completely different story)

3. I disagree boxes/padded envelopes that will be used for 1st class items are so small they are very cheap (cheaper than the postage difference) and in the case of a padded envelope the cost of the envelope actually saves you $$ over using a box for the decreased weight.

 

It's my opinion that any item that is 13 oz or under should be shipped 1st class, priority should not be an option. That is what I was getting at.

 

On a side topic I have been having sellers ship me packages parcel when it's actually cheaper for them to go priority. It drives me nuts, just because the only option they offer is parcel (they are under the assumption it's cheaper) I have to take it even though I pay a priority price which is cheaper than the parcel price when you figure in the pp online shipping discount that doesn't apply to parcel.

[Philflound]

Well at least I don't get complaints about stuffing a boxed Atari game in an envelope and having it crushed. I'd rather have happy customers. I agree with people who don't look at the prices where parcel post is sometimes more costly yet they send it that way anyway. I also don't like the term "expedited" that Ebay sticks next to my shipping cost. People think this is like shipping the next day and then bitch at me because I ship it within 3 business days which is what I state in all my listings. I've also been having problems with the post office losing things lately. As for cost of boxes, I've been buying rather small boxes for like 75 cents each in Walmart. I can't see how that is better than getting free boxes. Because all it does is have me raise my handling cost on 1st class. I try and get free boxes from retail stores when they are stocking shelves, but many cases that is late at night and I'm not out. I've shipped no less than 5000 packages since I started, and have had very few complaints overall.

 

Phil

[icemanxp300]

I was just saying even w/the cost of the box/tape and what not depending on location 1st class is cheaper. For me to send a 13 oz package to my same zip code it's $1.54 cheaper and for me to send from NY to CA it's $2.74 cheaper. I rarely buy boxes myself. I go to Walmart at night and grab the small deodorant/soap boxes and what not they they toss out from stocking shelves and use them.

 

I have on occasion purchased the 6x6x6 walmart boxes but I prefer to use the free ones, plus the walls are thinner and weigh less. I usually grab a pile when I go.

 

I deal w/people online as well and find it much easier to eliminate hassles.

 

I'm not trying to bash you or anything just stating it's generally cheaper for 1st class and I know people will complain over $1. This is why I generally add in the cost to my items and do BIN only w/free shipping and mark it as standard. Then when it comes faster whatever way I choose they have no complaints.

 

I have shipped priority over 1st class in the past for convenience w/ a small flat rate but then I just get mad when I look up the rates later and see I gave the PO at least $2 more for a box.

[Zwackery]

I do not accept people talking about the cost of boxes, packing materials, gas to drive to the post office, and so on. What about the cost of your Internet connection and the electricity you are using? Sheesh. How much does one have to micromanage expenses to justify inflating prices to cover the cost of using a service like eBay (especially in violation of stipulated terms of service)? The bottom line for me is this: would you even be selling this stuff, or reaching such a broad audience, without eBay?

 

I use eBay and pay the fees, and I have no problems doing so because I wouldn't be engaged in this type of commercial activity without eBay's existence.

 

Also, as I recycle boxes and packing material, I never charge people for such things (even the tape I buy at Big Lots), and as the PO will come straight to my house and pick up boxes for shipment, I have no need to drive to the PO, much less grouse about it.

[Philflound]

Well that's great for you. I've been unemployed now for 3 1/2 years and besides the little money I've made part time working as a substitute teacher, Ebay pulls in the majority of my money and it isn't that much in the scheme of things. I need to cut costs wherever I can and if you don't like people talking about it, then don't read this thread. If I had my $50k+ job that I had with full benefits that I used to have a few years ago, maybe I wouldn't be such a stickler for every penny I earn and have to give away. So don't go condemning people who try and save money and talk about it. I'm just trying to survive.

 

I also don't know who you're talking about saving gas going to the post office. I walk the 4 blocks to the local post office with my packages unless they're too big or too many. I don't see people bitch about the informercials charging $8.95 postage and handling and then paying an additional $8.95 for getting a "2nd one free" when the item arrives and the total postage costs like $5 for everything. Those infomercial companies are making money on the "handling fee" but no one seems to care about it and just pay for it. Problem is that there is no feedback system for those types of companies. You see the item. You see the total cost. You are willing to pay that total cost. Then you get your product. I hide nothing. You see my price. You see my shipping. You see my total cost. If you are willing to pay that total cost, don't bitch about it. You bitch about it, then I tell you my life and how I've been struggling to make ends meet. If you don't like it, don't buy from me.

 

Phil

[Zwackery]

Yes, it is great for me.

 

Unless a mod chooses to intervene for inappropriate comments, I will read and comment as I choose. You are of course free to take your own advice and ignore threads you do not like.

[Hyper_Eye]

Well I got the package back. It included all of the carts and accessories I sent as well as a busted up console. You can hear a ton of things rattling around inside. When I opened it up I found a rusted bug filled mess. It's disgusting. I will attach some pictures. Unfortunately I have no proof that it isn't the unit I sent so I issued the refund so I could recover my auction fees and retain my good seller status. I'm going to just put this out of my mind and move on. I will pair everything with a different unit and sell it again. Hopefully it will be to someone honest this time.

[boxpressed]

Wow, so the buyer switched the busted unit for your good one after all? What a sad and pitiful act.

[Hyper_Eye]

Well I was able to swap the top onto a unit that had no label so this won't be much of a loss to me in the end. It just cost me time and a lot of frustration.

[Philflound]

Can you tell us his Ebay ID so I can block him? I don't want to deal with the cretin. Also, I think you mentioned a 2nd ID if I'm correct. Can you post that one? I think everyone on here who deals on Ebay would appreciate this.

Thanks.

Phil

[cOLeCoHiTMan]

Were the dings in the eBay picture on the top of this one?

 

He could have dropped it off a table himself and blamed it on you... just no way to know without picture proof.

 

As for markings on the systems.. I clean them inside and out.. so putting a mark inside would be what I would do as well to prevent swapping issues. If someone marked a system outside, i'd be magic erasing that stuff off immediately!