N64 Dual Stick Controller...best thing ever!

[xDragonWarrior]

 

 

Goldeneye/Perfect Weapon with 2 sticks=best thing ever!.If only i had enough money to have him make me one i would.What do you think,good mod or not?

[Satoshi Matrix]

That's certinally a winner in terms of RAW COOLNESS, but it isn't exactly practicle.

 

For far less money, time, effort, skill etc you could get rafnet's GameCube to N64 adapter that lets you use the GC's twin sticks with games like GoldenEye. Oh, and it also has a dpad.

 

Edited April 7, 2013 by Satoshi Matrix

[onthinice]

I like the stock N64 controller. That one is cool!

[Seob]

Look at this version, U do need big hands.

 

http://www.damngeeky...ade-gaming.html

[onthinice]

That is a controller!!!!!

[godslabrat]

Never understood the hate for the N64 controller. By far my favorite controller of any 3D system.

[xDragonWarrior]

Never understood the hate for the N64 controller. By far my favorite controller of any 3D system.

 

I don't hate it it just could of been made better(the stick breaks easy)

[Satoshi Matrix]

Never understood the hate for the N64 controller. By far my favorite controller of any 3D system.

 

I don't hate the N64 trident, but I do think it's a poor design that belongs in the prototyping phase and not as something fully fleshed out. I can't imagine the N64 controller changed much, if at all, since the Ultra 64 was first planned. Nintendo's essentially like "lets make an SNES controller with a center module!" and somehow that idea stuck.

 

The thing is that the N64 controller is essentially the Super Mario 64 controler. It works beautifully for that game, but for anyone who has ever studied consumer design or has a little common sense, the N64 controller is a design disaster for several reasons:

 

It's a hand-held device that doesn't take the fact that humans only have two hands into account - Human beings are a bipedal species with two arms and two opposable thumbs, and two index fingers. These four digits are what are used to play videogames with - the remaining fingers simply hold the controller in place. Nintendo's design assumes humans have three arms to be able to manipulate all the controls.

 

Since this is obviously not the case, as a direct result the D-pad and L button almost always rendered redunant and ignored because they can't effectively be used 90% of the time. And likewise, the 10% of games that DO use the D-pad and L button subsiquently render the Z and Control Stick redunant.

 

The single alaog stick wasn't forward thinking - it can only control one axis, which means digital buttons need to be used to control the other, or have it automatic. This almost always results in ackward game design. To be fair, the Saturn was guilty of this first, but the Saturn wasn't BUILD around the idea of a single stick - it was built around a single D-pad. It was Sony who reconized this flawed design first with their Dual Analog Controller that lead to the DualShock, and nearly every controller designed since.

 

The C-Buttons are too small in comparison to the B and A buttons. Ever try to play a six button fighting game on the N64? The size difference of the buttons makes using it awkward.

 

Long term deteriration of the analog stick - I'm not sure if Nintendo had any foresight in this regard at all, but it's no secret that N64 controllers age almost as badly as Atari 5200 controllers do. Analog sticks break, become lose, unresponsive and to boot, the analog stick is not comfertable to use.

 

The N64 controller is truly a design nightmare, but is it an awful controller? Well, no, there are far worse offenders. But it IS easily Nintendo's worst controller, and you're almost always better off using a Hori Mini Pad 64 or a GameCube controller with Rafnet's adapter, or some third party pad. But because Nintendo is the king of D-pads, any game that uses the dpad and L button and ignores the analog stick and Z is best played with the N64 pad.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Satoshi Matrix

[godslabrat]

It's a hand-held device that doesn't take the fact that humans only have two hands into account - Human beings are a bipedal species with two arms and two opposable thumbs, and two index fingers. These four digits are what are used to play videogames with - the remaining fingers simply hold the controller in place. Nintendo's design assumes humans have three arms to be able to manipulate all the controls.

 

Since this is obviously not the case, as a direct result the D-pad and L button almost always rendered redunant and ignored because they can't effectively be used 90% of the time. And likewise, the 10% of games that DO use the D-pad and L button subsiquently render the Z and Control Stick redunant.

 

To be fair, it was never the intent to give players access to all the controls at once. The concept was that different games could use different layouts (right/center, right/left, left/center.) I even found that when I held the controller in the left/right configuration, I was still able to hit the Z trigger if I wanted to. That's pretty slick.

 

The N64 controller is truly a design nightmare, but is it an awful controller? Well, no, there are far worse offenders. But it IS easily Nintendo's worst controller, and you're almost always better off using a Hori Mini Pad 64 or a GameCube controller with Rafnet's adapter, or some third party pad. But because Nintendo is the king of D-pads, any game that uses the dpad and L button and ignores the analog stick and Z is best played with the N64 pad.

 

What I can't stand about the Gamecube controller is that there's no way to really get my thumb onto the d-pad in a hurry, the left handle is in the way. This issue is completely avoided on the N64.

 

Definitely like your point in saying that the controller is first and foremost a Mario 64 controller. Will have to think on that some more!

Edited April 8, 2013 by godslabrat

[Tr3vor]

I think adding on a second analog stick to the N64 controller is useless since the games were programmed having one joystick and 4 digital C buttons. Its like using the 3DS's circle pad while playing a DS game. Sure you're using an analog stick, but the input to the game is still digital, it makes absolutely 0 difference.

 

I don't have a problem with n64 controllers, except the deterioration of the analog stick. I blame Mario Party for that. I have one shitty controller for mario party style games, and 2 controllers with very good joysticks for stuff like Goldeneye. In games like Dr. Mario 64, I think the D-Pad is a must. There is no way that you are using a joystick for that. I don't think there is much improvement to be had using a second anolog stick on 3rd person action games, which from what I've seen is most of the n64 library anyway.

 

That problem isn't exclusive to the N64, other controllers have deteriorating joysticks too. Have you been to a Walmart or McDonalds lately? every controller hooked up to a demo unit is pretty much fucked up. My Game Boy Color's rubber buttons have worn down since I used to play it so much (need to find a broken GBC so I can replace those rubber things).

[Satoshi Matrix]

To be fair, it was never the intent to give players access to all the controls at once.

 

Therein is the problem and exactly my point why the N64 controller fails one of the fundimentals of intelligent design.

 

The concept was that different games could use different layouts (right/center, right/left, left/center.)

Yes -meaning you're holding a controller with large sections of it useless at any one point in time, like an Atari Jaguar controller that doesn't actually use the keypad.

 

What I can't stand about the Gamecube controller is that there's no way to really get my thumb onto the d-pad in a hurry, the left handle is in the way. This issue is completely avoided on the N64.

 

Wait, WHAT? The GameCube left stick and the dpad spacing is MUCH closer than the spacing of the dpad and the ananolg stick, and that's setting aside the fact that you need to take your entire hand off the middle part to use the dpad rather than jump move your thumb. If you truly do have a problem moving from the left stick to the dpad on the GC controller, you must also have the same issue with Xbox and Playstation controllers. How somehow the worst offender in that regard - the N64 - gets a free pass by you is baffling to me. Can you elaborite what you mean?

 

I don't have a problem with n64 controllers, except the deterioration of the analog stick. I blame Mario Party for that.

 

It isn't caused by overuse. My N64 controllers all suffer from the same problem to some degree, and I've never owned or even played a single Mario Party game ever. Or Smash Bros, or any of the other common games that people blame for destroying N64 controllers. I've played games like Star Fox 64, Mario Kart 64 and Zelda quite a bit, but non of the go nuts on the controller to win games and STILL I have the same issues. It's some design flaw in the N64 controller itself, not overuse.

[Tr3vor]

It isn't caused by overuse. My N64 controllers all suffer from the same problem to some degree, and I've never owned or even played a single Mario Party game ever. Or Smash Bros, or any of the other common games that people blame for destroying N64 controllers. I've played games like Star Fox 64, Mario Kart 64 and Zelda quite a bit, but non of the go nuts on the controller to win games and STILL I have the same issues. It's some design flaw in the N64 controller itself, not overuse.

 

Then all controllers have a design flaw, since every controller gets worn.

[Satoshi Matrix]

No, only all N64 controllers, Atari 5200 controllers and Famiclone controllers. Outside of those, none fail as routinly for all. My 2600 controllers from 30 years ago still work fine, as do my Famicom controllers that are only slightly newer. I have never had any issue with any other controller with thumbsticks either - Saturn 3D pad, GameCube, Xbox, PS1, PS2, 360, PS3, Wii, it doesn't matter. Only the N64, 5200 and Famiclone controllers have ever given me problems.

 

Of course, public controllers will have taken abnormal levels of abuse. Same with those DS stations. The touchscreen will look like hell even though the DS screen is so scratch resistant. If you say your GBC's inputs are "worn down", they probably just need cleaning with isopropanol and pushed back into position. Is IS possible for them to ware out, but they can be refublished easily and 9 times out of 10 they're not worn out, just dirty. Try taking your system apart and cleaning it not with water, but 90% or higher pure isopropanol.

[godslabrat]

Wait, WHAT? The GameCube left stick and the dpad spacing is MUCH closer than the spacing of the dpad and the ananolg stick, and that's setting aside the fact that you need to take your entire hand off the middle part to use the dpad rather than jump move your thumb. If you truly do have a problem moving from the left stick to the dpad on the GC controller, you must also have the same issue with Xbox and Playstation controllers. How somehow the worst offender in that regard - the N64 - gets a free pass by you is baffling to me. Can you elaborite what you mean?

 

Chances are, if I'm using the d-pad on either console, it's for an extended period of time. On the N64, I just grab the left handle and am done with it. On the GameCube, I have to reach across both the left handle and the weird little D-pad peninsula. It's not a matter of distance from the joystick, it's a matter of how long can I effectively play with my hand wrapped around the thickest part of the controller.

Edited April 9, 2013 by godslabrat

[Algus]

I really hate mapping the C buttons to a second control stick. It works great for some games that used the C buttons for looking or moving but other games that used C for utility range for awkward to nearly unplayable.

 

The N64 controller may be a complete trainwreck but it's a trainwreck that I find I prefer for a lot of the N64 games I still like to replay.

 

Did any game ever use left/center? Why would you not want to use the face buttons lol

[onthinice]

Wow! I always had to replace 2600 Atari joysticks. I better list Colecovision and Odyssey 2 as well. Early Genesis and Saturn controllers were the same way. One bright spot was the NES game pad is probably the best for taking abuse.

[SoulBlazer]

Wow! I always had to replace 2600 Atari joysticks. I better list Colecovision and Odyssey 2 as well. Early Genesis and Saturn controllers were the same way. One bright spot was the NES game pad is probably the best for taking abuse.

 

And even the NES controller I had to buy a kit for after a few years. Some of the buttons wore out after heavy use, so I opened the controller up and replaced the pad and the buttons with new third party brightly colored ones.

[Chuck D. Head]

OK, I realize I am going to look like a total N64 fanboy here, but....I have 27 N64 controllers in the house. A quick thumb test reveals that two sticks are completely shot and two more are slightly askew. One more feels like something is grinding inside. The other 22 feel nice, tight and smooth, so I don't think it is accurate to say they all are worn. I obviously have avoided buying ones that were completely shot, but I have not been super picky about them either. Since my game room was set up last year about this time, I have used the same Jungle Green controller to play, including at least a few kid play hours on it every weekend, so obviously the defect in the stick is nowhere near as bad as the 5200 controller. It is possible that later controllers were built better or something; I only have one standard (light grey) controller and it is one of the marginal ones.

 

Aside from quality, and even though I love the system and collect the controllers, I must say the controller is kind of awkward. I didn't feel that way back in the day, but after a long time away from the system, it took a while to get back in the swing of things. Especially compared to the genius of the Gamecube and Playstation controllers, the N64 ones didn't age well. But the complaint really amounts to a few extra minutes getting used to the control scheme for a given game, and then I am in little kid mode again.

 

Not sure if he still has them, but forum member RecycledGamer used to sell N64 controllers modded with the shorter and more durable Gamecube thunb sticks. I have not bought one, but would like to as I have had people say they make a world of difference.

[the.golden.ax]

Too bad I'm stretched so thin on projects and time. $29.95 for one of those GC/N64 adapters

 

The guy that developed that put the schematic up online for free and it shouldn't cost more than a few bucks to make them. I've planned on making them for myself for a long long time (a few years now). That's a high price IMHO for the sum of the parts. Maybe they aren't getting good prices on the extensions etc though. I'd probably use my cache of used donor parts. At least they are available, kudos for that. Still they could probably be done for less.

[akator]

Wow! I always had to replace 2600 Atari joysticks. I better list Colecovision and Odyssey 2 as well. Early Genesis and Saturn controllers were the same way. One bright spot was the NES game pad is probably the best for taking abuse.

 

2600, CV, O2, agreed... however I have Genesis 3-button pads from 1990 that are still working. My SMS and NES pads lasted about 4-5 years before they were completely useless.

[Tr3vor]

Both of my Atari joysticks got open circuits in the cables, one of my NES controllers is very worn to the point that its not fun playing it any more. My Gamecube controller's joystick is starting to not center itself properly. One of my SNES's L and R buttons stopped working (need to find that damn soldering iron), so did my DS's L and R buttons back when I had that, and so did my GBA's shoulder buttons before I lost it and have a different one now.

I've cleaned my GBC like 4 times within the past 2 years, its not because its dirty.

 

every controller has its fault.

[Chuck D. Head]

I have a joystick from the '60s that is still fully functional; even though the play sessions aren't as frequent and don't last as long as they used to. But I have been diligent in cleaning it and protecting it from damage.

[the.golden.ax]

I have a joystick from the '60s that is still fully functional; even though the play sessions aren't as frequent and don't last as long as they used to. But I have been diligent in cleaning it and protecting it from damage.

 

If it's the same model I have (albeit slightly older) there are many cool docking station options as well.

[Chuck D. Head]

If it's the same model I have (albeit slightly older) there are many cool docking station options as well.

 

In theory you are correct, however, for practical purposes I find myself limited to a few basic docking options. My attempts to take advantage of more obscure ports are usually ruled impractical due to the force feedback features of said docking stations.

[Vic George 2K3]

Of the modern game system controllers with analog thumbsticks, I'd say the PlayStation Dual Shock is the winner as far as design and effectiveness, though the Xbox and Xbox 360 controllers come a close second. In fact, my PlayStation 3 has a controller hooked up to it that's similar in layout design to the Xbox 360 controller, and I seem to be using it a whole lot more than the Dual Shock.

 

I think the biggest weakness of the N64 controller is that its thumbstick isn't very durable. Having it be the only thumbstick on a single controller for FPS games like Turok and Goldeneye 007 probably wasn't the best idea, either, what with having to rely on the yellow C buttons for additional movement controls.